WC 2014 Match 22 - Uruguay vs England

[Sutekh]

Radio 5 have also said 'Roy Hodgson's position is being questioned after England crashed out of the world cup last night'

Grrrrrrr

And just what is he meant to do given the tools available I wonder?

Our available defensive options are utterly abysmal at international level so either he has to build a defensive dull boring unit of a team and be castigated for it in the press or he tries to go for a more attacking outlook and risk it defensively (as we've seen).

Transition time, time to rebuild and bring on the younger players and drop the old guard out making them more periphery to the team.

Of course until we get an FA with the bottle to stand up to the PL an introduce a cap on foreigners allowed to start games we're going to be stuck with naff all options - unless the England set up spread their scouting nets into the Championship...

Oh and I think we'll be screwed over on the third game as I bet we'll beat Costa Rica only to see an under strength Italy lose/draw with a Uruguay who are up for it. Cry foul of course but who cares when it's England.

[Whatevs]

if English players are not good enough to play in the prem why is this going to improve by making it less competitive

[Ian Royal]

LOL @ all the gnashing of teeth and wailing.

We were far worse in the last World Cup.

[Whatevs]

Did Ross BArkly actually do anything when he was subbed on in both games. I'm not actually sure but he defo
hasn't been a game changer

[Green]

LOL @ all the gnashing of teeth and wailing.

We were far worse in the last World Cup.

GUO "gnashing of teeth"

[Whatevs]

still fairly hopeful of qualifying. Would like at least one England game to watch with my son that is of importance

[Ian Royal]

if English players are not good enough to play in the prem why is this going to improve by making it less competitive

You get good enough by being given the chance to develop properly and play.

At the moment the first sign of a decent young English player they get snapped up to rot in a big club's reserves, or get overexposed and overpressurised too soon.

Lots of players need a slower progression into PL and International football. Look at Lallana. He's worked his way up the leagues, broke his way into the England set this season and got good experience playing regularly for Saints. And look at Henderson, good at Sunderland, ridiculed at Liverpool, but Rodgers persisted rather than bringing in a new foreign star and he's coming good too.

[TBM]

If Roy gets the boot, its gonna damage all those youngsters he's taken to the WC as its basically saying he picked players that weren't good enough.

I would keep him until the Euro's and if we don't see an improvement, thats when we need to get a Mourinho type in, who knows how to defend and counter attack

[soggy biscuit]

Radio 5 have also said 'Roy Hodgson's position is being questioned after England crashed out of the world cup last night'

Grrrrrrr

And just what is he meant to do given the tools available I wonder?.

Maybe not say we are out of the world cup when we are actually still in it?

[LWJ]

Italy -1 9/5 lumping on #believe

[mr_number]

Did Ross BArkly actually do anything when he was subbed on in both games. I'm not actually sure but he defo
hasn't been a game changer

He did dribble diagonally across the pitch at one point, which seemed to get everyone excited until he pointlessly lost the ball at the end.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Radio 5 have also said 'Roy Hodgson's position is being questioned after England crashed out of the world cup last night'

Grrrrrrr

And just what is he meant to do given the tools available I wonder?

Our available defensive options are utterly abysmal at international level so either he has to build a defensive dull boring unit of a team and be castigated for it in the press or he tries to go for a more attacking outlook and risk it defensively (as we've seen).

Transition time, time to rebuild and bring on the younger players and drop the old guard out making them more periphery to the team.

Of course until we get an FA with the bottle to stand up to the PL an introduce a cap on foreigners allowed to start games we're going to be stuck with naff all options - unless the England set up spread their scouting nets into the Championship....

+1

[AthleticoSpizz]

if English players are not good enough to play in the prem why is this going to improve by making it less competitive

You get good enough by being given the chance to develop properly and play.

At the moment the first sign of a decent young English player they get snapped up to rot in a big club's reserves, or get overexposed and overpressurised too soon.

Lots of players need a slower progression into PL and International football. Look at Lallana. He's worked his way up the leagues, broke his way into the England set this season and got good experience playing regularly for Saints. And look at Henderson, good at Sunderland, ridiculed at Liverpool, but Rodgers persisted rather than bringing in a new foreign star and he's coming good too.

+2

[AthleticoSpizz]

Cmon guys, the FA have spent millions trying to develop England to play like Spain. And this World Cup they finally achieved it!!!!! Job done.

Only the third time (at least) that joke has been made on this thread...

+3

[Whatevs]

if English players are not good enough to play in the prem why is this going to improve by making it less competitive

You get good enough by being given the chance to develop properly and play.

At the moment the first sign of a decent young English player they get snapped up to rot in a big club's reserves, or get overexposed and overpressurised too soon.

Lots of players need a slower progression into PL and International football. Look at Lallana. He's worked his way up the leagues, broke his way into the England set this season and got good experience playing regularly for Saints. And look at Henderson, good at Sunderland, ridiculed at Liverpool, but Rodgers persisted rather than bringing in a new foreign star and he's coming good too.

agree with a lot of that but it's not a convincing argument either way....it may be they're just not good enough, dunno m8

re the point with Lallana that's kind of what i'm driving at. If you're not good enough you'll have to go and play somewhere that you are

re Henderson there have been a number of players who have had one or two good seasons but have been largely shite (Darren Fletcher at Utd etc)

[Royalclapper]

Must admit, it got to the chuckle stage watching that in the boozer last night. It's the disappointment of the just how shit the opposition need to be in order for England to look like winning.

Even when expectations are realistically set and you prepare yourself for a disheartening exit from a tournament, the England team still has an astonishing knack of burrowing itself beneath even the most modest level of hope and excitement.

[stealthpapes]

if English players are not good enough to play in the prem why is this going to improve by making it less competitive

You get good enough by being given the chance to develop properly and play.

At the moment the first sign of a decent young English player they get snapped up to rot in a big club's reserves, or get overexposed and overpressurised too soon.

Lots of players need a slower progression into PL and International football. Look at Lallana. He's worked his way up the leagues, broke his way into the England set this season and got good experience playing regularly for Saints. And look at Henderson, good at Sunderland, ridiculed at Liverpool, but Rodgers persisted rather than bringing in a new foreign star and he's coming good too.

agree with a lot of that but it's not a convincing argument either way....it may be they're just not good enough, dunno m8

re the point with Lallana that's kind of what i'm driving at. If you're not good enough you'll have to go and play somewhere that you are

re Henderson there have been a number of players who have had one or two good seasons but have been largely shite (Darren Fletcher at Utd etc)

I think there is a reasomable argument made there by I-R. Certainly in the second line.

As for the game - England lost a relatively tight game to a team that is generally seen as on the same level/slightly better than England. They are out* because they lost in a similar manner to another team that is generally seen as on the same level/slightly better than England. In the past, this has tended to be avoided until the second round but its essentially just the same as every other fucking tournament.

You either accept this, and don't get all angry when it happens every two years in that predictable tiresome manner, or you say it's not acceptable and work out a long term - I'm talking years and not just changing managers - solution that might take inspiration from other countries that have gone through similar things.

[davidstarkey]

I think there is a reasomable argument made there by I-R. Certainly in the second line.

As for the game - England lost a relatively tight game to a team that is generally seen as on the same level/slightly better than England. They are out* because they lost in a similar manner to another team that is generally seen as on the same level/slightly better than England. In the past, this has tended to be avoided until the second round but its essentially just the same as every other fucking tournament.

You either accept this, and don't get all angry when it happens every two years in that predictable tiresome manner, or you say it's not acceptable and work out a long term - I'm talking years and not just changing managers - solution that might take inspiration from other countries that have gone through similar things.

I think the Uruguay result is more painful than it might have been because the attacking and creative approach taken in the Italy game produced one of the most exciting England performances for years. That performance raised expectations and it wasn't easy to replicate that approach against a team which is wily, experienced and good at hitting you on the counter.

Having said that, there's reason to believe that positive long-term changes are being made in the English game - the new FA youth coaching courses, for example, are supposed to be excellent - and there are exciting, technically skilled young players coming through at various clubs. So there are reasons to be optimistic, although of course we're still a way off the leading nations in terms of their coaching infrastructure and technical education.

[Hoop Blah]

Thanks Paps, having read most of the last 5 or 6 pages I was starting to think everyone was overreacting and failing to see what actually happened.

We are in the proverbial group of death with 3 teams in the top 10 of the FIFA rankings. We've played pretty well (better than the majority of other teams at the tournament so far) for most of the two games but have been undone in both, partly by good play from key players in the opposition but also by some shoddy play of our own.

We could've won both of those games on the balance of play and chances created, and a little help from more balanced referring (it's no excuse but I though last nights ref was appalling) in both games.

Talk of Gerrard or Rooney costing us is daft. Talk of Hodgson being moved on even dafter.

The only thing the country needs to look at is how to improve the defensive side of our game and how to stop the media and sheep-like fans getting carried away and yet again being a negative influence on things.

The majority of this thread is, quite frankly, embarrassing to read.

[LWJ]

Thanks Paps, having read most of the last 5 or 6 pages I was starting to think everyone was overreacting and failing to see what actually happened.

We are in the proverbial group of death with 3 teams in the top 10 of the FIFA rankings. We've played pretty well (better than the majority of other teams at the tournament so far) for most of the two games but have been undone in both, partly by good play from key players in the opposition but also by some shoddy play of our own.

We could've won both of those games on the balance of play and chances created, and a little help from more balanced referring (it's no excuse but I though last nights ref was appalling) in both games.

Talk of Gerrard or Rooney costing us is daft. Talk of Hodgson being moved on even dafter.

The only thing the country needs to look at is how to improve the defensive side of our game and how to stop the media and sheep-like fans getting carried away and yet again being a negative influence on things.

The majority of this thread is, quite frankly, embarrassing to read.

Great post - Massive +1