World Cup 2018

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From Despair To Where?
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Re: World Cup 2018

by From Despair To Where? » 12 Oct 2016 02:34

tmesis
AthleticoSpizz .....a severe dose of realism setting in here.

Whatever happened to our loyal national optimism?

I think it died at least 25 years ago.

The idea that English fans are unrealistically optimistic hasn't really been true for a generation - probably about the time that we started actually seeing foreign football, and realising that despite our success in Europe in the late 70s and early 80s, English football wasn't way above every other league out there.


But if you look at the 10 years from Liverpool's first UEFA Cup win to their 4th European Cup win, what was England's record?

1974 World Cup - DNQ
1976 Euros - DNQ (Fair enough, only 4 teams qualified)
1978 World Cup - DNQ
1980 Euros - Group Stage and a pretty piss poor performance.
1982 World Cup - 2nd Group stage and a fairly gutless exit.
1984 Euros - DNQ

The again, the top English sides were packed full of Scotsmen. I think Liverpool won the 1984 European Cup with only 3 Englishman in the side. In that 10 year period, only a handful of Liverpool players made any significant number of appearances for England, off the top of my head, only Clemence, Neal, Keegan and Thompson.

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Re: World Cup 2018

by stealthpapes » 12 Oct 2016 10:23

When you put it like that, we should all actually be quite glad of a 0-0 draw with Slovenia.

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Re: World Cup 2018

by bobby1413 » 12 Oct 2016 12:01

Southgate out

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Re: World Cup 2018

by sputnik » 12 Oct 2016 12:34


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Re: World Cup 2018

by From Despair To Where? » 12 Oct 2016 12:49

stealthpapes When you put it like that, we should all actually be quite glad of a 0-0 draw with Slovenia.


Basically, the history of English international football is 80 years of avoiding anyone half decent, a win on home soil and then, 1990 excepted, another 50 years of failing to beat anyone half decent.


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Re: World Cup 2018

by stealthpapes » 12 Oct 2016 14:08

From Despair To Where?
stealthpapes When you put it like that, we should all actually be quite glad of a 0-0 draw with Slovenia.


Basically, the history of English international football is 80 years of avoiding anyone half decent, a win on home soil and then, 1990 excepted, another 50 years of failing to beat anyone half decent.


yeah, I know, I was being sarcastic.

I think England are a hilarious basket case - so much expectation, so little actual talent. And the best thing is that the mouthbreathers don't understand why.

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Re: World Cup 2018

by stealthpapes » 12 Oct 2016 14:27

Saaaaaaaammmmmm https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/07/anger-on-streets-in-china-as-football-team-suffer-shock-defeat-by-war-torn-syria

China in meltdown, but shame the focus is on them, massive result for Syria

Surprised the exerts of the Syrian team haven't been more widely publicised, all things considered it's a pretty good story, would be amazing if amongst the war they were able to qualify for their first World Cup

Iran
South Korea
--------------------
Uzbekistan
--------------------
Syria
China
Qatar

Looking at that you wouldn't say it was impossible, Iran and South Korea are obviously some way ahead but that Play-Off spot looks up for grabs, particularly with China and Qatar in a bit of a shambles

If you come 3rd you have to go through two Play-Offs against the other Asian group (currently UAE) and then North America (probably one of Panama, Honduras, or Trinidad)

Syria have been playing their home games all over the place, already in the qualifiers alone they've won matches in Iran, Oman, and then drew with South Korea in Seremban, Malaysia

Also to add to their underdog status, not a single member of their squad plays their domestic football outside of Asia, including goalkeeper Mahmoud Al-Youssef who keeps goal for United Victory in the Maldives


China lose again, Syria lose to Qatar

In the other group, there's Australia, Saudis and Japan, so two of those to go through and the other probably through the play off. Iraq and Thailand also there.

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Re: World Cup 2018

by tmesis » 12 Oct 2016 17:06

From Despair To Where?
tmesis
AthleticoSpizz .....a severe dose of realism setting in here.

Whatever happened to our loyal national optimism?

I think it died at least 25 years ago.

The idea that English fans are unrealistically optimistic hasn't really been true for a generation - probably about the time that we started actually seeing foreign football, and realising that despite our success in Europe in the late 70s and early 80s, English football wasn't way above every other league out there.


But if you look at the 10 years from Liverpool's first UEFA Cup win to their 4th European Cup win, what was England's record?

1974 World Cup - DNQ
1976 Euros - DNQ (Fair enough, only 4 teams qualified)
1978 World Cup - DNQ
1980 Euros - Group Stage and a pretty piss poor performance.
1982 World Cup - 2nd Group stage and a fairly gutless exit.
1984 Euros - DNQ

The again, the top English sides were packed full of Scotsmen. I think Liverpool won the 1984 European Cup with only 3 Englishman in the side. In that 10 year period, only a handful of Liverpool players made any significant number of appearances for England, off the top of my head, only Clemence, Neal, Keegan and Thompson.


I think if you go to the late 80s in particular, on the back of that club success, and believing Liverpool were the best team in the world (having not actually seen some upstarts called AC Milan play) there was often a weird confidence in the papers for England before tournaments. You could pretty much rely on people like John Sadler to declare that England were the favorites, an the tv pundits did tend talk as if England were right up there with the best.

Given how many fans get their opinions from the press, it understandably translated into a degree of overconfidence among many fans.

That's long gone though, although before every tournament you'll read columnists whinging about the unrealistic expectations of fans, and how we should accept we aren't the best team in the world. It's become a cliche.

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Re: World Cup 2018

by Sutekh » 12 Oct 2016 17:25

Used to enjoy watching England play then though. Wasnt perfect and theyd always throw in some crap efforts every so often but it was just so much more entertaining. Seems that since the late 90s football is just so dull and/or crap at international level. And i'd probably level that complaint at all international teams.


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Re: World Cup 2018

by Royal Rother » 13 Oct 2016 13:29

That's long gone though, although before every tournament you'll read columnists whinging about the unrealistic expectations of fans, and how we should accept we aren't the best team in the world. It's become a cliche.


Journalists are STILL saying how they are excited by the future of this England team and that they GENUINELY believe we will have a fantastic spine that will be world class in years to come.

Yes, I have actually heard on more than one occasion the statement that Stones and Dele Alli are going to be world class, that Dier was magnificent in the Euros, that our full backs are only going to get better....

It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so oxf*rd stupid.

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Re: World Cup 2018

by bcubed » 13 Oct 2016 23:56

Royal Rother
That's long gone though, although before every tournament you'll read columnists whinging about the unrealistic expectations of fans, and how we should accept we aren't the best team in the world. It's become a cliche.


Journalists are STILL saying how they are excited by the future of this England team and that they GENUINELY believe we will have a fantastic spine that will be world class in years to come.

Yes, I have actually heard on more than one occasion the statement that Stones and Dele Alli are going to be world class, that Dier was magnificent in the Euros, that our full backs are only going to get better....

It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so oxf*rd stupid.


Don't know if they are world class but we have some very good players and the team could and should be better than it is.
And even when we qualify we cant perform in knockout competitions
It's not as simple as our players are shit, we are shit

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Re: World Cup 2018

by tmesis » 15 Oct 2016 12:18

Sutekh Used to enjoy watching England play then though. Wasnt perfect and theyd always throw in some crap efforts every so often but it was just so much more entertaining. Seems that since the late 90s football is just so dull and/or crap at international level. And i'd probably level that complaint at all international teams.


I think a lot of that is down to tactics. Teams are coached to keep it tight as the main priority, packing the midfield, and looking to nick goals on the break.

I also think in general, FIFA's decision to make any sort of contact potentially a foul has been hugely damaging. It's created a generation of players whose target when running towards the box seems to be to draw a foul than to actually beat their man.

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Re: World Cup 2018

by Royal Ginger » 11 Nov 2016 20:00

Mutual anthem booing between too British teams is deflatingly disappointing. Fold the Union and fold international football for the home nations. I'm not sure what's positive about it anymore.


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Re: World Cup 2018

by double d » 11 Nov 2016 20:06

You can't fold games between home nations in situations like this, WC/Euro qualifiers are different from a home friendly and can't be picked and chosen. Unfortunately it's always going to be booing.

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Re: World Cup 2018

by Royal Ginger » 11 Nov 2016 20:14

You misunderstand. I'm suggesting that no home nations should play international football anymore. We all hate the international break and take no joy from watching England. Can't we just call it a day and have a cuppa?

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Re: World Cup 2018

by Royal Ginger » 11 Nov 2016 20:26

England's defence is an absolute joke. They're very lucky that Scotland are hopeless.

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Re: World Cup 2018

by bcubed » 11 Nov 2016 20:46

I said it last England game but it is still true - Reading are better at playing the ball around the defence than England

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Re: World Cup 2018

by Royal Rother » 11 Nov 2016 22:08

Jeez, how bad was Sterling tonight?

He just runs with the ball bang into trouble with zero awareness of what is around him.

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Re: World Cup 2018

by Sutekh » 12 Nov 2016 09:40

One day England will decide upon a system and select players to get the best out of playing that system instead of just picking whoever is perceived as being the best and then cobbling something together which'll involve some of those players not playing in the positions/style that they do for their clubs which is why they were picked in the first place.

Expectation Tuesday is for one of the most tedious games imaginable and losing by the odd goal in 1, unless Spain can be arsed

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Re: World Cup 2018

by Saaaaaaaammmmmm » 12 Nov 2016 17:05

A round-up of the qualifiers around the world...

It seems in every South American qualifying process one of the bigger teams has an early wobble before sneaking through, but this time Argentina do look in a bit of trouble, mainly because they're terrible. Messi has been forced out of international retirement, and they got well beaten by Brazil this week, leaving them 6th (Top 4 automatically qualify). Funes Mori couldn't even get into Everton's leaky defence last season yet is currently first choice for the Argentines

After 11 games each only 4 points separate 3rd and 8th. This was helped mainly by Bolivia, who despite beating Peru 2-0 and holding Chile to a 0-0 draw, decided to play defender Nelson Cabrera in both matches, who had already been capped by Paraguary :lol: Both matches were overturned to 0-3 defeats, so Peru and Chile are both still in contention

The 'Uruguay Spot', in other words 5th place (Uruguay finished there in 2002, 2006, 2010, and 2014 qualification), which always leads to a Intercontinental Play-Off, would probably be enough, given it's Oceania this year who get to face South America

Oceania have now reached the actual qualifying stage, with the six teams decided based on performance in the OFC Nations Cup (New Zealand scraping past Papau New Guinea on penalties to qualify for the 2017 Confederations Cup). New Zealand won their opening match 2-0 over New Caledonia this morning, with Fiji the other side in Group A. In Papau New Guinea's Group B, Tahiti beat the Solomon Islands 1-0

The two group winners get to play-off to decide who gets to play-off vs South America, and although New Zealand have been pretty awful for quite some time now, I can't see any of the Pacific Islanders earning a dream date vs possibly Messi and Aguero

Africa is probably the toughest qualifying process given the lack of places and the fact nearly all the teams are pretty well matched. We're down to the final stage, with 5 groups of 4 giving us the 5 qualifiers, in other words you have to win the group otherwise you're out.

Tunisia look like they're going to breeze through Group A, but Group B shows how tough it can be, with Nigeria, Cameroon and Algeria all toughing it out for a single place alongside Zambia (who did win the Cup Of Nations four years ago). Nigeria are blessed with attacking options - Musa, Moses, Ighalo, Iwobi, Iheanacho - but are a bit lacking in defence. Algeria are obviously reliant on Leicester's Mahrez and Slimani, whilst Cameroon aren't quite as strong these days. Nigeria (who won their opening game 1-2 against Zambia), face Algeria later today.

Ivory Coast should get through Group C, but Group D is wide open after South Africa beat Senegal earlier today, courtesy of the worst refereeing decision I've ever seen giving Bafana Bafana a penalty. Cape Verde were very close to qualifying last time out, and would have been the smallest nation ever to play at the World Cup (population 500,000), but them and Burkina Faso might not be strong enough in that group.

Group E should be Ghana, but having failed to beat Uganda at home it leaves Egypt, their opponents tomorrow in pole position. Egypt have only qualified for the World Cup twice (one of which was 1934) so the Pharaohs are starting to get a bit excited. Asamoah Gyan failed to earn a call-up for today's game, but Barnsley's Andy Yiadom (who they signed from Barnet in the summer) has just received his new passport and will make his debut, which has enraged the Head of Ghana's FA

The media did their best to link USA vs Mexico last night to Donald Trump's election, so maybe the Mexicans were inspired to victory, with Rafael Marquez scoring an 89th minute winner. Marquez made his debut for Mexico in 1997, and played in the 1999 Confederations Cup final in which they beat Brazil :shock: He's also the only player every to captain their country in four successive World Cups, which could very easily become five

This is the opening round of the final stage in North America, with Costa Rica beating Trinidad & Tobago and Panama winning away in Honduras. Good result for the Panamaniacs, who were heartbreakingly close in 2014 to reaching their first World Cup, knocked out by two injury-time goals by USA in the final round last time out (which saw Mexico scrape through). The Top 3 of 6 will qualify, with 4th facing a play-off against Asia

I posted about Asia last time out and they get going again on Tuesday. South Korea vs Uzbekistan could potentially be a qualification decider in Group A. The Uzbeks are probably the World Cup's unluckiest team, having been ordered by FIFA to replay their play-off against Bahrain in 2006 thanks to a dodgy refereeing decision, and in 2014 missing out on automatic qualification by one goal, before losing in another play-off to Jordan 9-8 on penalties. With Qatar and China badly underperforming this time round in their group, a big opportunity if they can get a result in Korea

Saudi Arabia haven't been at a World Cup since 2006, and haven't won a match at one since their debut in 1994, yet they're running with Group B. They face Japan who have been pretty poor for a few years now, but still lie 3rd, the play-off position, behind Australia and ahead of UAE, Iraq, and the whipping boys Thailand (who don't appear to ever call anyone up who plays outside of Thailand). Their top scorer Teerasil Dangda was at Man City when they had Thai owners, but was released when the Abu Dhabi takeover happened. Not sure he'll be joining us anytime soon however

Europe will probably be clearer after this weekend, but with limited places it's already looking quite different to the largely irrelevant Euro 2016 process. Only 1st place automatically qualifies, and only the 8 best runner-ups get a chance through the play-offs.

Group A: France scraped past Sweden last night to put them further ahead, Netherlands need to start winning games fast otherwise they'll be missing out on another tournament

Group B: Portugal losing to Switzerland has already put the Euro 2016 champions place in doubt, although the continued heroics of the Faroe Islands may stop Hungary or Latvia challenging the top two, unless the Faroes fancy the job themselves (population 48,000)

Group C: Germany will win this group and likely win all their games, they beat San Marino 8-0 last night. Azerbaijan helped Northern Ireland by taking points off Norway and Czech Republic, and then getting thumped 4-0 in Belfast yesterday.

Group D: Huge game for Wales tonight against leaders Serbia. Georgia have looked decent but are unlikely to challenge Austria or Ireland, who face each other this evening.

Group E: No real strong team in this group, which means Poland look like winning it early on. Montenegro, their closest challengers blew a 0-2 lead to lose against Armenia yesterday, whilst Denmark and Romania don't look as strong as they have in the past

Group F: England have made a good start results-wise, but Slovenia and Slovakia continue to win and keep up the pressure. Scotland are finished already

Group G: This will be Spain or Italy, both tied on 7 points after three games

Group H: Belgium and Greece have a 100% record, with Bosnia looking the only challengers to those two

Group I: A strong, unbeaten start by Iceland (helped by a dramatic comeback and a 96th minute winner against Finland), puts them level with Croatia. They face off in probably the pick of today's games. A strong group, with Turkey, Ukraine and Kosovo also hoping to compete, although Kosovo have been surprisingly poor

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