MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

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Scutterbucketz
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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by Scutterbucketz » 12 Jul 2018 10:39

Sanguine wrote:
bobby1413 wrote:In work this morning:

Woman 1: I watched the first half but got bored, so turned it off

Woman 2: Yea, I don't get why the ref didn't give a yellow card for the penalty
Me: Penalty? There wasn't one
Woman 2: there was, near the square bit
Me: You mean a free kick
Her: Yes, a penalty


Lady behind me at work.

Her: So when do we play again?
Colleague: Saturday evening.
Her: Oooh good. So we can still win the World Cup?

:| :roll:


Ah can we??? Fukking rock on!

ICH!

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Old Man Andrews
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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by Old Man Andrews » 12 Jul 2018 10:46

Really hoping Ryan Sessegnon kicks on and lights up the Premier League. That current England team with his pace and raw ability in it excites me a lot. We could do with a dynamic player like him so hopefully he hits the ground running next season.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by John Madejski's Wallet » 12 Jul 2018 14:07

winchester_royal wrote:
I think maybe he should have been a bit more ruthless around the 60 min mark when it was clear that the tide had turned. Alli and Young looked off their feet and I'd have liked to see Rose and RLC on to try and wrestle some momentum back.

Don't think it was down to 'niceness' though, I think he probably just wanted to keep his best team on the field for as long as possible, which is understandable, but ultimately I do think it probably cost us.

^^ Yeah that.

Kane was shot last night and after half time the Croats figured out how to push us back and attack down our left. Would have been nice to have seen the changes early (so we didn't just fall back on England hoof ball). But overall, can't complain at this tourney

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by Jackson Corner » 12 Jul 2018 14:39

Stranded wrote:Best team won but hard not to be positive about the direction of the national team.

That XI is fairly young and has bought in to what Southgate is trying to do, add to that that we are World Champions at both U17 and U20 level - and some of these players are realising that they don't need to hang around at PL clubs not playing and moving abroad in some cases - and there is no reason not to think that we could be entering a spell where England regularly make the latter rounds and maybe ever win something.

Of course, the opposite may happen but it feels like a positive step forward.

You can win as many under 17 21 world cups as you like. The thing is with the players will they play for there clubs? 30% of the premiership is English players. The big six 10%. France, Belgium,German and Croation leagues will full of home grown players who just go off and play for Europe’s top clubs. We are a club culture and support our clubs more than the national team. The total opposite to other nations. We all got carried away in this World Cup but come August the same depressing cycle of foreign players ruling our top division starts again.
Last edited by Jackson Corner on 12 Jul 2018 14:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by genome » 12 Jul 2018 14:44

Plenty of Germans seem to be saying how much this youthful England team reminds them of their 2010 WC team.

You all know what happened in the next World Cup.........


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by Stranded » 12 Jul 2018 15:13

Jackson Corner wrote:
Stranded wrote:Best team won but hard not to be positive about the direction of the national team.

That XI is fairly young and has bought in to what Southgate is trying to do, add to that that we are World Champions at both U17 and U20 level - and some of these players are realising that they don't need to hang around at PL clubs not playing and moving abroad in some cases - and there is no reason not to think that we could be entering a spell where England regularly make the latter rounds and maybe ever win something.

Of course, the opposite may happen but it feels like a positive step forward.

You can win as many under 17 21 world cups as you like. The thing is with the players will they play for there clubs? 30% of the premiership is English players. The big six 10%. France, Belgium,German and Croation leagues will full of home grown players who just go off and play for Europe’s top clubs. We are a club culture and support our clubs more than the national team. The total opposite to other nations. We all got carried away in this World Cup but come August the same depressing cycle of foreign players ruling our top division starts again.


That is a key question but we are slowly seeing some players from this age group going abroad instead of waiting on an opportunity here. For example Sancho, who has gone to Dortmund. Lookman who went to loan at Leipzig and may go permanently. Rhian Brewster may well follow shortly.

The younger players now realise that the PL isn't everything and you may have a better shot at regular football at a top club in Germany, Italy, Spain or France.

Some of the U20 squad are playing regularly though, Calvert-Lewin and Lewis Cook the 2 immediately coming to mind and there are players like Sessegnon who will play in the PL this year (we can see if he steps up). You don't need hundreds coming through, just a handful esp. as a lot of the squad in Russia will be around in 2 and 4 years time. There seems to be a proper Club England plan in place whereby there is a consistancy of approach throughout the age groups now, so that if a younger player comes in, he knows what is required in terms of system/tactics - so can hopefully slip in fairly seamlessly.

The potential is exciting but needs to be developed.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by Hoop Blah » 12 Jul 2018 16:24

Jackson Corner wrote:[You can win as many under 17 21 world cups as you like. The thing is with the players will they play for there clubs? 30% of the premiership is English players. The big six 10%. France, Belgium,German and Croation leagues will full of home grown players who just go off and play for Europe’s top clubs. We are a club culture and support our clubs more than the national team. The total opposite to other nations. We all got carried away in this World Cup but come August the same depressing cycle of foreign players ruling our top division starts again.


That argument totally overlooks the part the Championship, and even League One, can play in player development. It's a league with a lot of internationals playing in it and it's comparable to a lot of other European top flights. Arguably it's got more quality than some of the lower league teams in the bigger leagues too. It also overlooks the number of English players who end up playing in the Premier League but playing for other countries (probably not a massive difference, but it closes the gap a little)

Basically, England's potential talent pool is more than just those England qualified players playing in the Premier League.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by BR0B0T » 12 Jul 2018 17:42

Think France produced the largest number of players in the WC this year...double anyone else

as in grew up in the French system and are then eligible to play for the likes of Portugal, Iran etc as well as NT.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by CountryRoyal » 12 Jul 2018 21:47

BR0B0T wrote:Think France produced the largest number of players in the WC this year...double anyone else

as in grew up in the French system and are then eligible to play for the likes of Portugal, Iran etc as well as NT.


Yeah I actually watched an interesting video the other day about it. It's not exactly ground breaking but it gives a nice oversight and some explanation towards why they have produced so many good players for so long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P55XYp2KD2Y


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Jul 2018 22:07

What I find so depressing is that Croatia genuinely looked there for the taking, but some poor performances / finishing, a lack of drive and some sloppy play let them take control and take the game. And we looked like the exhausted side who'd played extra time three times in a week and a half, not them.

It was quite clear as HT was approaching we were hanging on a bit. And obvious that they were likely to come out strong. But we did nothing about it. We did nothing about our exposed flanks or our over use of the long ball, which was totally out of character.

I fully expect this side and our chances at Euro 20 to be hyped up beyond belief and fall apart now as well. Followed by recriminations.

They exceeded expectations and mostly put in some very decent performances. But it was an easy draw comparatively... we didn't even get knocked out by the first top side we played. Is approximately one round further than our world ranking (four of the teams ranked higher than us didn't make it out of the groups and another five didn't make it through the last 16!) really that good seeing as it came thanks to beating 24th ranked Sweden? Croatia have made the final ranked 20th. We didn't play a single team ranked higher than us in the knockout stages, the only team we played ranked higher than us, both of us put out the reserves.

We bottled it. Balance of the team wasn't quite there. Sterling, Lingard and in particular Alli had disappointing tournaments. That's most of our attack.

It says a lot about how you've done when you've got your record world cup win, progressed further than expected, the current golden boot leader and yet your stand out player is the right wing back who's earnt half of his caps at the Finals themselves.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by BR0B0T » 12 Jul 2018 22:27

CountryRoyal wrote:
BR0B0T wrote:Think France produced the largest number of players in the WC this year...double anyone else

as in grew up in the French system and are then eligible to play for the likes of Portugal, Iran etc as well as NT.


Yeah I actually watched an interesting video the other day about it. It's not exactly ground breaking but it gives a nice oversight and some explanation towards why they have produced so many good players for so long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P55XYp2KD2Y


samesies....that's where I got the figure from although. Although doesn't necessarily mean the French system is the best

I'd say Ireland/Wales are potentially better than a lot of teams (Saudi Arabia, Iran etc) but have a harder qualifying group

If they get through then our numbers look better

Is it the training system or just a random distribution of players coming through though???

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by Scutterbucketz » 12 Jul 2018 22:31

I just stupidly sat through the extended highlights. I was pretty drunk yesterday so didn’t remember much of it.

Henderson was pretty awful. Constantly trying to pump the ball forwards with a killer long pass. I think I saw one out of 10 of these find a man. The rest just gave away possession when he should have been holding on to it. You can only assume he did it so often that he must have been told to do that. Dele Alli was anonymous. It was a poor performance all round.

I’d hope that for 2020 we’ll have a proper left back with a left foot. Ashley Young is not the answer.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by Zip » 12 Jul 2018 23:31

Scutterbucketz wrote:I just stupidly sat through the extended highlights. I was pretty drunk yesterday so didn’t remember much of it.

Henderson was pretty awful. Constantly trying to pump the ball forwards with a killer long pass. I think I saw one out of 10 of these find a man. The rest just gave away possession when he should have been holding on to it. You can only assume he did it so often that he must have been told to do that. Dele Alli was anonymous. It was a poor performance all round.

I’d hope that for 2020 we’ll have a proper left back with a left foot. Ashley Young is not the answer.



I don’t have a dog in this fight and thought Henderson was poor too. Yet an England supporting mate thought he played well.
Also agree that Ashley Young is not the answer.
I also think England remain vulnerable at centre back. England also need to retain possession of the ball better. That’s a problem across British football.

Just going back to Ian’s point. I personally didn’t think England were hanging on towards the end of the first half. They looked extremely comfortable. It was only after sixty minutes that Croatia started looking dangerous. England then did start to tire badly.

One final point. By the time of Euro 2020 the likes of Germany, Spain, Italy and Holland are likely to be much stronger. This was a fantastic chance for England. Ultimately they were not technically good enough to take it. I am far from convinced they will have another chance like this again.


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by 6ft Kerplunk » 13 Jul 2018 10:05

That's the issue with playing with three at the back and wingbacks, you only have one central midfielder. You're got to be some player to provide the defensive cover and start all of the attacks. I thought Henderson was decent enough and would look more to Lingard and Alli than him for the lack of creativity. We'd all love a Modric/Pirlo type of player but they don't come around very often do they.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by Sanguine » 13 Jul 2018 11:10

Hoop Blah wrote:
That argument totally overlooks the part the Championship, and even League One, can play in player development. It's a league with a lot of internationals playing in it and it's comparable to a lot of other European top flights.


Indeed didn't Maguire, Pickford, Lingard (off the top of my head) play in the Championship? In the case of Maguire only 18 months ago too. Alli played in League One didn't he?

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by LUX » 13 Jul 2018 11:10

why was Loftus Cheek not used more often? He did not play at all after the Group games. I thought he made a difference/made things happen. Should have come on for Lingard IMO.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by Old Man Andrews » 13 Jul 2018 11:14

LUX wrote:why was Loftus Cheek not used more often? He did not play at all after the Group games. I thought he made a difference/made things happen. Should have come on for Lingard IMO.


Agreed. I thouht we lost our dynamism when Sterling went off, he was still causing problems. Should have brought RLC on for Lingard to hold up the ball and play the through balls on to Kane/Sterling.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by Victor Meldrew » 13 Jul 2018 14:17

Hoop Blah wrote:A decent enough performance last night but ultimately we fell a little shy of the mark in both boxes and came up short when the pressure was on.

It's been a good tournament, not only for our progress, but for the way the interest in football and the national team has been reinvigorated. I don't think we can ignore the fact that we had an easier route during this tournament (I still maintain we played just as well against Italy and Uruguay in Brazil 4 years ago as we did this year) but everything around the side seems so much more positive, and that's a great thing.

Southgate has put together a squad of decent players and turned them into a team, and that's been sadly lacking for too long now. Add in some of those players who were missing from this squad and those coming through over the next year or so and it really does feel like there's a good side and a bright future ahead of us.
Probably like those in most countries

On your point about" interest has been reinvigorated."
Probably in most countries around the world people love the opportunity of winning.
Look at the London Olympics or Andy Murray or Anthony Joshua-people become united in the quest for victory and when that has come and gone and the flags and hats put away what happens next?
It all goes quiet again and in the case of the London Olympics and post-Murray tennis there is no follow-on.

The big hope for the English national football team is that this new-found belief in bringing in younger and less experienced players is the way it is going to be-I get the feeling that , particularly with football, there won't be so many selections based on reputation.
Gareth may have fallen a little into that trap the other night by keeping Young, Ali and Lingard on the pitch and even possibly Kane.
It is understandable that he would be cautious about making changes-imagine the furore if he had taken Kane off and we lost (remember Graham Taylor subbing golden boy Lineker)-as he is still fairly new in the job and has had only limited experience as a manager in club football.

I don't believe he had a squad anywhere nearly good enough to win a World Cup-Trippier and Walker may be quick but are poor defenders, John Stones thinks he is Beckenbauer but isn't, Ashley Young (vision and I have discussed right-footed left-backs in the past) is too right-footed, as is Ali and when both of those play wide left it is not that effective.
Obvious successes were Pickford and Maguire who will surely be there , injuries permitting, when the next World Cup come around,plus probably Ali and Kane and a few fringe players might step up especially if their names are double-barelled. :wink:

So IMHO about 7/10 with the team as a whole surpassing itself,but we do badly need stronger defenders and a midfielder or two with the ability to create chances in open play as scoring from set-pieces will not be quite so easy when we have to play the better teams.

Is there a real tide turn towards the national team or was it just a temporary nationalistic feelgood factor (like the Olympics) for a few weeks when so many (apparently )feel let down by our government not doing enough to enact what they voted for with Brexit?

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Croatia (n) sponsored by two big badges

by BR0B0T » 13 Jul 2018 18:13

^^^ this is why I believe team spirit doesn't really exist

just response to outside stimuli be it positive or negative

then confirmation bias >>> then Gabby Logan etc having to fill time looking to explain something without putting any thought into it

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