ArsenaLOL

[genome]

I don't know but the more I think about that word and say it in my head, the more it loses its meaning

Dribble Dribble Dribble Dribble Dribble

[Hoop Blah]

how the f does anyone quantify a 'dribble'?

Picking up the ball, running with it and then executing a successful pass or shot at the end of it, I'd assume

surely a dribble would have to be going around at least 1 person, otherwise it is just running with the ball??

Assuming these come from Opta, or at least another provider who use similar definitions.

http://optasports.com/news-area/blog-optas-event-definitions.aspx

Dribbles/Take-ons

This is an attempt by a player to beat an opponent in possession of the ball. A successful dribble means the player beats the defender while retaining possession, unsuccessful ones are where the dribbler is tackled, Opta also log attempted dribbles where the player overruns the ball.

I'm not a fan of stats in football as a whole but this is one that is relatively useful for comparison purposes, although as with all of them it doesn't give a gauge of difficultly or impact etc.

Great to see Wilshire continue his rehabilitation though.

[Winston Biscuit]

Picking up the ball, running with it and then executing a successful pass or shot at the end of it, I'd assume

surely a dribble would have to be going around at least 1 person, otherwise it is just running with the ball??

Assuming these come from Opta, or at least another provider who use similar definitions.

http://optasports.com/news-area/blog-optas-event-definitions.aspx

Dribbles/Take-ons

This is an attempt by a player to beat an opponent in possession of the ball. A successful dribble means the player beats the defender while retaining possession, unsuccessful ones are where the dribbler is tackled, Opta also log attempted dribbles where the player overruns the ball.

I'm not a fan of stats in football as a whole but this is one that is relatively useful for comparison purposes, although as with all of them it doesn't give a gauge of difficultly or impact etc.

it's meaningless, just like assist stats which can come of your backside by accident.

1 dribble is not comparable to another, the quality of it, the difficulty of it, what you are up against etc. Stats like this actually remove all info that is required to be able to judge what has happened.

It's madness!

[Hoop Blah]

it's meaningless, just like assist stats which can come of your backside by accident.

1 dribble is not comparable to another, the quality of it, the difficulty of it, what you are up against etc. Stats like this actually remove all info that is required to be able to judge what has happened.

It's madness!

Generally I agree, and I pay absolutely no interest in them, especially assist stats which as you say are meaningless.

There are a few that are semi-interesting or relevant stats, such a key passes*, chances created* or even something like the aerial duels won, which at an aggregated level can give you some indication of how good a player is at a certain skill or event. It all comes down to how they're recorded and the amount of weight you place on them though (ie little being sensible!).

* it sounds like they're still taking a bit of luck into account though, like assists.

[Sanguine]

I just like the use of the word 'duel'.

[Winston Biscuit]

I just like the use of the word 'duel'.

do you make the effort to make sure the D is heard at the start, like 'dyule' or do you just give in to it and say 'jule'?

[BR0B0T]

surely a dribble would have to be going around at least 1 person, otherwise it is just running with the ball??

Assuming these come from Opta, or at least another provider who use similar definitions.

http://optasports.com/news-area/blog-optas-event-definitions.aspx

Dribbles/Take-ons

This is an attempt by a player to beat an opponent in possession of the ball. A successful dribble means the player beats the defender while retaining possession, unsuccessful ones are where the dribbler is tackled, Opta also log attempted dribbles where the player overruns the ball.

I'm not a fan of stats in football as a whole but this is one that is relatively useful for comparison purposes, although as with all of them it doesn't give a gauge of difficultly or impact etc.

it's meaningless, just like assist stats which can come of your backside by accident.

1 dribble is not comparable to another, the quality of it, the difficulty of it, what you are up against etc. Stats like this actually remove all info that is required to be able to judge what has happened.

It's madness!

Depends on how they are used...pundits use them badly i.e. whatever backs up whatever they think

Expected_goals/expected_assists etc is actually a really good way of modelling how well players/teams have performed regardless of the final outcome. Counting assists that result in goals depends upon how well the 'goalscorer' performed

Aggregating the probabilities of scoring from every goal attempt assist gives you a better idea of how the 'assister' actually performed

1. playing a through ball that leaves a striker 1v1 with the keeper has an xG value of .40
2. playing a square ball for someone to have a pop from 25 yds has an xG value of .03

blah blah etc

[Sanguine]

I just like the use of the word 'duel'.

do you make the effort to make sure the D is heard at the start, like 'dyule' or do you just give in to it and say 'jule'?

The former, obviously. Said with a vicious yet camp swipe of my air-sword.

[Royal Rother]

it's meaningless, just like assist stats which can come of your backside by accident.

1 dribble is not comparable to another, the quality of it, the difficulty of it, what you are up against etc. Stats like this actually remove all info that is required to be able to judge what has happened.

It's madness!

Generally I agree, and I pay absolutely no interest in them, especially assist stats which as you say are meaningless.

There are a few that are semi-interesting or relevant stats, such a key passes*, chances created* or even something like the aerial duels won, which at an aggregated level can give you some indication of how good a player is at a certain skill or event. It all comes down to how they're recorded and the amount of weight you place on them though (ie little being sensible!).

* it sounds like they're still taking a bit of luck into account though, like assists.

Stats like this are not meaningless when viewed over a period of time.

Yeah, so I started this off with Wilshere’s stats for the 1 game but any similar stats would be hugely relevant over say a 20 game period.

Even assists.... sure there’s going to be the odd fluke chucked in but over a season they are going to mean stacks. Not everything, but stacks.

Denial of that would be silly.

[Sanguine]

Yeah I'd agree that the assist stat is pretty telling. Certainly at PL level, not many 'assists' are ricochets or lucky bounces, and indeed I'm not sure they'd be recorded as such anyway.

What's the distinction between an assist and a 'key pass'?

[Winston Biscuit]

it's meaningless, just like assist stats which can come of your backside by accident.

1 dribble is not comparable to another, the quality of it, the difficulty of it, what you are up against etc. Stats like this actually remove all info that is required to be able to judge what has happened.

It's madness!

Generally I agree, and I pay absolutely no interest in them, especially assist stats which as you say are meaningless.

There are a few that are semi-interesting or relevant stats, such a key passes*, chances created* or even something like the aerial duels won, which at an aggregated level can give you some indication of how good a player is at a certain skill or event. It all comes down to how they're recorded and the amount of weight you place on them though (ie little being sensible!).

* it sounds like they're still taking a bit of luck into account though, like assists.

Stats like this are not meaningless when viewed over a period of time.

Yeah, so I started this off with Wilshere’s stats for the 1 game but any similar stats would be hugely relevant over say a 20 game period.

Even assists.... sure there’s going to be the odd fluke chucked in but over a season they are going to mean stacks. Not everything, but stacks.

Denial of that would be silly.

well I must be silly then, as is anyone else that disagrees with you it seems.

[Hoop Blah]

Yeah I'd agree that the assist stat is pretty telling. Certainly at PL level, not many 'assists' are ricochets or lucky bounces, and indeed I'm not sure they'd be recorded as such anyway.

What's the distinction between an assist and a 'key pass'?

The difference is what the teammate does with it, eg if Lacazette spoons a tap-in over the bar from 3 yards out after Wilshire tees him up it would be a key pass but not an assist.

I don't see assists as much use because you will get a fair amount of flukes or sideways passes resulting someone else doing something special or, as above, the influence a teammates performance on the outcome.

As with any stat it all depends on how you use it and the context you use it within. Someone taking free kicks or corners should end up with plenty more assists than a teammate who might be more creative from open play. Both are worthwhile skills and contributions for a team, but if you compare one against the other without the context then it doesn't mean much.

[Sanguine]

I don't see assists as much use because you will get a fair amount of flukes or sideways passes resulting someone else doing something special or, as above, the influence a teammates performance on the outcome.

That was kind of my point - if Suarez passes it a yard to Messi, who then dribbles past 4 defenders and scores, I'm not sure Suarez would be credited with an 'assist'.

[Hoop Blah]

I don't see assists as much use because you will get a fair amount of flukes or sideways passes resulting someone else doing something special or, as above, the influence a teammates performance on the outcome.

That was kind of my point - if Suarez passes it a yard to Messi, who then dribbles past 4 defenders and scores, I'm not sure Suarez would be credited with an 'assist'.

He would in pretty much every definition I've bothered looking at.

To be fair to Opta they seem to have introduced a bit more rigour around it and have a fantasy assist category now which covers:

Heavily deflected pass
Shot on target saved, rebound scored
Shot blocked rebound scored
Shot hit woodwork rebound scored
Penalty won
Free kick won by foul
Free kick instigated by forced handball
Instigating own goal through shot/pass

[BR0B0T]

Dear pCunts,

I pretty much explained how it works and then you continue talking shite

Go fcuk yourselves

Yours Sincerely
Dr B0T

[Winston Biscuit]

Dear pCunts,

I pretty much explained how it works and then you continue talking shite

Go fcuk yourselves

Yours Sincerely
Dr B0T

broboooooot!*






*That is a new expression I shall be using on your posts from time to time. It indicates a light hearted kind of 'what are you like?!' statement, although the 2nd syllable should just be an extended 'ot' noise, rather than an 'oot' noise, which is how it looks. Feel free to imagine me shaking my first at you when I post this.

[Royal Rother]

well I must be silly then, as is anyone else that disagrees with you it seems.

Well yeah, but I’m not sure you really do disagree. Just that you would rather dig in than read then stop and think for a moment.

[double d]

I am quite liking this wilshire revival. If he keeps this up he will be a shoo in for the wc and may even secure himself a move to a decent team in the summer.

[Winston Biscuit]

well I must be silly then, as is anyone else that disagrees with you it seems.

Well yeah, but I’m not sure you really do disagree. Just that you would rather dig in than read then stop and think for a moment.

You know we are allowed to hold different opinions on this, right?

[BR0B0T]

well I must be silly then, as is anyone else that disagrees with you it seems.

Well yeah, but I’m not sure you really do disagree. Just that you would rather dig in than read then stop and think for a moment.

You know we are allowed to hold different opinions on this, right?

allow me to clear this up for you two...

can you just clarify your positions and i'll (without trace of irony) tell you who is correct