More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

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Stranded
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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Stranded » 20 Jun 2017 07:57

John Madejski's Wallet wrote:
Stranded wrote:a penalty kick is either scored or missed/saved and players cannot follow up to score to stop encroachment into the penalty area - in relation to the above - makes sense.

^^^ that is sh*t

Would have absolutely screwed reading last season too! I reckon we'd have actually missed out on the playoffs


Yep agreed - thought it was meant as just an the end of the game i.e penalty kick is last action but appears to be suggested for all kicks.

Part of the idea seems to be if an attacking player encroaches, penalty is automatically given as missed - no retake. If defender encroaches and pen missed then retaken. If that can be policed properly then fair enough - if all competitions use the officials behind the goal then the linesman can be responsible for checking for encroachment.

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Sutekh » 20 Jun 2017 08:25

The 60 minutes cr@p is just that (probably suggested to help make the game more TV and advertising friendly so FIFA can devise ways to sell more of it). The day that happens will be the end of the game as far as I am concerned.

Of the others

  1. passing to yourself at a free-kick, corner and goal-kick
  2. a stadium clock which stops and starts along with the referee's watch
  3. allowing the goal-kick to be taken even if the ball is moving
  4. a goal-kick being taken on the same side that the ball went out on
  5. a "clearer and more consistent definition" of handball
  6. a player who scores a goal or stops a goal with his hands gets a red card
  7. a keeper who handles a backpass or throw-in from a team-mate concedes a penalty
  8. the referee can award a goal if a player stops a goal being scored by handling on or close to the goal-line
  9. referees can only blow for half-time or full-time when the ball goes out of play

No problems with any of that lot though I suspect any definition of handball other than "if the ball hits or is touched by any outfield player's arm, below the elbow/shoulder, or hand then the referee shall award a free kick or penalty" will result in the same debates you have today.

Having a clock in the stadium being tied to the referee's timepiece would also be great. Everyone could clearly see when the "watch" was being stopped and restarted and would know how long was left. Should be tied in with the ref not being able to blow for time until the ball is out of play. Need to work out how to apply it where the ground does not have a clock capable of being "tied" to a ref's watch though.

    - a penalty kick is either scored or missed/saved and players cannot follow up to score to stop encroachment into the penalty area

Like most people I think this one is just utterly ridiculous and unnecessary.

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Sanguine » 20 Jun 2017 08:56

Passing the ball to yourself at a free-kick is bullshit. Not least because you'll immediately get in a mess with the 10 yard rule for defending. That a dead ball has to be passed to another player is a pretty fundamental part of the game and not one I'd like to see change.

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Stranded » 20 Jun 2017 09:55

Sutekh wrote:The 60 minutes cr@p is just that (probably suggested to help make the game more TV and advertising friendly so FIFA can devise ways to sell more of it). The day that happens will be the end of the game as far as I am concerned.



Why is it cr@p and how will it be the end of the game? Appreciate it that is your opinion but interested in how you arrived at that view.

In a 90 min match, we only get about 55mins of actual football on average. If they move to 60mins with the clock stopping then we as fans will get more actual football without noticing any real difference to the experience. A half will probably still last around 45 mins but the 30secs or so wasted setting up set pieces etc will happen with the clock stopped.

Would pretty much kill time wasting dead as well.

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Stranded » 20 Jun 2017 09:58

Sanguine wrote:Passing the ball to yourself at a free-kick is bullshit. Not least because you'll immediately get in a mess with the 10 yard rule for defending. That a dead ball has to be passed to another player is a pretty fundamental part of the game and not one I'd like to see change.


Fair enough but I think it will give the attacking team an advantage. Player is fouled and grabs the ball as he falls - he can quickly put the ball down and head off if there is advantage in doing so i.e. space in front of him. It is really just an extension of the rule allowing a player to shoot from a dead ball - no teammates involved.


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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Sanguine » 20 Jun 2017 10:02

Stranded wrote:
Sanguine wrote:Passing the ball to yourself at a free-kick is bullshit. Not least because you'll immediately get in a mess with the 10 yard rule for defending. That a dead ball has to be passed to another player is a pretty fundamental part of the game and not one I'd like to see change.


Fair enough but I think it will give the attacking team an advantage. Player is fouled and grabs the ball as he falls - he can quickly put the ball down and head off if there is advantage in doing so i.e. space in front of him. It is really just an extension of the rule allowing a player to shoot from a dead ball - no teammates involved.


I think I'd just sooner see referees coached at becoming better at allowing quick (regular) free-kicks.

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by handbags_harris » 20 Jun 2017 12:58

Stranded wrote:
Sanguine wrote:Passing the ball to yourself at a free-kick is bullshit. Not least because you'll immediately get in a mess with the 10 yard rule for defending. That a dead ball has to be passed to another player is a pretty fundamental part of the game and not one I'd like to see change.


Fair enough but I think it will give the attacking team an advantage. Player is fouled and grabs the ball as he falls - he can quickly put the ball down and head off if there is advantage in doing so i.e. space in front of him. It is really just an extension of the rule allowing a player to shoot from a dead ball - no teammates involved.


The whole idea of a free kick is to allow the infringed side (note I do not use the word "attacking") to receive an advantage. All too often they are denied the opportunity of taking full advantage of the situation an infringement causes because of the opponent or the referee (understandable if the referee wants to take formal disciplinary action). I'm not sure I like the idea of players being able to play the ball to themselves, the adjustment I would make is to prevent any player on the side of the infringed that is within 10 yards of the ball when a free kick is taken to touch the ball until the ball has travelled 10 yards.

Another change I would introduce is to create/amend a law that says players and their teammates cannot touch the ball if they have conceded a free kick/penalty, or were the last to play the ball in a ball out of play decision. One of my biggest gripes is witnessing players deliberately kick the ball away when they know the ball has gone out of play and they were the last to touch the ball. Prevent them from touching the ball with a mandatory yellow if they do, problem solved.

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Sutekh » 20 Jun 2017 14:17

Stranded wrote:
Sutekh wrote:The 60 minutes cr@p is just that (probably suggested to help make the game more TV and advertising friendly so FIFA can devise ways to sell more of it). The day that happens will be the end of the game as far as I am concerned.



Why is it cr@p and how will it be the end of the game? Appreciate it that is your opinion but interested in how you arrived at that view.

In a 90 min match, we only get about 55mins of actual football on average. If they move to 60mins with the clock stopping then we as fans will get more actual football without noticing any real difference to the experience. A half will probably still last around 45 mins but the 30secs or so wasted setting up set pieces etc will happen with the clock stopped.

Would pretty much kill time wasting dead as well.


Because I think it is just makes the game plastic and takes away the depth. Like watching basketball and all those other plastic Americanised TV orientated "sports".

I like having all the "bits and pieces" that go into a game and all the controversy, debate, subtle time wasting and frustration etc. that goes along with it. Sick of everything being made anodyne and supposedly as perfect as possible. Life isn't like that so let's keep what we can of it in sport.

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by CountryRoyal » 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Sutekh wrote:
Stranded wrote:
Sutekh wrote:The 60 minutes cr@p is just that (probably suggested to help make the game more TV and advertising friendly so FIFA can devise ways to sell more of it). The day that happens will be the end of the game as far as I am concerned.



Why is it cr@p and how will it be the end of the game? Appreciate it that is your opinion but interested in how you arrived at that view.

In a 90 min match, we only get about 55mins of actual football on average. If they move to 60mins with the clock stopping then we as fans will get more actual football without noticing any real difference to the experience. A half will probably still last around 45 mins but the 30secs or so wasted setting up set pieces etc will happen with the clock stopped.

Would pretty much kill time wasting dead as well.


Because I think it is just makes the game plastic and takes away the depth. Like watching basketball and all those other plastic Americanised TV orientated "sports".

I like having all the "bits and pieces" that go into a game and all the controversy, debate, subtle time wasting and frustration etc. that goes along with it. Sick of everything being made anodyne and supposedly as perfect as possible. Life isn't like that so let's keep what we can of it in sport.


+1,000,000

Football, perhaps more than any other sport, is about so much more than what the result is. The talking points...etc

Unfortunately with the prizes on offer for success, and the consequences of failure, it's only going one way, and it's a great tragedy imho. I'll take the decisions against us, they are frustrating and can be heartbreaking, but you get them in your favor too, and without all that, the game would be so bland, and effectively ruined.


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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Ian Royal » 20 Jun 2017 17:55

Nah, not buying the anti 60 minutes stuff.

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by West Stand Man » 20 Jun 2017 20:51

Ian Royal wrote:Nah, not buying the anti 60 minutes stuff.



Me neither. It makes serious sense to do this and to link it to a law that requires the ball to be out of play before the final whistle is blown. We'd get more football ( see the comment above re the amount of time the ball is currently in play) and there would be more clarity on how much time there is left. The end of 'Fergie time' can only be a good thing!

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Ian Royal » 20 Jun 2017 20:53

West Stand Man wrote:
Ian Royal wrote:Nah, not buying the anti 60 minutes stuff.



Me neither. It makes serious sense to do this and to link it to a law that requires the ball to be out of play before the final whistle is blown. We'd get more football ( see the comment above re the amount of time the ball is currently in play) and there would be more clarity on how much time there is left. The end of 'Fergie time' can only be a good thing!

Biggest bonus for me is an end to feigning injury, pointless substitutions and the slow trudge off the pitch.

Timewasting would still be a thing as you could still just hold it in a corner to use up time. But at least it would be of the legal, legitimate kind.

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by CountryRoyal » 20 Jun 2017 22:24

Ian Royal wrote:
West Stand Man wrote:
Ian Royal wrote:Nah, not buying the anti 60 minutes stuff.



Me neither. It makes serious sense to do this and to link it to a law that requires the ball to be out of play before the final whistle is blown. We'd get more football ( see the comment above re the amount of time the ball is currently in play) and there would be more clarity on how much time there is left. The end of 'Fergie time' can only be a good thing!

Biggest bonus for me is an end to feigning injury, pointless substitutions and the slow trudge off the pitch.

Timewasting would still be a thing as you could still just hold it in a corner to use up time. But at least it would be of the legal, legitimate kind.


Holding it in a corner is legal and legitimate now... it's just oxf*rd pointless 9 times out 10.


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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Stranded » 21 Jun 2017 08:26

handbags_harris wrote:
Stranded wrote:
Sanguine wrote:Passing the ball to yourself at a free-kick is bullshit. Not least because you'll immediately get in a mess with the 10 yard rule for defending. That a dead ball has to be passed to another player is a pretty fundamental part of the game and not one I'd like to see change.


Fair enough but I think it will give the attacking team an advantage. Player is fouled and grabs the ball as he falls - he can quickly put the ball down and head off if there is advantage in doing so i.e. space in front of him. It is really just an extension of the rule allowing a player to shoot from a dead ball - no teammates involved.


The whole idea of a free kick is to allow the infringed side (note I do not use the word "attacking") to receive an advantage. All too often they are denied the opportunity of taking full advantage of the situation an infringement causes because of the opponent or the referee (understandable if the referee wants to take formal disciplinary action). I'm not sure I like the idea of players being able to play the ball to themselves, the adjustment I would make is to prevent any player on the side of the infringed that is within 10 yards of the ball when a free kick is taken to touch the ball until the ball has travelled 10 yards.

Another change I would introduce is to create/amend a law that says players and their teammates cannot touch the ball if they have conceded a free kick/penalty, or were the last to play the ball in a ball out of play decision. One of my biggest gripes is witnessing players deliberately kick the ball away when they know the ball has gone out of play and they were the last to touch the ball. Prevent them from touching the ball with a mandatory yellow if they do, problem solved.


With the 10 yards thing - simple thing to bring in. If player "self-passes" then no defender can attempt a challenge for 10 yards (as per rugby and Hockey). If a player does, then it's a yellow card.

Would completely stop dissent at a free kick after a while. Especially if a player is fouled on the edge of the box, defender stops to complain to ref, whilst the attacker simply picks up the ball runs in to the box 10 yards and scores.

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Hoop Blah » 21 Jun 2017 11:50

Once they bring in a 60 min clock the game will slow down and become a stop, start, fragmented game like Rugby or American Football.

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Silver Fox » 21 Jun 2017 12:39

Surely the only times the game will be stop-start are the same as now? Except we won't lose playing time when they occur? Personally I think it's an idea fraught with problems but "the game will become American Football" or even worse "the game will become plastic" aren't really 2 of them

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Sutekh » 21 Jun 2017 14:07

Silver Fox wrote:Surely the only times the game will be stop-start are the same as now? Except we won't lose playing time when they occur? Personally I think it's an idea fraught with problems but "the game will become American Football" or even worse "the game will become plastic" aren't really 2 of them


And would ticket prices be reduced by a third seeing as fans would only get 60 minutes of "football" as opposed to 90?

Thought not.

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Silver Fox » 21 Jun 2017 14:19

How many minutes of football do you currently see?

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Scutterbucketz » 21 Jun 2017 14:47

Stranded wrote:
Platypuss wrote:
Stranded wrote:a penalty kick is either scored or missed/saved and players cannot follow up to score to stop encroachment into the penalty area - in relation to the above - makes sense.


This is the only one I have a real issue with - a penalty is really just a freekick and the attacking team should have more of an advantage, not less. Just enforce the existing encroachment rules better.

And stop goalies moving off the line before the ball is struck. No excuses for letting them get away with it.


I took it as only relating to penalties took when the clock is at 0. If it is a proposed general change then yeah, not a fan.


That's already the case when the clock is at zero :?

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Re: More possible FIFA fiddling to ruin the game

by Scutterbucketz » 21 Jun 2017 14:49

The main reason why a lot of the rules won't happen, especially the 60 minute thing, is because they won't translate easily to amateur football and below.

I think FIFA only come up with shit like this just so it looks like they are thinking about the future of football beyond milking it for every penny it's worth.
Last edited by Scutterbucketz on 21 Jun 2017 15:25, edited 1 time in total.

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