Champions League, Europa League & Europa Conference League 23/24

[Franchise FC]

The handball pen decisions last night were pretty bonkers. I don't think either should have been given. They also appeared to change the rules mid-game as United should have had another based on previous decisions (i.e. ball lightly grazing your arm from extremely close range).

Is that the way it is in Europe?

I watch a fair few European league games and they tend to treat handball as not much different to feet in hockey. Touch it and it’s handball

Trouble is, it’s not always

[Winston Biscuit]

Mental that you can effectively have a win taken away from you with a penalty given for that.

Penalties are converted something like 85% of the time. They are being dished out so cheaply now when they end up deciding games so often. It's just all wrong.

[NathStPaul]

If there was ever any doubt that UEFA are a corrupt organisation then last night conclusively proves it. Newcastle were well and truly robbed.

[Winston Biscuit]

My comment is not about the ref getting it wrong btw, I have no idea if he did or didn't follow the letter of the law, and the commentators at the time said the rules are different in the PL compared to CL when it comes to handballs. I just mean for that 'handball' to even be considered something bad enough that the punishment should be a match defining penalty, is so wrong and so far away from what football should be that its bewildering how they have come to this point

What goes through people's heads when they sit down and look at the handball law and decide that what happened last night needs to result in an almost certain goal for the opponent?!

[Winston Biscuit]

I also now see the VAR who judged it to be a pen was due to VAR tonight's Real Sociedad Vs Salzburg match and has now been take off of it, which is what happens when they balls something up.

Dale Johnson, who is my (and surely everyones?!) go to guy on VAR, says it was the position of the arm that meant it shouldn't have been a pen by UEFA's handball law, not the deflection off of the body first

[paultheroyal]

My solution to the handball rule is as follows.

Any handball in the penalty box by a defending player when trajectory of ball is goal bound = penalty

Any other deliberate handball deemed by referee = penalty

Deflections off party parts to hand like last night = no penalty.

[NathStPaul]

Party parts

[Sanguine]

My solution to the handball rule is as follows.

Any handball in the penalty box by a defending player when trajectory of ball is goal bound = penalty

Any other deliberate handball deemed by referee = penalty

Deflections off party parts to hand like last night = no penalty.

I don't think this works. If someone underloads a thunderblaster at goal and it hits a defender's hand, which is in a normal position, before they might reasonably act, that can't be a penalty.

As always (for me at least) - the rules themselves are broadly fine, but the interpretation of them is often awful. This one deflected on to Livramento's hand. Was that discussion at least had by VAR, or missed entirely? If it was noted, why was it determined not to matter?

[NathStPaul]

The best and funniest way to resolve this is to allow deliberate handball's inside the box. Defenders diving full stretch on the line to stop goals going in would be hilarious.

[Winston Biscuit]

I think having more free kicks inside the box rather than pens would go someway to helping make things fairer

[Winston Biscuit]

Celtic have not progressed in a european knockout tie after the group stage for 21 years

[WestYorksRoyal]

I think having more free kicks inside the box rather than pens would go someway to helping make things fairer

But still penalties for deliberate handball? And would you extend it to other offences? For example a clumsy tackle when a player is running away from goal on the byline?

[Winston Biscuit]

I think having more free kicks inside the box rather than pens would go someway to helping make things fairer

But still penalties for deliberate handball? And would you extend it to other offences? For example a clumsy tackle when a player is running away from goal on the byline?

Deliber8 handful pen. Clumsy running away non pen.

[Sanguine]

Celtic have not progressed in a european knockout tie after the group stage for 21 years

That's nine ties, since they got to the UEFA Cup final in 2003, I think.

[6ft Kerplunk]

My solution to the handball rule is as follows.

Any handball in the penalty box by a defending player when trajectory of ball is goal bound = penalty

Any other deliberate handball deemed by referee = penalty

Deflections off party parts to hand like last night = no penalty.

I don't think this works. If someone underloads a thunderblaster at goal and it hits a defender's hand, which is in a normal position, before they might reasonably act, that can't be a penalty.

As always (for me at least) - the rules themselves are broadly fine, but the interpretation of them is often awful. This one deflected on to Livramento's hand. Was that discussion at least had by VAR, or missed entirely? If it was noted, why was it determined not to matter?

Cos UEFA didn't implement the recommendation that deflection off a body part onto a hand shouldn't be a penalty.
I see that UEFA have stood down the VAR official who said the ref should take another look at it, but the ref who changed his mind hasn't. So the person who makes the actual decision doesn't get punished, seems fair...

[Sutekh]

Handball is fairly easy to judge, well at least it was until all the various FAs started their stupid fiddling and destroyed the defensive game a bit more. Someone needs to bang all their stupid heads together and go back to common sense, which most of time gets the right calls.

[Winston Biscuit]

Onana

How on earth did they let De Gea go for him?!

[BRO_BOT]

Onana

How on earth did they let De Gea go for him?!

3-3 now...could easily fook this up as we have to win

[Clyde1998]

Celtic have not progressed in a european knockout tie after the group stage for 21 years

That's nine ties, since they got to the UEFA Cup final in 2003, I think.

They got through two rounds in the following season's UEFA Cup - beating Czech side Teplice and Barcelona before losing to Villarreal in the quarter-finals.

So it's nine ties in a row:
2003-04 - UC - Villarreal - Drew 1-1 (H); Lost 2-0 (A)
2006-07 - CL - Milan - Drew 0-0 (H); Lost 1-0 (A; aet)
2007-08 - CL - Barcelona - Lost 3-2 (H); Lost 1-0 (A)
2012-13 - CL - Juventus - Lost 3-0 (H); Lost 2-0 (A)
2014-15 - EL - Inter - Drew 3-3 (H); Lost 1-0 (A)
2017-18 - EL - Zenit - Won 1-0 (H); Lost 3-0 (A)
2018-19 - EL - Valencia - Lost 2-0 (H); Lost 1-0 (A)
2019-20 - EL - Copenhagen - Drew 1-1 (A); Lost 3-1 (H)
2012-22 - ECL - Bodo/Glimt - Lost 3-1 (H); Lost 2-0 (A)

Incidentally, Rangers have progress through twelve knockout ties in that time - all in the UEFA Cup/Europa League.

[Sanguine]

Celtic have not progressed in a european knockout tie after the group stage for 21 years

That's nine ties, since they got to the UEFA Cup final in 2003, I think.

They got through two rounds in the following season's UEFA Cup - beating Czech side Teplice and Barcelona before losing to Villarreal in the quarter-finals.

So it's nine ties in a row:
2003-04 - UC - Villarreal - Drew 1-1 (H); Lost 2-0 (A)
2006-07 - CL - Milan - Drew 0-0 (H); Lost 1-0 (A; aet)
2007-08 - CL - Barcelona - Lost 3-2 (H); Lost 1-0 (A)
2012-13 - CL - Juventus - Lost 3-0 (H); Lost 2-0 (A)
2014-15 - EL - Inter - Drew 3-3 (H); Lost 1-0 (A)
2017-18 - EL - Zenit - Won 1-0 (H); Lost 3-0 (A)
2018-19 - EL - Valencia - Lost 2-0 (H); Lost 1-0 (A)
2019-20 - EL - Copenhagen - Drew 1-1 (A); Lost 3-1 (H)
2012-22 - ECL - Bodo/Glimt - Lost 3-1 (H); Lost 2-0 (A)

Incidentally, Rangers have progress through twelve knockout ties in that time - all in the UEFA Cup/Europa League.

Quite stunningly crap that they have only won one leg in all that time, nevermind a tie. Just two away goals.