Summer Transfers

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linkenholtroyal
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Re: Summer Transfers

by linkenholtroyal » 11 Jul 2018 11:53

Hound wrote:
John Smith wrote:
Hound wrote:Actually sadly it will prob be Aluko if we play 3. Trying really hard to forget him, almost did

What if...in the same way that Vydra, Grabban, even Piazon to an extent have gone on to be better elsewhere when used 'properly', Clement has an idea for a new system that gets the best out of Aluko. Afterall he was hardly a bad player at Fulham and Hull. One to ponder maybe.


its a fair point. I just don't see how you do 'use him properly'. I think he just isn't very good.

Some chap posted an analysis on here recently, and it pretty much showed stats wise that last season was by no means an outlier for him.

The real problem is what is he? He isn't a winger as he keeps coming inside, he certainly isn't a CM, he is too defensively weak to be a wide midfielder, and too small and weak to be a CF. A number 10? possibly, but I'd rather about 5 or 6 other players ahead of him in that position.

In terms of those other players, Piazon has done about the same, just in a better side, Grabban was obviously played out of position by Stam, and did ok as a CF when played there, and Vydra was clearly a good player, just his confidence completely went after missing a load of sitters


we have not tried him at wing back yet, others have excelled their when they were better suited earlier in there career as a winger (Young and Moses prime example)


would love to see tried even if it fails out of current team

----------------------------------Mannone
--------------Mcshane---------Moore------------ Llori

Yiadom-------------------------Meyler----------------------Aluko

---------------------------------Kelly/Swift

------------------------------------------------ Barrow
-----------------------------------Mcnulty

Royalwaster
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Re: Summer Transfers

by Royalwaster » 11 Jul 2018 12:31

linkenholtroyal wrote:
Hound wrote:
John Smith wrote:What if...in the same way that Vydra, Grabban, even Piazon to an extent have gone on to be better elsewhere when used 'properly', Clement has an idea for a new system that gets the best out of Aluko. Afterall he was hardly a bad player at Fulham and Hull. One to ponder maybe.


its a fair point. I just don't see how you do 'use him properly'. I think he just isn't very good.

Some chap posted an analysis on here recently, and it pretty much showed stats wise that last season was by no means an outlier for him.

The real problem is what is he? He isn't a winger as he keeps coming inside, he certainly isn't a CM, he is too defensively weak to be a wide midfielder, and too small and weak to be a CF. A number 10? possibly, but I'd rather about 5 or 6 other players ahead of him in that position.

In terms of those other players, Piazon has done about the same, just in a better side, Grabban was obviously played out of position by Stam, and did ok as a CF when played there, and Vydra was clearly a good player, just his confidence completely went after missing a load of sitters


we have not tried him at wing back yet, others have excelled their when they were better suited earlier in there career as a winger (Young and Moses prime example)


would love to see tried even if it fails out of current team

----------------------------------Mannone
--------------Mcshane---------Moore------------ Llori

Yiadom-------------------------Meyler----------------------Aluko

---------------------------------Kelly/Swift

------------------------------------------------ Barrow
-----------------------------------Mcnulty


I quite the look of that team ...

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Re: Summer Transfers

by Hound » 11 Jul 2018 12:37

it'd be absolute carnage if the oppo had a decent right winger

If Obita was fit and back to his best, then it could work reasonably well. However, wouldn't play Swift and Kelly, and 2 midgets up front might not be the best targets for the 2 wing backs to aim for

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Re: Summer Transfers

by linkenholtroyal » 11 Jul 2018 13:15

Royalwaster wrote:
linkenholtroyal wrote:
Hound wrote:
its a fair point. I just don't see how you do 'use him properly'. I think he just isn't very good.

Some chap posted an analysis on here recently, and it pretty much showed stats wise that last season was by no means an outlier for him.

The real problem is what is he? He isn't a winger as he keeps coming inside, he certainly isn't a CM, he is too defensively weak to be a wide midfielder, and too small and weak to be a CF. A number 10? possibly, but I'd rather about 5 or 6 other players ahead of him in that position.

In terms of those other players, Piazon has done about the same, just in a better side, Grabban was obviously played out of position by Stam, and did ok as a CF when played there, and Vydra was clearly a good player, just his confidence completely went after missing a load of sitters


we have not tried him at wing back yet, others have excelled their when they were better suited earlier in there career as a winger (Young and Moses prime example)


would love to see tried even if it fails out of current team

----------------------------------Mannone
--------------Mcshane---------Moore------------ Llori

Yiadom-------------------------Meyler----------------------Aluko

---------------------------------Kelly/Swift

------------------------------------------------ Barrow
-----------------------------------Mcnulty


I quite the look of that team ...


It could almost work with second team aswell

--------------------------------Jaakola

------------Andresson-----oshea-----------Blackett

Gunter---------------------Bacuna----------------------Obita

----------------------------Kelly/Swift

----------------------------------------------Meite
----------------------------Bodvarsson

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linkenholtroyal
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Re: Summer Transfers

by linkenholtroyal » 11 Jul 2018 13:16

Hound wrote:it'd be absolute carnage if the oppo had a decent right winger

If Obita was fit and back to his best, then it could work reasonably well. However, wouldn't play Swift and Kelly, and 2 midgets up front might not be the best targets for the 2 wing backs to aim for

It would mean Aluko would need to learn how to track back. it would also work better with a tall target man Baldock shaped would be nice


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Re: Summer Transfers

by NewCorkSeth » 11 Jul 2018 13:23

We don't have the players for that formation. It's weak sauce. The best first team with the players we have is a 4-3-2-1.

Belgium showed last night the issues with persisting with a 3 at the back system with wingbacks when you don't have the players for it! They had one player suspended and their defense struggled (yes Bobby Martinez is not known for organising a defense but the point stands)

If a team with defenders as quality as Kompany, Alderweireld and Vertonghen can't cope with sub-par wing backs then how would we cope?

All it would take is one good winger to exploit our entire defense and one long term injury to throw our season into turmoil.

We have the players for 4 at the back and we should stick to it.

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Re: Summer Transfers

by John Smith » 11 Jul 2018 13:35

linkenholtroyal wrote:
It could almost work with second team aswell

--------------------------------Jaakola

------------Andresson-----oshea-----------Blackett

Gunter---------------------Bacuna----------------------Obita


Really interesting to see you put him in the second team. Is that what we think Clement is going to do?

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Re: Summer Transfers

by Tilehurstsouthbank » 11 Jul 2018 13:54

linkenholtroyal wrote:
Hound wrote:
John Smith wrote:What if...in the same way that Vydra, Grabban, even Piazon to an extent have gone on to be better elsewhere when used 'properly', Clement has an idea for a new system that gets the best out of Aluko. Afterall he was hardly a bad player at Fulham and Hull. One to ponder maybe.


its a fair point. I just don't see how you do 'use him properly'. I think he just isn't very good.

Some chap posted an analysis on here recently, and it pretty much showed stats wise that last season was by no means an outlier for him.

The real problem is what is he? He isn't a winger as he keeps coming inside, he certainly isn't a CM, he is too defensively weak to be a wide midfielder, and too small and weak to be a CF. A number 10? possibly, but I'd rather about 5 or 6 other players ahead of him in that position.

In terms of those other players, Piazon has done about the same, just in a better side, Grabban was obviously played out of position by Stam, and did ok as a CF when played there, and Vydra was clearly a good player, just his confidence completely went after missing a load of sitters


we have not tried him at wing back yet, others have excelled their when they were better suited earlier in there career as a winger (Young and Moses prime example)


would love to see tried even if it fails out of current team

----------------------------------Mannone
--------------Mcshane---------Moore------------ Llori

Yiadom-------------------------Meyler----------------------Aluko

---------------------------------Kelly/Swift

------------------------------------------------ Barrow
-----------------------------------Mcnulty


Can you really see Aluko performing the defensive side of a WB's duties? :shock:

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Re: Summer Transfers

by Hound » 11 Jul 2018 13:56

FWIW, I suspect we'll line up something like this for the start of the season

Mannone
Yiadom Moore Ilori/McShane Gunter
Meyler
Bacuna Swift
Barrow New Striker Aluko

Anssi Blackett Kelly Popa/Meite Ilori/McShane Edwards/Clement McNulty

With Bod coming back into it when fully fit

the fact that is leaving out Richards, Evans, Edwards/Clement, O Shea, Meite/Popa, Harriott, Holmes, Rinomhota, Loader, Smith, McCleary and Obita shows what a ridiculously bloated squad we have at the moment


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Re: Summer Transfers

by NewCorkSeth » 11 Jul 2018 14:00

Hound wrote:FWIW, I suspect we'll line up something like this for the start of the season

Mannone
Yiadom Moore Ilori/McShane Gunter
Meyler
Bacuna Swift
Barrow New Striker Aluko

Anssi Blackett Kelly Popa/Meite Ilori/McShane Edwards/Clement McNulty

With Bod coming back into it when fully fit

the fact that is leaving out Richards, Evans, Edwards/Clement, O Shea, Meite/Popa, Harriott, Holmes, Rinomhota, Loader, Smith, McCleary and Obita shows what a ridiculously bloated squad we have at the moment

FWIW that is almost exactly what I expect save I can imagine Bod starting.
Holmes, Rinomhota, Loader and Smith should all be available for loan.

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Re: Summer Transfers

by Hound » 11 Jul 2018 14:21

yeah Bod will start if we don't sign anyone else I'd think.

Would hope Popa, Meite or Harriott have a great pre-season and persuade PC to pick them over Aluko, but not too optimistic

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Re: Summer Transfers

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Jul 2018 14:39

To be a wing back you need to have some positional sense. Given Aluko can't even manage the simplest responsibility of staying wide, I don't think he'd be even remotely good as a wing back.

If he had half a brain and a knack for scoring he might make a decent No 10 for a free role, but he doesn't and Barrow's twice the threat for that sort of role.

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Re: Summer Transfers

by linkenholtroyal » 11 Jul 2018 17:37

John Smith wrote:
linkenholtroyal wrote:
It could almost work with second team aswell

--------------------------------Jaakola

------------Andresson-----oshea-----------Blackett

Gunter---------------------Bacuna----------------------Obita


Really interesting to see you put him in the second team. Is that what we think Clement is going to do?

I am not sure to be honest but I felt he would yiadom would play the wing back position better.


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Re: Summer Transfers

by linkenholtroyal » 11 Jul 2018 17:40

Snowflake Royal wrote:To be a wing back you need to have some positional sense. Given Aluko can't even manage the simplest responsibility of staying wide, I don't think he'd be even remotely good as a wing back.

If he had half a brain and a knack for scoring he might make a decent No 10 for a free role, but he doesn't and Barrow's twice the threat for that sort of role.

Tbh I think i am just trying to find a position for someone that realistically is just sh1t. It would be best for all parties if he moved on but I don't think anyone would want him.

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Re: Summer Transfers

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Jul 2018 18:33

linkenholtroyal wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:To be a wing back you need to have some positional sense. Given Aluko can't even manage the simplest responsibility of staying wide, I don't think he'd be even remotely good as a wing back.

If he had half a brain and a knack for scoring he might make a decent No 10 for a free role, but he doesn't and Barrow's twice the threat for that sort of role.

Tbh I think i am just trying to find a position for someone that realistically is just sh1t. It would be best for all parties if he moved on but I don't think anyone would want him.

Thing is, he's obviously not shit, he's quite obviously got skill. It's his application of that skill which is atrocious.

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Re: Summer Transfers

by linkenholtroyal » 11 Jul 2018 22:16

Snowflake Royal wrote:
linkenholtroyal wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:To be a wing back you need to have some positional sense. Given Aluko can't even manage the simplest responsibility of staying wide, I don't think he'd be even remotely good as a wing back.

If he had half a brain and a knack for scoring he might make a decent No 10 for a free role, but he doesn't and Barrow's twice the threat for that sort of role.

Tbh I think i am just trying to find a position for someone that realistically is just sh1t. It would be best for all parties if he moved on but I don't think anyone would want him.

Thing is, he's obviously not shit, he's quite obviously got skill. It's his application of that skill which is atrocious.

That is like say I have the ability to be good at pealing potatoes. But I don’t have a peeler and I am allergic to starch.

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Re: Summer Transfers

by NewCorkSeth » 12 Jul 2018 10:27

linkenholtroyal wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:
linkenholtroyal wrote:Tbh I think i am just trying to find a position for someone that realistically is just sh1t. It would be best for all parties if he moved on but I don't think anyone would want him.

Thing is, he's obviously not shit, he's quite obviously got skill. It's his application of that skill which is atrocious.

That is like say I have the ability to be good at pealing potatoes. But I don’t have a peeler and I am allergic to starch.

Well.. It's not is it.. Ian is correct in saying Aluko has all the technical and physical ability to be good but has been horrendous at applying those attributes for Reading.

If he had a manager or captain who would force him to stay out on the oxf*rd wing where he should be instead of farting about in some sort of free roaming playmaker role he could have brought a lot to this squad.

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Re: Summer Transfers

by russyb » 12 Jul 2018 10:34

linkenholtroyal wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:
linkenholtroyal wrote:Tbh I think i am just trying to find a position for someone that realistically is just sh1t. It would be best for all parties if he moved on but I don't think anyone would want him.

Thing is, he's obviously not shit, he's quite obviously got skill. It's his application of that skill which is atrocious.

That is like say I have the ability to be good at pealing potatoes. But I don’t have a peeler and I am allergic to starch.


For me its the simple things that Clement should be looking at and working with the indivduals here. for example Popa is pretty good at getting down the wing to put a cross in.... but his crossing isn't always that great, so simply work with the player lets focus on the last part of the delivery and improve that player. Same with Aluko lets work on what you need to be more effective in the position your playing in or work out on staying wide and what that can bring to the table. Small tweaks to a player here and there can make a huge difference.

I'll fetch my potato peeler now :-)

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Re: Summer Transfers

by Stockport Royal » 12 Jul 2018 10:47

linkenholtroyal wrote:
Hound wrote:it'd be absolute carnage if the oppo had a decent right winger

If Obita was fit and back to his best, then it could work reasonably well. However, wouldn't play Swift and Kelly, and 2 midgets up front might not be the best targets for the 2 wing backs to aim for

It would mean Aluko would need to learn how to track back. it would also work better with a tall target man Baldock shaped would be nice


Presume this is a whoosh?
5ft 7?

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Re: Summer Transfers

by linkenholtroyal » 12 Jul 2018 15:45

russyb wrote:
linkenholtroyal wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:Thing is, he's obviously not shit, he's quite obviously got skill. It's his application of that skill which is atrocious.

That is like say I have the ability to be good at pealing potatoes. But I don’t have a peeler and I am allergic to starch.


For me its the simple things that Clement should be looking at and working with the indivduals here. for example Popa is pretty good at getting down the wing to put a cross in.... but his crossing isn't always that great, so simply work with the player lets focus on the last part of the delivery and improve that player. Same with Aluko lets work on what you need to be more effective in the position your playing in or work out on staying wide and what that can bring to the table. Small tweaks to a player here and there can make a huge difference.

I'll fetch my potato peeler now :-)

I will Believe it when I see it, He just seemed to have so many attributes lacking. crossing, awareness and positioning is a tall order in one pre season, you may want to get him some rubber gloves aswell helps with the starch. (FYI I have a mate who is allergic to starch is always hilarious when he peels potatoes, goggles, pink marigold gloves and he has to kind of lean in keeping it away from his body. looks like he is doing the conga over the kitchen sink in a psychedelic get up.)

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