How long does Clement have?

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How long does Clement have?

by KentRoyal » 06 Oct 2018 18:01

We are f*cking Sh*t. Surely someone has to convince Gourlay to sack his best mate

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by Zip » 06 Oct 2018 18:14

Not long. Lose the next two and I don’t think it will be sustainable for him to stay. I like him and want him to turn it around but I dont think he can.
We desperately need a settled side. Injuries are not helping but we have a big squad. He is also unwilling to give young players a chance. He also has his favourites. We are relying on a forward who technically isn’t good enough and hasn’t scored a single goal at this level.

I would also question what the hell is going on in training. We concede far too many soft goals. We also seem to pick up a lot of injuries in training.
His inability to motivate the team is also evident. We went into the QPR game on a slight upturn and were up against a team in very poor form. We should have been down their throats in the opening stages but barely got hold of the ball.

Factor in the alarming slide in attendances and miserable home performances and I can see it getting ugly pretty soon.

Up next a fast improving Millwall team. I can see them turning us over. It may well be the final straw.

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by Lower West » 06 Oct 2018 18:30

Clinging on to the hope that a new manager is going to save the day makes little sense. Time to rebuild. To move forward we need to suffer the bad performances.

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by Zip » 06 Oct 2018 18:34

Lower West wrote:Clinging on to the hope that a new manager is going to save the day makes little sense. Time to rebuild. To move forward we need to suffer the bad performances.


Ok. At what point do you say it’s time to go? Do you give Clement the entire season even if it means we go down? I think it would be very painful for us as a club to go back down to the lower divisions.

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by KentRoyal » 06 Oct 2018 18:35

Zip wrote:
Lower West wrote:Clinging on to the hope that a new manager is going to save the day makes little sense. Time to rebuild. To move forward we need to suffer the bad performances.


Ok. At what point do you say it’s time to go? Do you give Clement the entire season even if it means we go down? I think it would be very painful for us as a club to go back down to the lower divisions.

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by Lower West » 06 Oct 2018 21:24

Zip wrote:
Lower West wrote:Clinging on to the hope that a new manager is going to save the day makes little sense. Time to rebuild. To move forward we need to suffer the bad performances.


Ok. At what point do you say it’s time to go? Do you give Clement the entire season even if it means we go down? I think it would be very painful for us as a club to go back down to the lower divisions.


I went to watch Swindon vs Northampton Town today. I saw less talented players on both sides put in more commitment and effort than a huge number of Reading players in the past two seasons. Football wasn't pretty. But at least you couldn't accuse any single player of not putting in a shift for their teammates. Managers cannot change the mentality of individuals. Too many passengers in the Reading squad in my personal opinion. Dropping a division would at least enable Clement to blood our own youth. Rather than speculate on the next overpaid prima donna journeyman.

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by Zip » 06 Oct 2018 21:56

Lower West wrote:
Zip wrote:
Lower West wrote:Clinging on to the hope that a new manager is going to save the day makes little sense. Time to rebuild. To move forward we need to suffer the bad performances.


Ok. At what point do you say it’s time to go? Do you give Clement the entire season even if it means we go down? I think it would be very painful for us as a club to go back down to the lower divisions.


I went to watch Swindon vs Northampton Town today. I saw less talented players on both sides put in more commitment and effort than a huge number of Reading players in the past two seasons. Football wasn't pretty. But at least you couldn't accuse any single player of not putting in a shift for their teammates. Managers cannot change the mentality of individuals. Too many passengers in the Reading squad in my personal opinion. Dropping a division would at least enable Clement to blood our own youth. Rather than speculate on the next overpaid prima donna journeyman.


The trouble is we have no guarantee Clement would do that. He may still prefer playing overpaid prima donna journeymen over our youth. He could be giving Southwood, Loader and Rinomhota a chance now but he is unwilling to do so. This is part of the concern I have. Going down doesn’t necessarily equate to our academy lads suddenly playing for the first team.

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by sandman » 06 Oct 2018 22:14

Perhaps he should put the young players in just to prove they aren't ready. I remember people telling Benitez when he was at Real Madrid that he should drop Casemiro against Barcelona because Casemiro was too defensive. He did, they got pasted, at the Bernabeu and the fans suddenly realised that having a defensive midfielder in the team was quite a good idea.

Sometimes fans need to be shown things like this to get them to realise things like "chuck the youngsters in, at least they care" is not the simple answer they think it is. Might be a risky option for Clement though, Casemiro never played for Benitez again because making that point lost Benitez his job.

That said I do want Loader to be given a chance over Mcnulty
Last edited by sandman on 07 Oct 2018 05:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by Top Flight » 07 Oct 2018 00:35

Zip wrote:
Lower West wrote:Clinging on to the hope that a new manager is going to save the day makes little sense. Time to rebuild. To move forward we need to suffer the bad performances.


Ok. At what point do you say it’s time to go? Do you give Clement the entire season even if it means we go down? I think it would be very painful for us as a club to go back down to the lower divisions.


Zip, it is not Clements fault that results are bad. This is the result of a number of years of poor management and recruitment. Any manager we appoint will suffer bad results until he can get this ship turned around. There is no quick fix to this mess. We have to be patient and give Clement our full support. The fans in the stand at West Brom today showed more intelligence than you. They were not asking for Clement to be sacked. It is the board and Gourlay that they want out. Because that is where the poor decisions have come from. Clement needs our support. Let's give it to him. He is a top coach, a good manager and a very straight and honest man. If we can't back a guy like that then we have no chance as a club.


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Re: How long does Clement have?

by Ranty McRantface » 07 Oct 2018 02:20

Top Flight wrote:
Zip wrote:
Lower West wrote:Clinging on to the hope that a new manager is going to save the day makes little sense. Time to rebuild. To move forward we need to suffer the bad performances.


Ok. At what point do you say it’s time to go? Do you give Clement the entire season even if it means we go down? I think it would be very painful for us as a club to go back down to the lower divisions.


Zip, it is not Clements fault that results are bad. This is the result of a number of years of poor management and recruitment. Any manager we appoint will suffer bad results until he can get this ship turned around. There is no quick fix to this mess. We have to be patient and give Clement our full support. The fans in the stand at West Brom today showed more intelligence than you. They were not asking for Clement to be sacked. It is the board and Gourlay that they want out. Because that is where the poor decisions have come from. Clement needs our support. Let's give it to him. He is a top coach, a good manager and a very straight and honest man. If we can't back a guy like that then we have no chance as a club.


It's not all Clement's fault but it is partly his fault. He picks the team, does the team talk, sets up tactics and directs the training. He's got the team selection and tactics wrong on occasion.

As for the he's a good manager comment. What the hell has he done as a manager exactly? He's never won anything and has just worked with great managers.

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by DOYLERSAROYALER » 07 Oct 2018 07:39

Remember in his time at the great clubs he was a coach to Ancellotti and as such took direction from him on tactics and training methods such that the overall responsibility for results was at Ancellotti's door.

Secondly its easy to coach squads full of high/world class players such as those that were at Bayern Madrid and Chelsea.

Now hes the bloke in the hot seat having to decide the coaching methods and tactics for a group of far less talented players and he is struggling. So for all the.experience he had as a coach at great teams, it counts for nothing in his role as Reading manager imho

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by Zip » 07 Oct 2018 10:23

Top Flight wrote:
Zip wrote:
Lower West wrote:Clinging on to the hope that a new manager is going to save the day makes little sense. Time to rebuild. To move forward we need to suffer the bad performances.


Ok. At what point do you say it’s time to go? Do you give Clement the entire season even if it means we go down? I think it would be very painful for us as a club to go back down to the lower divisions.


Zip, it is not Clements fault that results are bad. This is the result of a number of years of poor management and recruitment. Any manager we appoint will suffer bad results until he can get this ship turned around. There is no quick fix to this mess. We have to be patient and give Clement our full support. The fans in the stand at West Brom today showed more intelligence than you. They were not asking for Clement to be sacked. It is the board and Gourlay that they want out. Because that is where the poor decisions have come from. Clement needs our support. Let's give it to him. He is a top coach, a good manager and a very straight and honest man. If we can't back a guy like that then we have no chance as a club.


So on the basis of what you are saying we should not have sacked Stam, McDermott, Clarke etc. Just because Clement is straight doesn’t mean he is a good manager. He was sacked at Derby and Swansea in his second season at both. Where is his good management record? What evidence is there that he is a good manager?

You cannot simply just blame Gourlay and the boardroom. Team selection is down to Clement. The way the team is set up is down to Clement. Silly individual mistakes by the likes of McShane, Mannone and Walker are not down to the boardroom. The lack of fitness within the squad is down to Clement and his coaching team.

There is an assumption that no one else can come in and do better than this. I strongly disagree.

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by Old Man Andrews » 07 Oct 2018 12:57

Tuesday and yesterdays shit show were 95% Clements fault. Would agree early on in the season he was largely blameless but he's looked out of his depth this last week. He's a coach not a football manager.


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Re: How long does Clement have?

by 2 world wars, 1 world cup » 07 Oct 2018 13:21

I honestly really never entertained the idea of Clement going until now.

Regardless of the club being a shambles, Gourlay, finances etc etc he does have some responsibility. To do shit last season (honeymoon performances kept us up) shit in preseason and shit this season you have to be shit, or at least not the right fit.

We need someone who is a motivator right now.

Parj was wise enough to realise this when we were doing badly. He got mad dog to rally kick the players up the backside, then when things got back on track he got rid of him.

For now we need someone tough to just stabilise things and get them to fight for a safe midtable. Then we can start reassessing and talking about promotion and thinking about the changes in personnel required for that.

It seems right now we're still living with this fairyland idea that we need a couple of tweaks to be promotion candidates and so are totally getting the wrong staff in.

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by Lower West » 07 Oct 2018 17:30

2 world wars, 1 world cup wrote:It seems right now we're still living with this fairyland idea that we need a couple of tweaks to be promotion candidates and so are totally getting the wrong staff in.


Hopefully few supporters are that deluded.

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by 2 world wars, 1 world cup » 07 Oct 2018 19:13

Lower West wrote:
2 world wars, 1 world cup wrote:It seems right now we're still living with this fairyland idea that we need a couple of tweaks to be promotion candidates and so are totally getting the wrong staff in.


Hopefully few supporters are that deluded.


Agreed.

But part of me wonders if the owners are. I can just imagine they are hiding abroad somewher thinking "cool ok we were a penalty away from the PL so we are a PL team. All we need is a cheesy music video and someone who knows how to do well when in the PL (because that's what we are in reality).. so let's get Gourlay with his big PL ideas and let's get a big name but inexperienced manager, when he doesn't work out let's change him to someone else who will get our PL team to play PL football, let the overpaid players believe it too "

No, owners, no.

No, no no no no. We are shit little Reading and we have been ever since Madejski bottled it in the PL. We are especially shit now. Our players are mostly shit. Our attendance is shit. Everything is shit. What we need is a tough no nonsense manager to give this group of shit league one players some belief and fight for the right to play Championship football. We need coaches who can teach our players the basics in defending. We need backroom staff who can spot bargains and develop and encourage our players. Then one day we will be on a roll and make it to the PL. That is the Reading way.

We're going about this the wrong way with our staff both on and off the pitch.

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by Top Flight » 08 Oct 2018 03:44

Zip wrote:
Top Flight wrote:
Zip wrote:


So on the basis of what you are saying we should not have sacked Stam, McDermott, Clarke etc.


We definitely should not have sacked McDermott. That was an appalling decision.

Regarding Clarke, we sacked him because he went to speak to Fulham. We lost trust in Clarke. As soon as any old club wanted to have a chat with him he went and talked. So Clarke had to go. If that episode had never have happened then definitely Clarke should not have been fired if it was based purely on the football side of things.

Stam, sadly had to go as well. Mainly because the football played is not what the Reading public want to see. We want blood and thunder championship football played with guts, energy and intensity. Similar to what Brentford are doing at the moment. The Stam football, even when it was producing good results bored everyone to death. It was painful to watch and not enjoyable at all. The number of times I literally fell asleep at the Mad Stad during those two seasons, Stam had to go.

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Oct 2018 07:43

Yeah.

Adkins: 50/50 not convinced it was that bad and he was scapegoated for Anton's mess. We hadn't spent years proving sackings didn't work though.
Clarke: Position untenable. His success was built on Blackman being in the form of his life which had already ended too, we were nose diving
McDermott2: Dreadful decision unless there were big behind the scenes issues
Stam: Position untenable. Huge difference in results between seasons, awful inflexible style putting needless pressure on us with no drive to score.

Clement may still be getting shit results, but he's changed the style to one that involves trying to win and not playing the game in our own box. It is the players that are letting us down and many of Clements signings look like our best players. Plus the weight of years of underperformance and losing now present a huge amount of inertia to turn around compared to that facing those who went before.

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Oct 2018 08:10

Snowflake Royal wrote:Yeah.

Adkins: 50/50 not convinced it was that bad and he was scapegoated for Anton's mess. We hadn't spent years proving sackings didn't work though.
Clarke: Position untenable. His success was built on Blackman being in the form of his life which had already ended too, we were nose diving
McDermott2: Dreadful decision unless there were big behind the scenes issues
Stam: Position untenable. Huge difference in results between seasons, awful inflexible style putting needless pressure on us with no drive to score.

Clement may still be getting shit results, but he's changed the style to one that involves trying to win and not playing the game in our own box. It is the players that are letting us down and many of Clements signings look like our best players. Plus the weight of years of underperformance and losing now present a huge amount of inertia to turn around compared to that facing those who went before.


So you'd like us to sack the players then?

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Re: How long does Clement have?

by Ranty McRantface » 08 Oct 2018 08:25

Old Man Andrews wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:Yeah.

Adkins: 50/50 not convinced it was that bad and he was scapegoated for Anton's mess. We hadn't spent years proving sackings didn't work though.
Clarke: Position untenable. His success was built on Blackman being in the form of his life which had already ended too, we were nose diving
McDermott2: Dreadful decision unless there were big behind the scenes issues
Stam: Position untenable. Huge difference in results between seasons, awful inflexible style putting needless pressure on us with no drive to score.

Clement may still be getting shit results, but he's changed the style to one that involves trying to win and not playing the game in our own box. It is the players that are letting us down and many of Clements signings look like our best players. Plus the weight of years of underperformance and losing now present a huge amount of inertia to turn around compared to that facing those who went before.


So you'd like us to sack the players then?


Clement's signings are our best players?

Walker - not good enough
Meyler - not good enough
McNulty - doesn't play
Baldock - not done enough
Yiadom - agree
O'Shea - played 1 game
Sims - doesn't play enough
Eza - he's been ok so far.

And he's loaned last season's top scorer out to Holland.

He also said that he wanted to have more leaders in the starting 11 yet we look devoid of any leadership on and off the pitch.

He's not totally to blame for this mess but he and people like you can't use the backroom shenanigans to cover Clement's mistakes.

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