Is Kelly off?

[Stranded]

I'll be happy to be wrong if he is successful out there. Just can't see him getting game time or being good enough to play in a top European league against the likes of Pjanic, Dybala, Matuidi etc.

According to J-Lo's article, Udinese had scouts over to watch him in the United game. He was very impressive that day, so maybe it was a bit of a shop window performance...

Also says it would be loan with a view to a permanent move.

[Hound]

I'll be happy to be wrong if he is successful out there. Just can't see him getting game time or being good enough to play in a top European league against the likes of Pjanic, Dybala, Matuidi etc.

According to J-Lo's article, Udinese had scouts over to watch him in the United game. He was very impressive that day, so maybe it was a bit of a shop window performance...

Also says it would be loan with a view to a permanent move.

Would be great all round really. Sounds like he is not happy about not playing. Would hopefully get a few quid for him

https://www.football.london/reading-fc/ ... y-15745941

[NewCorkSeth]

Huh. That seems odd. Still. He hasn't been consistent or even good for a long time so if he can go out there and rediscover his form good for him. I hope it works out and thinks it's great he's choosing to go abroad.

[andrew1957]

I think he could do very well in Italy. As Stam said he is a "world class" passer of the ball but perhaps not best suited to the physicality of the Championship. Udinese would be a great opportunity for him.

[Royal_jimmy]

A surprising move if it happens. Shame as he showed lots of promise but hasn't built on his season 2 years ago

[OLLIE KEARNS]

I think he could do very well in Italy. As Stam said he is a "world class" passer of the ball but perhaps not best suited to the physicality of the Championship. Udinese would be a great opportunity for him.

In all honesty he isn't anywhere near a world class passer of the ball. Most of his passes are short, sideways balls in the defensive third when he has very little pressure on him. When he engages in the middle / final third then his passing becomes very hit and miss with balls often drilled at team mates. making it very difficult for them This makes him somewhat easy on the eye but in reality means he is ineffective overall. Oliver Norwood was better than Kelly in my view but he had similar tendencies.
On top of that he obviously has physical issues defensively and I'd also question his work rate, not so much this season actually, but in last years relegation battle he was lethargic to say the least.
Stams praise may have been the worst thing that could have happened to him. I hope he uses the next few months to reflect on his shortcomings, put game time to good use and come back a better player.

[Snowflake Royal]

Seems a tad odd to me as with Edwards gone and Meyler out of the picture and the Iranian guy still crocked a couple more injuries could leave us with very few options in midfield.

Yep. Think he's had a hard time from the fans and his teammates.

He's not been great, but I've rarely seen him have a particularly poor game despite what the loanees might say. Certainly nowhere near as bas as some of shi(f)ts Swift, Bacuna and Meyler have put in. Although in fairness Swift and Bacuna have probably hit some better heights.

I thought he was excellent against Utd and hard done by not to get another game afterwards. The difference in his performance having a genuinely good partner in Rino alongside him was marked.

Only question marks for me are his size - he can't carry the ball forward very quickly, and his mental side given he thought we were never in danger last season.

At least a loan is better for him and us than him being ignored or sold.

I'm not sure if that was planned as a strong defence of him and a reason to keep him but if boils down to, he hasn't been as shit at time as some other players - who have also shown they can play better - then getting him out of the club for a while is probably best for all concerned.

He is a good player but a lot of the time he is too slow with his decision making, if we are looking to play a dynamic passing game pushing the ball up the pitch quickly, then he simply doesn't fit and it would seem Gomes has seen that but may also see that he could fit. No player involved in the last 2 years is irreplaceable regardless of if we bought him or he came through the ranks. Kelly is no different and some time away may improve him so that he is either brought back in or sold for a relatively decent fee in the summer.

Hard to put up a strong defence of all but one of our players. I think his decision making has been slow because so many of the team have been terrible at showing for the ball. It's beaten the instinctive pass out of most of them.

He'd still be in my match day squad. But at least this way he might get games in a less (formerly?) toxic environment.

[NewCorkSeth]

Yep. Think he's had a hard time from the fans and his teammates.

He's not been great, but I've rarely seen him have a particularly poor game despite what the loanees might say. Certainly nowhere near as bas as some of shi(f)ts Swift, Bacuna and Meyler have put in. Although in fairness Swift and Bacuna have probably hit some better heights.

I thought he was excellent against Utd and hard done by not to get another game afterwards. The difference in his performance having a genuinely good partner in Rino alongside him was marked.

Only question marks for me are his size - he can't carry the ball forward very quickly, and his mental side given he thought we were never in danger last season.

At least a loan is better for him and us than him being ignored or sold.

I'm not sure if that was planned as a strong defence of him and a reason to keep him but if boils down to, he hasn't been as shit at time as some other players - who have also shown they can play better - then getting him out of the club for a while is probably best for all concerned.

He is a good player but a lot of the time he is too slow with his decision making, if we are looking to play a dynamic passing game pushing the ball up the pitch quickly, then he simply doesn't fit and it would seem Gomes has seen that but may also see that he could fit. No player involved in the last 2 years is irreplaceable regardless of if we bought him or he came through the ranks. Kelly is no different and some time away may improve him so that he is either brought back in or sold for a relatively decent fee in the summer.

Hard to put up a strong defence of all but one of our players. I think his decision making has been slow because so many of the team have been terrible at showing for the ball. It's beaten the instinctive pass out of most of them.

He'd still be in my match day squad. But at least this way he might get games in a less (formerly?) toxic environment.

I still strongly disagree with you on that. Too many times in the previous half of the season he was the on guilty of not showing for the ball and too many times in the last 2 seasons he has chosen the Hollywood ball. I firmly believe he was the man who affected his game the most.

[Getthebeerens]

Would be a great move for Kelly if the Udinese rumour is true. Cant help but feel something went wrong with is development once he hit the first team. When he came into the side he was a good passer, could run with ball pretty well and off the ball would be nipping at peoples ankles to win it back. But the Kelly of this season does not track his man and passes the ball sideways every time.

Agree with the manager and would not be disappointing if we do sell him, a bit like Illori on his day can be superb but cant deliver on the quality week in week out.

[Hound]

Not to dig the boot in, but I just never really 'got' him as a player. I don't really know what he does, in terms of what would be his strong characteristics

He's an ok all round midfielder - can tackle a bit, on his day a reasonable work rate. Obviously a good shot on occasions, but not more than once or twice a season.

But I can't really remember him creating any assists, or many defence splitting passes. He isn't quick, not only is he obviously short, but he is also pretty weak. Couple of suggestions of questionable attitude

Just not for me really - but good luck to him elsewhere

[Sutekh]

I'll be happy to be wrong if he is successful out there. Just can't see him getting game time or being good enough to play in a top European league against the likes of Pjanic, Dybala, Matuidi etc.

According to J-Lo's article, Udinese had scouts over to watch him in the United game. He was very impressive that day, so maybe it was a bit of a shop window performance...

Hope he goes and rises to the occasion and gets good reviews though would expect him to be no more than a regular sub at best.

[Snowflake Royal]

I'm not sure if that was planned as a strong defence of him and a reason to keep him but if boils down to, he hasn't been as shit at time as some other players - who have also shown they can play better - then getting him out of the club for a while is probably best for all concerned.

He is a good player but a lot of the time he is too slow with his decision making, if we are looking to play a dynamic passing game pushing the ball up the pitch quickly, then he simply doesn't fit and it would seem Gomes has seen that but may also see that he could fit. No player involved in the last 2 years is irreplaceable regardless of if we bought him or he came through the ranks. Kelly is no different and some time away may improve him so that he is either brought back in or sold for a relatively decent fee in the summer.

Hard to put up a strong defence of all but one of our players. I think his decision making has been slow because so many of the team have been terrible at showing for the ball. It's beaten the instinctive pass out of most of them.

He'd still be in my match day squad. But at least this way he might get games in a less (formerly?) toxic environment.

I still strongly disagree with you on that. Too many times in the previous half of the season he was the on guilty of not showing for the ball and too many times in the last 2 seasons he has chosen the Hollywood ball. I firmly believe he was the man who affected his game the most.

We know you and I see Kelly and Swift completely differently and no amount of discussing it more will change that.

[NewCorkSeth]

Hard to put up a strong defence of all but one of our players. I think his decision making has been slow because so many of the team have been terrible at showing for the ball. It's beaten the instinctive pass out of most of them.

He'd still be in my match day squad. But at least this way he might get games in a less (formerly?) toxic environment.

I still strongly disagree with you on that. Too many times in the previous half of the season he was the on guilty of not showing for the ball and too many times in the last 2 seasons he has chosen the Hollywood ball. I firmly believe he was the man who affected his game the most.

We know you and I see Kelly and Swift completely differently and no amount of discussing it more will change that.

But it could change our lives forever?

[Brain Traysers]

I think he is the kind of player who will look great surrounded by good players, but unable to perform in a bad team.

Always had a soft spot for him - while he has been disappointing in the last 18 months, he has done incredibly well to make it as an academy product and I think that missing perspective is really important (this is a much longer post than anticipated). We shouldn't forget that before his breakthrough under Stam, the highest level he had played at was 16 games at National League South (henceforth NLS - 6th tier) as a 20 year old. To have made 75 appearances with us in the 2nd tier, in spite of his stature, tells a lot about his technical ability. Put another way, if we had plucked someone from non league 3 years ago who went on to play as much as Kelly, we would be heralding them as a bargain.

When we look at others coming through he academy around the same time, he stands out as one of the better stories. Selected loans (players who looked like they may have a RFC first team career at some point) since 2013/14:
- Hector - Had already had a number of football league loans between 2012-2013, then performed well at SPL with Aberdeen in 2013/14. 50 odd games for us later before a big money move to Chelsea. Aside from a spell in Germany, he has settled as a Championship player with a similar number of Championship appearances to Kelly in the last 3 seasons. At 26 now, needs to find his way out of the Chelsea loan club. A success story, and probably has done better than Kelly overall (albeit it 3 years older).
- Obita - Loans to League 1 (L1) and League 2 (L2) before breaking through here. 164 games and some horrible injuries later, a definite success story, and better than Kelly. I hope he has a future.
- Samuel - Loans to league 1, 2 and Championship but only a handful of games with us before stepping down to L1 Blackburn for a modest fee- now seemingly not in first team contention following promotion back to the Championship after more injuries. Unfortunately only limited success imo.
- D'Ath - Loans at League 1 and 2 before a free transfer to Northampton, has settled at League 2. A long way behind Kelly.
- Ugwu - loans to Conference, L1 and L2 before free transfer to Scotland and L2/NL football since.
- Tshibola - Looked great in his 13 games with us after a very successful loan at L2 (remember - 2 levels higher than Kelly's only prior first team experience). Disastrous move to Villa (but good money for us) but potentially back on track this season out in Scotland. Too early to write off, but probably should be doing better than Kelly given his start here and big move.
- Tanner - Loans to L2 before a handful of games with the first team, looked ok but also lacked physique. Free transfer to Motherwell, did well last season.
- Hyam - loans to National league south, L2 and national league - never made his debut with us. Free transfer to Coventry and 50 games later, still in and around the first team in League one after promotion last season.
- Taylor - broke though with 36 games for us, after loans at L2, L1 and SPL. Free transfer to Exeter and seemingly doing well at L2.
- Kuhl - Loans to SPL and the national league only resulted in a handful of games. Horrible injury record and currently out of the game. I hope he can one day make it as a pro.
- Cardwell - Loans to national league resulted in a handful of games. Free transfer to Grimsby in L2 where he isn't first team.
- Long (Sean) - Loans to L2, National League before free transfer to Lincoln - currently in L2 with Cheltenham.
- Fosu - Loans at League 1 and 2 before a solo (yet impressive) appearance for us. Never got into the team again, but 50+ games at L1 for Charlton after an undisclosed, likely nominal, fee.
- Stacey - Loans at L2 before a permanent move to Luton, again a likely nominal undisclosed fee. Nearly 80 games later and converted to full back, looks to have a promising future.
- Dickie - loans to NLS, NL and L2 before another undisclosed fee and only a handful of games at L2 O*ford last season.

Tennai Watson and Omar Richards are a few years younger so hard to judge yet - both could go either way.

Liam Kelly - one of our most successful academy products ever. Possibly the most successful (certainly in my time) to have come through the ranks from a young age - since he was 9. Obita (since he was 8 ) probably slightly shades it. For comparison: Pearce (13), Gylfi (14), Karacan (14), Long (17), Hector (17), McCarthy (17), Antonio (18).

I'll be sad to see him leave on a permanent deal but if it was to Udinese and he carved out a career there, very happy for him.

[Brain Traysers]

Not to dig the boot in, but I just never really 'got' him as a player. I don't really know what he does, in terms of what would be his strong characteristics

He's an ok all round midfielder - can tackle a bit, on his day a reasonable work rate. Obviously a good shot on occasions, but not more than once or twice a season.

But I can't really remember him creating any assists, or many defence splitting passes. He isn't quick, not only is he obviously short, but he is also pretty weak. Couple of suggestions of questionable attitude

Just not for me really - but good luck to him elsewhere

I think this is the crux of the problem - we (fans of English football) don't really have an appreciation for this sort of player. Jorginho is a recent example at Chelsea - he is doing fine but fans are miffed by his lack of goals/assists, and he doesn't offer the defensive protection that you might expect from a player sitting that deep. Youtube highlights of his rare forays forward with Napoli don't help this attitude. That isn't, and will never be his skillset, same with Kelly.

It's more of a deep play-making role that advances the ball/splits the lines so attacking players have it in a dangerous area, ultimately a goal is unlikely to come from his pass (i.e. no Kelly assist), but it was the 'killer' pass than led to the opportunity. This old blog post by EFLanalytics had him as the 10th best progressive passer in the league - pretty good for a team ranking very low for total chances created. As he is playing more risky passes (with a higher potential pay off) people are right to observe he loses possession more than a safe passer.

The current lazy media wording for this type of player is 'box to box', or 'number 6' but the former is simply not true, and the latter doesn't mean anything on its own. Sidwell was a box to box midfielder. The Italians understand it (hardly a surprise when you consider the sheer class of CMs in their national team over the years), and would call him a 'regista', literally translated as 'director' for the deep lying play-making role.

I think it will take a high profile Premier League success story before most fans really 'get' it, in the same way that 'the Makelele role' is still talked about.

[Hound]

I get it fella. I get it that he isn’t that good

[Brain Traysers]

I get it fella. I get it that he isn’t that good

Potentially. But I fear likely in the same way Antonio, Vydra, Norwood and Grabban all 'weren't that good' with us

[Hound]

My issue with your analysis of that role is along with no assists etc, we generally play at a slow tempo with him in the side. The balls into the forwards or the number 10 have never been of good quality, hence the lack of chances. If he had that ability you’d think he’d be first name on Gomes teamsheet as that’s exactly what he has suggested he wants us to play like

I’d continue to say after watching him a lot over the last couple of years is he just doesn’t do anything well enough to be a top midfielder

Hoping he proves me wrong however and do think a slower paced Italian game (if that is more than just a cliche) will suit him better

[Snowflake Royal]

Not to dig the boot in, but I just never really 'got' him as a player. I don't really know what he does, in terms of what would be his strong characteristics

He's an ok all round midfielder - can tackle a bit, on his day a reasonable work rate. Obviously a good shot on occasions, but not more than once or twice a season.

But I can't really remember him creating any assists, or many defence splitting passes. He isn't quick, not only is he obviously short, but he is also pretty weak. Couple of suggestions of questionable attitude

Just not for me really - but good luck to him elsewhere

I think this is the crux of the problem - we (fans of English football) don't really have an appreciation for this sort of player. Jorginho is a recent example at Chelsea - he is doing fine but fans are miffed by his lack of goals/assists, and he doesn't offer the defensive protection that you might expect from a player sitting that deep. Youtube highlights of his rare forays forward with Napoli don't help this attitude. That isn't, and will never be his skillset, same with Kelly.

It's more of a deep play-making role that advances the ball/splits the lines so attacking players have it in a dangerous area, ultimately a goal is unlikely to come from his pass (i.e. no Kelly assist), but it was the 'killer' pass than led to the opportunity. This old blog post by EFLanalytics had him as the 10th best progressive passer in the league - pretty good for a team ranking very low for total chances created. As he is playing more risky passes (with a higher potential pay off) people are right to observe he loses possession more than a safe passer.

The current lazy media wording for this type of player is 'box to box', or 'number 6' but the former is simply not true, and the latter doesn't mean anything on its own. Sidwell was a box to box midfielder. The Italians understand it (hardly a surprise when you consider the sheer class of CMs in their national team over the years), and would call him a 'regista', literally translated as 'director' for the deep lying play-making role.

I think it will take a high profile Premier League success story before most fans really 'get' it, in the same way that 'the Makelele role' is still talked about.

That's the way I see it.

[Hound]

But he doesn’t do that...

Anyways...