by Nameless » 15 Sep 2017 10:04
by maffff » 15 Sep 2017 10:21
Nameless Not sure of your point Maff
Nameless You seem to think the ex manager of Jong Ajax doesn't believe in young players. Despite there being no evidence to support this.
Nameless Are the current 18-19 year olds further from the first team than the 20-21 year olds who weren't up to it ? Strangely most of them are right now
Nameless I can't see anyone doing a Kelly this year (Watson if he ever gets fit and Gunter ever gets injured would be a good shout).
by Nameless » 15 Sep 2017 13:23
by maffff » 15 Sep 2017 13:30
by SCIAG » 15 Sep 2017 13:57
Stranded Have seen the quote 'Smith is scoring for fun in the u23s', do people actually pay attention. He has scored 2 this year in one game. Last season, he scored 2 in 10 games. Weird definition of fun. He could be good but is only near the 1st team at the mo due to lack of numbers up top.
Nameless Not sure how to explain the failure of the Kuhl cohort,
by Forbury Lion » 15 Sep 2017 14:05
by Nameless » 15 Sep 2017 15:28
by LWJ » 15 Sep 2017 15:37
Muskrat It's all irrelevant anyway, Stam isn't interested in our Academy or the players it produces, he showed that in the summer when he released or sold almost all of our most promising youngsters (obvious exception being Kelly but even Stam couldn't ignore his burgeoning talent). He wants to tap into our new owners deep pockets and buy our way out of the league before moving on to pastures new I'm afraid. I'm also afraid that both of those plans are going to fail
by paultheroyal » 15 Sep 2017 16:11
Nameless Neither Smith nor Rimonhota are ready, although I think Rimonhota is closer than Smith.
I'd not have too much of a concern if Andresson had to play, and he certainly looks to have a very decent future.
Don't think there is a ready made answer to the 'when are they ready' question. Sometimes injuries force a decision and a players surprises you but just because one or two very special players were first teasers / internationals at a young age that doesn't mean you can throw others in early.
Interesting that Smith seems to be flavour of the week with some (based on very little real evidence) when it would seem Loader is far the better prospect. Smith would probably not make the U23 side if we were selecting from a full squad.
Out of interest if these 3 players were on the bench which 3 players would not be included ? Presumably Andresson would replace Obita or Ilori (nope !). Rimonhota ahead of Edwards or Evans (nope). Smith ahead of Clement (nope).
by Sutekh » 15 Sep 2017 16:38
maffffNamelessHound Tbf, nearly all of them have found league clubs. Wouldn't class that as a failure really
Failure is of course relative.
They have all,failed to make the grade with us.
They've all failed to make the grade in the Championship (even Cooper isn't starting many games at one of the weakest clubs in the division).
They've not failed in terms of having jobs as professional footballers but 3 or 4 years ago it looked like we might have a set of players all good enough to make our first team.
They have failed to do that....
Many of those that we've let go could well end up in the Championship in due course - we've managed to get them careers, they may not have made the grade here but the academy will have self-financed for another year. Also, this new batch doesn't seem further away than the academy lads we just let go. That's encouraging right?
by Nameless » 15 Sep 2017 16:45
SutekhmaffffNameless
Failure is of course relative.
They have all,failed to make the grade with us.
They've all failed to make the grade in the Championship (even Cooper isn't starting many games at one of the weakest clubs in the division).
They've not failed in terms of having jobs as professional footballers but 3 or 4 years ago it looked like we might have a set of players all good enough to make our first team.
They have failed to do that....
Many of those that we've let go could well end up in the Championship in due course - we've managed to get them careers, they may not have made the grade here but the academy will have self-financed for another year. Also, this new batch doesn't seem further away than the academy lads we just let go. That's encouraging right?
Most chose to not make the grade with Reading. Rather take their chances at a lower level and more likely get a shot at first team football. Early stages of course but dont think any are "pulling up trees" as yet but very good luck to them all in trying.
As to those left, they are very bright prospects and if Jaap thought they were good enough they'd be in the side and I would suggest that if any management team would know if a kid was good enough then it'd be Jaap and co.
Kelly is in the side, Watson, Richards and Rinomhota are probably next in line, then it's Smith and Loader. And if that lot are all regulars in the next 3/4 years then I would suggest that is a pretty good return and proving that Academy works.
by Sutekh » 15 Sep 2017 16:49
NamelessSutekhmaffff
Many of those that we've let go could well end up in the Championship in due course - we've managed to get them careers, they may not have made the grade here but the academy will have self-financed for another year. Also, this new batch doesn't seem further away than the academy lads we just let go. That's encouraging right?
Most chose to not make the grade with Reading. Rather take their chances at a lower level and more likely get a shot at first team football. Early stages of course but dont think any are "pulling up trees" as yet but very good luck to them all in trying.
As to those left, they are very bright prospects and if Jaap thought they were good enough they'd be in the side and I would suggest that if any management team would know if a kid was good enough then it'd be Jaap and co.
Kelly is in the side, Watson, Richards and Rinomhota are probably next in line, then it's Smith and Loader. And if that lot are all regulars in the next 3/4 years then I would suggest that is a pretty good return and proving that Academy works.
I think Andresson is very close to being a serious option for the first team squad (which I don't think Rimonhota is yet) and of course Novacovic is well ahead of Smith and Loader.
Barrett is an interesting one, and I have a concern that he is not fulfilling his potential. Partly because I don't think we know where to play him and partly because I suspect he may not be the sort of player Stam likes /wants.
If we are looking 3-4 years ahead then McIntyre would be a shoe in to be a starter if the hopes at the the club are fulfilled. He needs a season without injury but if he gets that he may do a Kelly before long,
by maffff » 15 Sep 2017 17:10
Sutekh if they don't do well that they'll be moving on next summer.
by Hound » 15 Sep 2017 17:29
by Esteban » 15 Sep 2017 20:27
by Hound » 15 Sep 2017 20:39
by muirinho » 15 Sep 2017 23:49
Nameless we're going to have to disagree Hound.
The players have all, bar Kelly, fallen short. They were given the opportunity to be Championship players and they didn't achieve it.
None of them who went out on loan showed anything close to the levels of performance expected.
It's disappointing and hopefully one or two may climb their way back up the ladder, but from a team that was able to compete and win against the very best sides in the country to produce just one Championship regular has to raise questions. Perhaps it was a classic case of the team exceeding the ability of the individuals, but that team should not just have produced 10 journeymen and one first teamer....
by 3points » 16 Sep 2017 14:44
by Snowflake Royal » 16 Sep 2017 15:23
Forbury Lion Could the lack of academy players breaking though into the first team be a sign that our academy isn't producing the right quality of players? - Is this a knock on from Eamon Dolan's replacement not being as good or something? Maybe this is why Martin Kuhl has been replaced?
by mambo3 » 18 Sep 2017 10:51
Snowflake RoyalForbury Lion Could the lack of academy players breaking though into the first team be a sign that our academy isn't producing the right quality of players? - Is this a knock on from Eamon Dolan's replacement not being as good or something? Maybe this is why Martin Kuhl has been replaced?
What lack of academy players breaking into the first team FFS.
McCarthy
Robson-Kanu
Church
Sigurdsson
Hector
Obita
Taylor
Cooper
Tshibola
Kelly
All made plenty of appearances even if they didn't all cement a longer term position, or moved on. Plus Tanner, Watson, Stacy, Fosu, Barrett, Smith, Andressen, Richardson, Dickie(?), Samuel etc making debuts.
Anyone who expects more than one player a year to break into the first team to the point of getting double figure starts has stupidly high expectations.
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