Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

TiagoIlori
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Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by TiagoIlori » 04 Jan 2018 14:33

Every time he goes direct the next game it’s the same old same old, so I am just starting to think he’s been told to make his team to do that style of play. I seem to remember Tevreden stressing that he wanted a possession based style in summer 2016, so perhaps the board are causing much more trouble than Stam is himself?

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Old Man Andrews » 04 Jan 2018 14:34

Is this a joke?

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Dickie's Spear » 04 Jan 2018 14:46

If that is the case they ( the board ) have a death wish at the turnstiles !

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by TiagoIlori » 04 Jan 2018 14:53

Old Man Andrews wrote:Is this a joke?

Believe it or not it’s genuinely a thing in football. I refuse to believe anyone would be so stubborn

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Old Man Andrews » 04 Jan 2018 14:58

TiagoIlori wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:Is this a joke?

Believe it or not it’s genuinely a thing in football. I refuse to believe anyone would be so stubborn


I would say it is more because they are Dutch and play an outdated style of football. If you look at the Dutch national side and their clubs performances or lack of in the Champions League you can see how far thay have fallen behind.


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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by genome » 04 Jan 2018 15:02

There's been a lot of over-analysis on here lately... there are a number of reasons (both big and small) as to why we're doing badly, and they all factor in, so to try and pinpoint one thing is just going to drive you crazy.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by TiagoIlori » 04 Jan 2018 15:08

Old Man Andrews wrote:
TiagoIlori wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:Is this a joke?

Believe it or not it’s genuinely a thing in football. I refuse to believe anyone would be so stubborn


I would say it is more because they are Dutch and play an outdated style of football. If you look at the Dutch national side and their clubs performances or lack of in the Champions League you can see how far thay have fallen behind.

True, but it brings the question of why Stam hasn’t changed his style, something must be stopping him

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Old Man Andrews » 04 Jan 2018 15:09

TiagoIlori wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:
TiagoIlori wrote:Believe it or not it’s genuinely a thing in football. I refuse to believe anyone would be so stubborn


I would say it is more because they are Dutch and play an outdated style of football. If you look at the Dutch national side and their clubs performances or lack of in the Champions League you can see how far thay have fallen behind.

True, but it brings the question of why Stam hasn’t changed his style, something must be stopping him


Because he is a stubborn p**ck?

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by TiagoIlori » 04 Jan 2018 15:12

genome wrote:There's been a lot of over-analysis on here lately... there are a number of reasons (both big and small) as to why we're doing badly, and they all factor in, so to try and pinpoint one thing is just going to drive you crazy.

Trust me I’ve thought about it nearly half a day since the brummies in total and I’m never going to try pin it down to a sole reason, i do reckon that there’s something serious that’s happened recently, just a case of what it is


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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Longhorn1970 » 04 Jan 2018 16:02

TiagoIlori wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:
TiagoIlori wrote:Believe it or not it’s genuinely a thing in football. I refuse to believe anyone would be so stubborn


I would say it is more because they are Dutch and play an outdated style of football. If you look at the Dutch national side and their clubs performances or lack of in the Champions League you can see how far thay have fallen behind.

True, but it brings the question of why Stam hasn’t changed his style, something must be stopping him


Because it worked for Ajax U21's in a very weak league ??

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Forbury Lion » 04 Jan 2018 16:36

Has Jaap forgotten the success he had as a player at Manchester United playing in an attacking 442 formation? Sure, we're no Man Utd but we're not exactly up against Arsenal, Chelsea etc in this league either....... At least switch to something like this when plan A isn't working

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by tmesis » 04 Jan 2018 18:22

Old Man Andrews wrote:I would say it is more because they are Dutch and play an outdated style of football. If you look at the Dutch national side and their clubs performances or lack of in the Champions League you can see how far thay have fallen behind.

Christ, not this crap again. Just because some thick ex-pro on Sky said it, doesn't make it true.

Dutch clubs fair badly in Europe because they don't have a massive tv deal, and their best players play abroad. It's got nothing to do with tactics.

The Netherlands has a population of just 17 million, a third of that of England, and consequently fortunes fluctuate a fair bit, especially when they don't possess any particularly gifted individuals to lift them above where a nation of their size probably ought to be.

The Dutch do not play "total football". They haven't for decades. The possession game and formations used in Holland, are pretty much exactly the same as the possession game and formations used across Continental Europe.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by 2 world wars, 1 world cup » 04 Jan 2018 23:35

TiagoIlori wrote:Every time he goes direct the next game it’s the same old same old, so I am just starting to think he’s been told to make his team to do that style of play. I seem to remember Tevreden stressing that he wanted a possession based style in summer 2016, so perhaps the board are causing much more trouble than Stam is himself?



Almost a funny suggestion at first glance.

Having said that where this *may* be slightly plausible is if say they chose Stam based on his philosophy, Stam argued his philosophy to get funding for certain players and now he has those players and is failing either Stam is too stubborn to make a change (most likely) OR too embarrassed having harped on about it OR the bosses are saying "look Stam we spent millions on this system so make it work".


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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Old Man Andrews » 05 Jan 2018 10:40

tmesis wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:I would say it is more because they are Dutch and play an outdated style of football. If you look at the Dutch national side and their clubs performances or lack of in the Champions League you can see how far thay have fallen behind.

Christ, not this crap again. Just because some thick ex-pro on Sky said it, doesn't make it true.

Dutch clubs fair badly in Europe because they don't have a massive tv deal, and their best players play abroad. It's got nothing to do with tactics.

The Netherlands has a population of just 17 million, a third of that of England, and consequently fortunes fluctuate a fair bit, especially when they don't possess any particularly gifted individuals to lift them above where a nation of their size probably ought to be.

The Dutch do not play "total football". They haven't for decades. The possession game and formations used in Holland, are pretty much exactly the same as the possession game and formations used across Continental Europe.


It has everything to do with tactics. I watch a hell of a lot of football and have seen it first hand from the Dutch sides. Their big 3 clubs all play exactly the same way as do their national side. Their failure as a nation stems from their inablilty/stubborness to adapt not because of TV deals. Kids are coached the "Dutch way" as soon as they can kick a ball and it is a way of playing that no longer works.

Keep up.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Royalwaster » 05 Jan 2018 11:03

TiagoIlori wrote:Every time he goes direct the next game it’s the same old same old, so I am just starting to think he’s been told to make his team to do that style of play. I seem to remember Tevreden stressing that he wanted a possession based style in summer 2016, so perhaps the board are causing much more trouble than Stam is himself?


That's right up there with the claim that the club is getting our players injured in training on purpose.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Royalwaster » 05 Jan 2018 11:04

2 world wars, 1 world cup wrote:
TiagoIlori wrote:Every time he goes direct the next game it’s the same old same old, so I am just starting to think he’s been told to make his team to do that style of play. I seem to remember Tevreden stressing that he wanted a possession based style in summer 2016, so perhaps the board are causing much more trouble than Stam is himself?



Almost a funny suggestion at first glance.

Having said that where this *may* be slightly plausible is if say they chose Stam based on his philosophy, Stam argued his philosophy to get funding for certain players and now he has those players and is failing either Stam is too stubborn to make a change (most likely) OR too embarrassed having harped on about it OR the bosses are saying "look Stam we spent millions on this system so make it work".


But he signed fast players and plays a slow system. Totally doesn't make sense.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by cp » 05 Jan 2018 12:09

I was trying to understand why we don't change when it's clear by the evidence; results, league position and attendance, that it's not working. Given Stam is no idiot and actually comes across as quite intelligent.

I can only think that perhaps some of the attributes that made him a great footballer, in particular a great defender, i.e. perseverance, tenacity, stubbornness, not willing to give up etc. are now acting against him and revealing a weakness in being inflexible.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Hound » 05 Jan 2018 12:19

thing is, I think he has changed his tactics, which to me is slightly worrying as the results have been the same.

We are definitely not keeping possession to the extent we were earlier this season. We try to hit the frontmen, esp Barrow, and on the rare occasions he can be arsed, Aluko, quickly. We play a lot of long balls to Yann.

Against Brum, we barely did the passing along the back line thing. I don't think any Brum fan at the game would have come away thinking we try to play keep ball.

I think the players are actually a bit confused as to what we are trying to do at the moment. I think thats a big part of the issue. Last year, we played exactly the same way no matter what. It was weird at times, but the players knew exactly what was expected of them.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Nomad_Royal » 05 Jan 2018 14:47

Apparently there was a comment on the radio during the Birmingham match ( i didn't hear it I was at the match) concerning the style of play being so slow that our fitness may be suffering. We aren't playing fast committed football for 90 minutes each week ( that part is certainly true) and as a consequence the players aren't really match fit. Certainly the way half the team collapsed to their knees when Burton scored their 2nd didnt speak to me of a team fit and ready to fight back.

No idea whether this is the case or not but suspect it is yet another possibility to add into the growing list of reasons we are crap. Oh and certainly no more unlikely than we are loosing because Stam is contracted to play this way.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Lower West » 05 Jan 2018 18:14

TiagoIlori wrote:True, but it brings the question of why Stam hasn’t changed his style, something must be stopping him


To paraphrase. This is a long term project. One assumes the aim is to produce home grown talent that is inbred into the Reading style. Manure under Ferguson were founded out of a successfull youth team. Combined with some bought in defensive steel and attacking flair. Ferguson was on the verge of being sacked in 1990 as the team flirted with relegation after an eight game winless run. Sometimes patience is a virtue. Ferguson didn't crumble. Seems as if Stam is a similar mould. Have to admire his tenacity.

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