England - the future....

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Hendo
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Re: England - the future....

by Hendo » 16 May 2018 15:58

Old Man Andrews wrote:Really can't see how you can leave Lallana out.


:arrow:

Old Man Andrews wrote:Even though he is returning from injury


Has played a total of 16 minutes since March.

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Re: England - the future....

by BR0B0T » 16 May 2018 16:22

Despite not winning any of the following.....1980, 1982, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1992, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016....and having no great confidence in the squad I think we've got this one!!

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 16 May 2018 16:38

What is going on? Phil Jones is not gurning in that photo. :shock:

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 16 May 2018 16:38

Hendo wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:Really can't see how you can leave Lallana out.


:arrow:

Old Man Andrews wrote:Even though he is returning from injury


Has played a total of 16 minutes since March.


Plus a reserve team game where he tried to strangle a kid to death.

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Re: England - the future....

by Hendo » 16 May 2018 16:39

Sanguine wrote:
Hendo wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:Really can't see how you can leave Lallana out.


:arrow:

Old Man Andrews wrote:Even though he is returning from injury


Has played a total of 16 minutes since March.


Plus a reserve team game where he tried to strangle a kid to death.


Ah yeah, who could forget!

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 16 May 2018 17:09

Sanguine wrote:As above, pretty happy with the squad. Are we not heavy on defenders though?
You've got Maguire, Stones, Jones and Cahill as centre-backs, and Walker who can play there. Then you have Walker, Trippier and Alexander-Arnold who can play right-back, and Rose, Young and Delph. Surely we could have lost a wing-back (Delph) for another midfielder?


He's playing 3 centre backs though, so that's 5 centre backs for 3 places (Walker starting the tournament at centre half IMO), and two wing backs for either side (Alexander-Arnold and Trippier on the right, Rose and Young on the left). It's fine having players able to cover multiple positions but at the same time, if there are a couple of injuries, they can only play in one position at a time so you need proper cover.

I'd love to have seen Wilshire, Lallana, Barkley or Oxlade-Chamberlain (even Winks) in place of Delph, but Southgate's hands are tied on that front and Delph offers the mobility and all round game to play in a midfield 3 along side Henderson in the way Milner and Wijnaldum do for Liverpool.

A decent squad, but still lacking a bit of flair and x-factor, and it's untested and unproven at the back which is a bit of a concern.

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 16 May 2018 17:17

Interesting, although probably irrelevant, the FA squad does list Delph as a defender.

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Re: England - the future....

by bcubed » 16 May 2018 20:08

bcubed wrote:


Just to clarify this is the official FA announcement of the squad


Just me that thinks this is bizarre?

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Re: England - the future....

by Royal Rother » 16 May 2018 20:17

Absolutely laughable.

6 full backs and no creative midfielder.

Please tell me it’s a joke.

Wilshere may not quite be the player I want him to be but he has proved his fitness, and has had a decent enough season.

And then there’s Shelvey who has been in blinding form.

It could be said that both Wilshere and Shelvey have “issues” of one sort or another but they have flair and can open up defences - none of that squad have that ability. (Maybe Loftus-Cheek but I’ve still not seen enough of him.)


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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 16 May 2018 20:40

Royal Rother wrote:Absolutely laughable.

6 full backs and no creative midfielder.

Please tell me it’s a joke.

Wilshere may not quite be the player I want him to be but he has proved his fitness, and has had a decent enough season.

And then there’s Shelvey who has been in blinding form.

It could be said that both Wilshere and Shelvey have “issues” of one sort or another but they have flair and can open up defences - none of that squad have that ability. (Maybe Loftus-Cheek but I’ve still not seen enough of him.)


It’s not 6 fullbacks though is it? It might be 6 players who could or have played at fullback at one time or another, but that’s a ridiculous line to take.

As for Wilshire, as much as I’d love for him to be in the side, Southgate has chosen a way he wants us to play and Wilshire (as reported in The Times this week) wasn’t up to it because of his fitness levels and that’s why he went back to Arsenal before the Netherlands friendly. Not an injury, just not fit enough to press and attacking in the way Southgate wants his midfield to.

For years people, probably you included RR, have been demanding England managers pick a team as opposed to a collection of names and reputations. It seems Southgate has done that here, for tactical reasons, and I think he should be applauded for that.

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Re: England - the future....

by Royal Rother » 16 May 2018 21:27

I do not believe that either Young or Delph would have been selected for their potential contribution to the midfield alone.

So I have to think they are in the squad because they have played regularly at full back.

Selecting players because of their dual purpose abilities is folly. You need out and out talent selected to play in their specialist positions.

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 16 May 2018 21:40

Royal Rother wrote:I do not believe that either Young or Delph would have been selected for their potential contribution to the midfield alone.


Young is presumably there as one of the two left wing backs, and probably rightly so on this seasons form.

Delph is there as a midfielder, and selected over Livermore as one of those energetic midfielders who can play as one of a three (ala Liverpool and where he played quite well for England under Hodgson) or as a tenacious holding player as he has done for City. There aren’t too many alternatives for position who are fit and available.

Looking at the numbers, Walker is there to play centre half and so Southgate has taken two other right wing backs because, as you say, you need depth in each position not just multipurpose players.

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Re: England - the future....

by Royal Rother » 16 May 2018 21:49

Walker is there to play centre half?

You keep more current than I do I suspect but that would really surprise me.


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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 16 May 2018 21:58

Royal Rother wrote:Walker is there to play centre half?

You keep more current than I do I suspect but that would really surprise me.


He played the last two games there and excelled. It shouldn’t be too much of a surprise to someone willing to lambast the manager for his selections really...

Having Walker there with his pace adds an extra ability to recover (handy when Stones starts dicking about) as well as someone comfortable on the ball. It also means he can squeeze in another attacking threat as Walker can can still bomb forward and add width which I’m guessing Southgate wants against those sides who’ll sit in against us.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 17 May 2018 09:49

Hoop Blah wrote:and it's untested and unproven at the back which is a bit of a concern.


Made this point earlier, but it's a defence that has conceded just once from open play in eight games, including clean sheets against Germany and Brazil, and just that penalty against Italy.

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Re: England - the future....

by genome » 17 May 2018 10:14

Saw this phenomenal stat on Twitter:

Ashley Young is the first player called Young to be the oldest player in a World Cup squad since Choi Young-Il in 1998

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Re: England - the future....

by Royal Rother » 17 May 2018 10:35

Hoop Blah wrote:
Royal Rother wrote:Walker is there to play centre half?

You keep more current than I do I suspect but that would really surprise me.


He played the last two games there and excelled. It shouldn’t be too much of a surprise to someone willing to lambast the manager for his selections really...
.


Quite the opposite I’d have thought.

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Hendo
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Re: England - the future....

by Hendo » 17 May 2018 12:24

genome wrote:Saw this phenomenal stat on Twitter:

Ashley Young is the first player called Young to be the oldest player in a World Cup squad since Choi Young-Il in 1998


I'm surprised he has never played in a World Cup tbf.

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 17 May 2018 12:40

Royal Rother wrote:
Hoop Blah wrote:
Royal Rother wrote:Walker is there to play centre half?

You keep more current than I do I suspect but that would really surprise me.


He played the last two games there and excelled. It shouldn’t be too much of a surprise to someone willing to lambast the manager for his selections really...
.


Quite the opposite I’d have thought.


Well not really, IMO.

I'd expect someone (discounting the brain dead trolls etc) to make such a comment with at least a little bit of knowledge of the subject. Basically, anyone with enough interest to be driven to comment on it being laughable etc surely would've at least read a match report, teamsheet or the subsequent debate from those two games. Walkers switch to centre half was probably the main talking point of those friendlies.

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 17 May 2018 12:53

Sanguine wrote:
Hoop Blah wrote:and it's untested and unproven at the back which is a bit of a concern.


Made this point earlier, but it's a defence that has conceded just once from open play in eight games, including clean sheets against Germany and Brazil, and just that penalty against Italy.


I did see that. I'd argue it's only 4 friendlies since Southgate switched to the 3 at the back, based on Stones and Maguire, and even though they were against good opposition in Brazil, Germany, Italy and, less so, Netherlands it's not quite the same as competitive football.

In those 4 games he started Stones, Maguire, Gomez, Jones, Tarkowski, and Walker as the centre halfs and two of those aren't in the squad so I wouldn't say that their settled into a unit yet, let alone test or proven.

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