Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

Hiram K Hackenbacker
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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Hiram K Hackenbacker » 12 Aug 2018 08:57

Hound wrote:A +1 with Ian

He’ll be back Tuesday and then available for selection going forward, at which point he’ll be treated like every other player in the squad

I agree

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Pandoras Box » 12 Aug 2018 10:03

Agree. But also knowing our record of the amount of injuries (and usually long term) sustainedly while training, why would you have him training with a multi million pound deal coming up?

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by bobby1413 » 12 Aug 2018 13:56

Snowflake Royal wrote:
bobby1413 wrote:
Ascotexgunner wrote:I couldn't believe Clements comments that Moore hadn't been "fully" training and that's why he didn't start as he wasn't fit.
What kind of answer is that? If Brighton were gonna pay through the nose for him are we saying he wasn't fit to start the season for them? He should have been ready to start for any club. The club should have made him train so he was fully ready, he's being paid by the club to play for us, and until that contract changes otherwise he should have played.


I agree, it's a stupid excuse. How is he not fit ffs? As you've said he should have been fit (other than injury maybe) if he was being sold. How can you have a summer off and come back unfit?

Surely it's quite common to isolate a player who has put in a transfer request from the first team squad's training sessions as they aren't going to be properly focused, and you're not going to he using them. Why would we put effort into getting a player up to match fitness for another team, when we can just take a couple of weeks to do it if he stays.

The outrage and obsession at the Moore situation really is daft. Why are we even talking about it still ffs.


Agree about the outrage and obsession, as far as I'm concerned the whole thing is done and dusted and it's business as usual.

I do agree about isolating him after a transfer request, but I would have thought he would still have been training, still have access to facilities like the physio staff, it's not like he's been isolated for 4 months, it was a week or two.

I wonder if it's more a case that he was left out as he missed out on the tactical meetings, and the preparations for the game, rather than him not being fit.

E.g. this week he will be back in the meetings, will be there for discussions about formations etc... so he will be up-to-speed

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Aug 2018 14:09

I'd suspect he did do some light training, but isn't match sharp and integrated for tactics in time for Forest, plus it sends the message that he doesn't just waltz straight back in.

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by leon » 12 Aug 2018 20:05

Personally I’d have trained the fcuker into the ground and made him clean the toilets with his toothbrush.


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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Victor Meldrew » 12 Aug 2018 20:46

Snowflake Royal wrote:I'd suspect he did do some light training, but isn't match sharp and integrated for tactics in time for Forest, plus it sends the message that he doesn't just waltz straight back in.


Blimey Ian when did football stop being the simple game that it is?
"Integrated for tactics"?
He is a centre-back who played under this manager for the last 10 (?) games last season and his job is to stop the opposition strikers from scoring.
Not sure that there is much in terms of tactical discussions that he would have missed out on and I fully expect him to be back in the side sooner rather than later to bring his athleticism and determination to central defence.

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Aug 2018 21:51

Victor Meldrew wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:I'd suspect he did do some light training, but isn't match sharp and integrated for tactics in time for Forest, plus it sends the message that he doesn't just waltz straight back in.


Blimey Ian when did football stop being the simple game that it is?
"Integrated for tactics"?
He is a centre-back who played under this manager for the last 10 (?) games last season and his job is to stop the opposition strikers from scoring.
Not sure that there is much in terms of tactical discussions that he would have missed out on and I fully expect him to be back in the side sooner rather than later to bring his athleticism and determination to central defence.


You'd think watching football for half a century or more might give you a hint that defence is a bit more complex and involved than a bunch of individuals trying to make tackles and blocks. Or do you think training just involves some exercise, and a fun XI a side kick-about?

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Victor Meldrew » 13 Aug 2018 11:33

Snowflake Royal wrote:
Victor Meldrew wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:I'd suspect he did do some light training, but isn't match sharp and integrated for tactics in time for Forest, plus it sends the message that he doesn't just waltz straight back in.


Blimey Ian when did football stop being the simple game that it is?
"Integrated for tactics"?
He is a centre-back who played under this manager for the last 10 (?) games last season and his job is to stop the opposition strikers from scoring.
Not sure that there is much in terms of tactical discussions that he would have missed out on and I fully expect him to be back in the side sooner rather than later to bring his athleticism and determination to central defence.


You'd think watching football for half a century or more might give you a hint that defence is a bit more complex and involved than a bunch of individuals trying to make tackles and blocks. Or do you think training just involves some exercise, and a fun XI a side kick-about?


It was either the late great Clough or Paisley who said that the job of the centre half (back) is to win the ball and pass to one of their own side.
This was not long after the era of Moore and Beckenbauer and during the time of Hansen (all great ball-players) who could have played in midfield but gave the ball to others to create attacking movements.
Football is still a simple game and the job of a centre-back remains simple and in Moore's case having played many games alongside Ilori and/ or McShane and in front of Mannone so his integration into tactics would IMHO not been an issue.
The club is paying his wages, get him earning them as soon as possible..

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Victor Meldrew » 13 Aug 2018 11:34

Victor Meldrew wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:
Victor Meldrew wrote:
Blimey Ian when did football stop being the simple game that it is?
"Integrated for tactics"?
He is a centre-back who played under this manager for the last 10 (?) games last season and his job is to stop the opposition strikers from scoring.
Not sure that there is much in terms of tactical discussions that he would have missed out on and I fully expect him to be back in the side sooner rather than later to bring his athleticism and determination to central defence.


You'd think watching football for half a century or more might give you a hint that defence is a bit more complex and involved than a bunch of individuals trying to make tackles and blocks. Or do you think training just involves some exercise, and a fun XI a side kick-about?


It was either the late great Clough or Paisley who said that the job of the centre half (back) is to win the ball and pass to one of their own side who can play.
This was not long after the era of Moore and Beckenbauer and during the time of Hansen (all great ball-players) who could have played in midfield but gave the ball to others to create attacking movements.
Football is still a simple game and the job of a centre-back remains simple and in Moore's case having played many games alongside Ilori and/ or McShane and in front of Mannone his integration into tactics would IMHO not been an issue.
The club is paying his wages, get him earning them as soon as possible..


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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Victor Meldrew » 13 Aug 2018 11:39

Victor Meldrew wrote:
Victor Meldrew wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:
You'd think watching football for half a century or more might give you a hint that defence is a bit more complex and involved than a bunch of individuals trying to make tackles and blocks. Or do you think training just involves some exercise, and a fun XI a side kick-about?


It was either the late great Clough or Paisley who said that the job of the centre half (back) is to win the ball and pass to one of their own side who can play.
This was not long after the era of Moore and Beckenbauer and during the time of Hansen (all great ball-players) who could have played in midfield but gave the ball to others to create attacking movements.
Football is still a simple game and the job of a centre-back remains simple and in Moore's case having played many games alongside Ilori and/ or McShane and in front of Mannone his integration into tactics would IMHO not been an issue.
The club is paying his wages, get him earning them as soon as possible..


My head is so full of tactics this Monday morning that I posted twice rather than edit-apologies to readers.
Posting is really a rather simple matter. :wink:
Passing however is not and that is why we have creative midfielders-or at least in Reading's case at the moment not that creative unfortunately.

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Snowflake Royal » 13 Aug 2018 12:37

Yes, I'm absolutely sure those managers paid no attention to organising a defensive line, shape, marking routines, set play strategies... they just told their defenders to run a few laps at training then knock off for the day.

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by sandman » 13 Aug 2018 12:59

Probably.

"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes”

Clough's idea of pre match preparation was taking his players to the red light district the night before European semi finals.

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Snowflake Royal » 13 Aug 2018 13:08

It's really not worth the effort with you two.


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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Victor Meldrew » 13 Aug 2018 13:08

sandman wrote:Probably.

"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes”

Clough's idea of pre match preparation was taking his players to the red light district the night before European semi finals.


He didn't have a bad career did he?

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Victor Meldrew » 13 Aug 2018 13:12

Snowflake Royal wrote:It's really not worth the effort with you two.


Good.
BTW Ian I don't think you even know when you are being objectionable.
Can't you ever post in a considered and occasionally friendly way?
You never know, you might actually enjoy it and find that people are much more inclined to have a civil debate with you.

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Coppells Lost Coat » 13 Aug 2018 13:26

Was interesting to see Grealish play again even after all the speculation over him, where as Moore was no where near the 1st team.
Dont believe his omission is down to not being tactical integrated or match sharp as he did a full pre season and would have been training with the 1st team for Forest. Clearly more to the story than people are letting on.

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by sandman » 13 Aug 2018 13:40

I actually happen to agree with you on why Moore didn't play, Ian.

Just found it funny you seemed to think Clough, a man who once sent his keeper to go and train on a roundabout, was the sort of bloke that would spend all week doing meticulous tactical work. Most of that would have been left to Taylor.

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Denver Royal » 13 Aug 2018 15:23

Coppells Lost Coat wrote:Was interesting to see Grealish play again even after all the speculation over him, where as Moore was no where near the 1st team.

Yep, and according to our ownership, Moore was never going to be sold at any price anyway.

Bruce, however, said they were waiting for the right offer for Grealish (which they didn't get, but Bruce played him both games anyway).

Our best player, and Player of the Year. Could have made a difference in those two defeats? 'Our season depends on a fast start'?
Last edited by Denver Royal on 13 Aug 2018 15:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Old Man Andrews » 13 Aug 2018 15:25

Denver Royal wrote:
Coppells Lost Coat wrote:Was interesting to see Grealish play again even after all the speculation over him, where as Moore was no where near the 1st team.


Our best player, and Player of the Year. Could have made a difference in those two defeats. 'Our season depends on a fast start'.


Interested to know how? Not sure we have missed him at all really, defending hasn't been the issue thus far.

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Re: Liam Moore Hypocrite or Hero?

by Hound » 13 Aug 2018 16:09

still managed to concede 3 goals to average teams. Obvious statement but we'd have 4 points if we hadn't conceded a goal this season

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