Clement

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Clement in or out

Poll ended at 02 Oct 2018 15:29
Out
35
25%
In
68
49%
Out but in a funny accent
3
2%
Oxf*rd off Maff
17
12%
Ian Royal
16
12%
 
Total votes: 139
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Lower West
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Re: Clement

by Lower West » 10 Nov 2018 23:00

Snowflake Royal wrote:O'Shea was daft


For the players coming through. Such as Rinomhota. Worth every penny. We need role models in the squad. Players that have achieved in their careers. Not ones content to milk big wages for simply turning up. O'Shea won't hold back behind closed doors.

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Re: Clement

by Lower West » 10 Nov 2018 23:05

Sutekh wrote:Presumably Meite has earned Mr Clement a stay of execution today. But for how long? Will he see out the end of the month, will he make it to Christmas?



There's a lot of average teams in the Championship this season. Don't write us off yet. Meite could well be the difference.

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Re: Clement

by Hound » 10 Nov 2018 23:07

Can’t make my mind up with PC. Like him and generally I can see what he is trying to do with his selection, subs etc

Tactically I think he is half decent. He generally picks about the right team. He seems to identify our weaknesses pretty clearly and tries to correct them

So why the fcuk do we keep turning out rancid halves of football? It’s not even the whole game generally, just one half. WBA, Swansea, Norwich, QPR, today - all one decent half and one utterly appalling one. Can’t work it out, and seems neither can he

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Re: Clement

by Lower West » 10 Nov 2018 23:46

Hound wrote:So why the fcuk do we keep turning out rancid halves of football?


Ask the players? Perhaps there should be a regular fans forum.

Leeds lost 4-1 at WBA today. Results need to be kept in context. As Reading currently are a poor outfit.

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Re: Clement

by Lower West » 10 Nov 2018 23:50

Hound wrote:So why the fcuk do we keep turning out rancid halves of football?


Ask the players? Perhaps there should be a regular fans forum. Put them on the spot.

Are we the only team not to have a pre kick off huddle. Makes you wonder how unified they are. Imbalance in wages causing discontent?

Leeds lost 4-1 at WBA today. Results need to be kept in context. As Reading currently are a poor outfit.

Only 8 teams have scored more than us. So something is going right. There's plenty to build on.


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Re: Clement

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Nov 2018 01:16

Lower West wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:O'Shea was daft


For the players coming through. Such as Rinomhota. Worth every penny. We need role models in the squad. Players that have achieved in their careers. Not ones content to milk big wages for simply turning up. O'Shea won't hold back behind closed doors.

This the same guy who's on for being relegated three times in three seasons? Great example he is.

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Re: Clement

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Nov 2018 01:24

Hound wrote:Can’t make my mind up with PC. Like him and generally I can see what he is trying to do with his selection, subs etc

Tactically I think he is half decent. He generally picks about the right team. He seems to identify our weaknesses pretty clearly and tries to correct them

So why the fcuk do we keep turning out rancid halves of football? It’s not even the whole game generally, just one half. WBA, Swansea, Norwich, QPR, today - all one decent half and one utterly appalling one. Can’t work it out, and seems neither can he

Too many players who don't really give a shit and phone in performances. Moore is hardly living up to his ability, neither is Bacuna. The midfield saviour Meyler has turned out to be rancid. O'Shea and McShane are past it. Plus injuries to key players like Ezatolahi and Bodvarsson. The attitude and morale are poor, changing manager's didn't improve it before, so I don't see why it will now, whilst changing players will.

But for McShane's madness, we'd be 19th. Then there's the stupid last minute goal against Derby and 18th. It's fine margins that are the difference from being right up shit creek and hovering a little uncomfortably above it.

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Re: Clement

by leon » 11 Nov 2018 02:47

Snowflake Royal wrote:A week and a half ago people were saying we had to get 4 points from these two games. We have. Ispwich wasn't must win, but it was mustn't lose. It's desperately frustrating that this bunch of clowns can't string two performances together, but I want to see Clement get another transfer window.

I like what he's tried to do with his signings. Meyler was a total failure, O'Shea was daft and Yiadom is falling apart, but the idea, if not execution has been right. Plus I like him, which goes a long way. And I expect us to go down anyway, and I'd rather see how he can do in League One than go through yet another manager fail and try.


Jesus Christ, we’re an absolute fcuking shambles.

We play the shittest team in the league and we make them look good.

The signings have been a shambles as well.

We need a tackling midfielder so we get in a bloke who wants to retire.

And we need a central defender so we get a bloke who really should retire.

Clement talks like a fan and not a leader.

That first half performance was possibly the worst 45 minutes I’ve seen Reading play.

Out.

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Re: Clement

by NewCorkSeth » 11 Nov 2018 09:13

leon wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:A week and a half ago people were saying we had to get 4 points from these two games. We have. Ispwich wasn't must win, but it was mustn't lose. It's desperately frustrating that this bunch of clowns can't string two performances together, but I want to see Clement get another transfer window.

I like what he's tried to do with his signings. Meyler was a total failure, O'Shea was daft and Yiadom is falling apart, but the idea, if not execution has been right. Plus I like him, which goes a long way. And I expect us to go down anyway, and I'd rather see how he can do in League One than go through yet another manager fail and try.


Jesus Christ, we’re an absolute fcuking shambles.

We play the shittest team in the league and we make them look good.

The signings have been a shambles as well.

We need a tackling midfielder so we get in a bloke who wants to retire.

And we need a central defender so we get a bloke who really should retire.

Clement talks like a fan and not a leader.

That first half performance was possibly the worst 45 minutes I’ve seen Reading play.

Out.

Said it before but I'll say it again: Clement shouldn't get credit for his "honest" post match assessments. Recognising the problems week after week and being incapable of stopping them indicates, to me at least, a major problems with his abilities as a manager.

It does us no good him saying "we were so bad, I didn't recognise the players.." after each poor performance when he seems to have no idea how to get a good performance or even a consistently average performance out of this group.

I am puzzled by the faith shown in him. If someone could be arsed going through my posting history they'll see I'm normally overly supportive of managers and agree that chopping and changing does teams little good for the most part but what we have here is a manager with no discernable identity, no style or character that is represented on the pitch. He has no identity as a manager and that reflects on the pitch.


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Re: Clement

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Nov 2018 10:13

NewCorkSeth wrote:
leon wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:A week and a half ago people were saying we had to get 4 points from these two games. We have. Ispwich wasn't must win, but it was mustn't lose. It's desperately frustrating that this bunch of clowns can't string two performances together, but I want to see Clement get another transfer window.

I like what he's tried to do with his signings. Meyler was a total failure, O'Shea was daft and Yiadom is falling apart, but the idea, if not execution has been right. Plus I like him, which goes a long way. And I expect us to go down anyway, and I'd rather see how he can do in League One than go through yet another manager fail and try.


Jesus Christ, we’re an absolute fcuking shambles.

We play the shittest team in the league and we make them look good.

The signings have been a shambles as well.

We need a tackling midfielder so we get in a bloke who wants to retire.

And we need a central defender so we get a bloke who really should retire.

Clement talks like a fan and not a leader.

That first half performance was possibly the worst 45 minutes I’ve seen Reading play.

Out.

Said it before but I'll say it again: Clement shouldn't get credit for his "honest" post match assessments. Recognising the problems week after week and being incapable of stopping them indicates, to me at least, a major problems with his abilities as a manager.

It does us no good him saying "we were so bad, I didn't recognise the players.." after each poor performance when he seems to have no idea how to get a good performance or even a consistently average performance out of this group.

I am puzzled by the faith shown in him. If someone could be arsed going through my posting history they'll see I'm normally overly supportive of managers and agree that chopping and changing does teams little good for the most part but what we have here is a manager with no discernable identity, no style or character that is represented on the pitch. He has no identity as a manager and that reflects on the pitch.

You can't polish a turd.
Clement fixed the Meyler mistake with Ezatolahi who didn't even get injured on our watch.
We got a decent performance last week.

The issues aren't tactics or team selection. They're the players and he's picking the best he has for the most part.

Love how you and Leon have banged on about how Barrow must play and dropping him for discipline issues was wrong, then he comes back in and fart arses about rather than be the saviour you seem to think he is.

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Re: Clement

by NewCorkSeth » 11 Nov 2018 10:19

Snowflake Royal wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:
leon wrote:
Jesus Christ, we’re an absolute fcuking shambles.

We play the shittest team in the league and we make them look good.

The signings have been a shambles as well.

We need a tackling midfielder so we get in a bloke who wants to retire.

And we need a central defender so we get a bloke who really should retire.

Clement talks like a fan and not a leader.

That first half performance was possibly the worst 45 minutes I’ve seen Reading play.

Out.

Said it before but I'll say it again: Clement shouldn't get credit for his "honest" post match assessments. Recognising the problems week after week and being incapable of stopping them indicates, to me at least, a major problems with his abilities as a manager.

It does us no good him saying "we were so bad, I didn't recognise the players.." after each poor performance when he seems to have no idea how to get a good performance or even a consistently average performance out of this group.

I am puzzled by the faith shown in him. If someone could be arsed going through my posting history they'll see I'm normally overly supportive of managers and agree that chopping and changing does teams little good for the most part but what we have here is a manager with no discernable identity, no style or character that is represented on the pitch. He has no identity as a manager and that reflects on the pitch.

You can't polish a turd.
Clement fixed the Meyler mistake with Ezatolahi who didn't even get injured on our watch.
We got a decent performance last week.

The issues aren't tactics or team selection. They're the players and he's picking the best he has for the most part.

Love how you and Leon have banged on about how Barrow must play and dropping him for discipline issues was wrong, then he comes back in and fart arses about rather than be the saviour you seem to think he is.

Chill. I never said or even acted like he was a "saviour". He's simply our beat player, by some distance, for that LW slot. If you look back I was actually arguing that he should be on the bench as Baldock had done enough of a job to keep his starting place.

I wouldn't call and assist and being fouled outside the box fat arsing either.

And I respectfully disagree. It is the tactics that are the problem, it is the team selections (at times) that have been the problem and you can polish a turd in football. Ipswich looked great first half according to many on here. Are they not a polished turd? Or semi-polished at least...

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Re: Clement

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Nov 2018 10:27

Ipswich are not Reading. They have different problems. And one decent half of football against another shit side where they don't even win is hardly something to aim for. Ipswich were ok under McCarthy, getting a bit more from them is reverting to mean. We've been shit for ages and proved changinf managers doesn't help.

I'd rather have Baldock left and McCleary right. G looked twice the player Barrow was.

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Re: Clement

by NewCorkSeth » 11 Nov 2018 10:36

Snowflake Royal wrote:Ipswich are not Reading. They have different problems. And one decent half of football against another shit side where they don't even win is hardly something to aim for. Ipswich were ok under McCarthy, getting a bit more from them is reverting to mean. We've been shit for ages and proved changinf managers doesn't help.

I'd rather have Baldock left and McCleary right. G looked twice the player Barrow was.

You know that's not what I was saying. I clearly wasn't saying that 2 very different footballing sides are comparable in that way and I very clearly wasn't saying we should aspire to be Ipswich.. the expression "you cant polish a turd" doesn't work in football because there are numerous examples of shit teams turning it around. I don't believe we need huge transfer activity to turn this around and I especially don't believe we need to get relegated to turn thus around..

I take great exception to your "we have proved changing managers doesn't work" line. How have we proved that? The managers were sacked under different circumstances for the most part and we have had (limited admittedly) some success in recent times.

The fact that the only arguments for keeping Clement anyone seems to come up with are "it's the players that are shit" and "chopping and changing doesn't often help" is damning. Neither of those excuses so any respect to the manager. He's not getting the best out of a bad lot he's getting the worst out of a decent lot. We know this. We have seen these players perform much, much better. It's Clement that is the problem.


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Re: Clement

by Zip » 11 Nov 2018 10:48

NewCorkSeth wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:Ipswich are not Reading. They have different problems. And one decent half of football against another shit side where they don't even win is hardly something to aim for. Ipswich were ok under McCarthy, getting a bit more from them is reverting to mean. We've been shit for ages and proved changinf managers doesn't help.

I'd rather have Baldock left and McCleary right. G looked twice the player Barrow was.

You know that's not what I was saying. I clearly wasn't saying that 2 very different footballing sides are comparable in that way and I very clearly wasn't saying we should aspire to be Ipswich.. the expression "you cant polish a turd" doesn't work in football because there are numerous examples of shit teams turning it around. I don't believe we need huge transfer activity to turn this around and I especially don't believe we need to get relegated to turn thus around..

I take great exception to your "we have proved changing managers doesn't work" line. How have we proved that? The managers were sacked under different circumstances for the most part and we have had (limited admittedly) some success in recent times.

The fact that the only arguments for keeping Clement anyone seems to come up with are "it's the players that are shit" and "chopping and changing doesn't often help" is damning. Neither of those excuses so any respect to the manager. He's not getting the best out of a bad lot he's getting the worst out of a decent lot. We know this. We have seen these players perform much, much better. It's Clement that is the problem.


It’s both Clement and the players that are the problem. On the one hand Clement has improved things in that we are now scoring more goals. On the other he has worsened things because we now concede more. He did try and fix CDM by bringing in Meyler. He then quickly recognised Meyler was a mistake by bringing in Ezatolahi. To then lose him through injury was very frustrating.

However the O’Shea signing was a poor one. I think it’s adversely affecting Moore playing alongside him because he knows O’Shea will get done for pace time and again.
If we continue to average a point a game or slightly lower than we are in a relegation battle. Given the games we have coming up I cannot see that improving so a decision needs to be made soon whether to give Clement the January transfer window or bring in somebody else by then to have the opportunity to bring in new players.

I don’t think Clement can turn it around so think he should go although I get why others think he should be given January to further change the squad because of the mess he inherited in March. In an ideal world I would agree he should be given January but we absolutely cannot go down and I think that’s where we are heading.

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Re: Clement

by Royalwaster » 11 Nov 2018 11:16

The context is though that Clement was clearly given a rather limited budget to fill the gaps and I think has done OKish ... signed a few frees and somehow turned Meite into a striker. Others signings have been flops but that happens when you have limited budget ... I do think that another manager COULD turn it around, but that would depend on getting a really good one, but I doubt there is anyone that good waiting in the wings so I'd stick with what we've got.

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Re: Clement

by Cape Town Royal » 11 Nov 2018 11:50

Royalwaster wrote:The context is though that Clement was clearly given a rather limited budget to fill the gaps and I think has done OKish ... signed a few frees and somehow turned Meite into a striker. Others signings have been flops but that happens when you have limited budget ... I do think that another manager COULD turn it around, but that would depend on getting a really good one, but I doubt there is anyone that good waiting in the wings so I'd stick with what we've got.


I'm still unsure of PC, but regarding Meite he deserves some credit. Came back from loan and PC has seen something in him that has transformed him into a key player this season...

Will be interesting to what happens to Novakovich (spelling?) at the end of this season...

Listening to his interview yesterday, you get the sense that he can see the problems, he's working on them, but come Saturday, they just don't follow the plan as we saw in the first half yesterday. Then second half you see they are playing for him, because they went for it... is it confidence, trust in each other as a team.? Trust in his tactics? Hard to say because we so erratic... just not sure... Maybe they all need to see a shrink!

I know one thing, if I was a manager who spent all week working on a plan and then for 45 minutes on the Saturday the team does the opposite I'd be as frustrated as PC sounded when he was interviewed after the game.

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Re: Clement

by Cape Town Royal » 11 Nov 2018 11:51

Royalwaster wrote:The context is though that Clement was clearly given a rather limited budget to fill the gaps and I think has done OKish ... signed a few frees and somehow turned Meite into a striker. Others signings have been flops but that happens when you have limited budget ... I do think that another manager COULD turn it around, but that would depend on getting a really good one, but I doubt there is anyone that good waiting in the wings so I'd stick with what we've got.


I'm still unsure of PC, but regarding Meite he deserves some credit. Came back from loan and PC has seen something in him that has transformed him into a key player this season...

Will be interesting to what happens to Novakovich (spelling?) at the end of this season...

Listening to his interview yesterday, you get the sense that he can see the problems, he's working on them, but come Saturday, they just don't follow the plan as we saw in the first half yesterday. Then second half you see they are playing for him, because they went for it... is it confidence, trust in each other as a team.? Trust in his tactics? Hard to say because we so erratic... just not sure... Maybe they all need to see a shrink!

I know one thing, if I was a manager who spent all week working on a plan and then for 45 minutes on the Saturday the team does the opposite I'd be as frustrated as PC sounded when he was interviewed after the game.

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Re: Clement

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Nov 2018 13:07

One transfer window was never going to be enough. Fixing us is a long term project.

There are plenty of reasons to trust Clement. He kept us up last season. He clearly has an honest, pragmatic and accurate understanding of the problems. He's taken steps with transfers to address many of the problems intelligently, though of course not all have worked as you'd expect. He's moved pretty quickly to address major performance issues with individuals (McShane, Meyler, Aluko). He's addressed our achilles heel of not being able to score - you can't win if you don't score, but you can if you concede. He's cut the bullshit pass it round the back four, upping our tempo and making us more direct. We actually look like we at least want to score and win now, which often wasn't the case under Stam.

Clearly reaults aren't working. But there is simply no reason to think changing managers will help solve our problems because it's made very little difference to how good we look on most of the last three or four times we've done it. In fact it's seen us consistently get worse.

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Re: Clement

by leon » 11 Nov 2018 15:53

Snowflake Royal wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:
leon wrote:
Jesus Christ, we’re an absolute fcuking shambles.

We play the shittest team in the league and we make them look good.

The signings have been a shambles as well.

We need a tackling midfielder so we get in a bloke who wants to retire.

And we need a central defender so we get a bloke who really should retire.

Clement talks like a fan and not a leader.

That first half performance was possibly the worst 45 minutes I’ve seen Reading play.

Out.

Said it before but I'll say it again: Clement shouldn't get credit for his "honest" post match assessments. Recognising the problems week after week and being incapable of stopping them indicates, to me at least, a major problems with his abilities as a manager.

It does us no good him saying "we were so bad, I didn't recognise the players.." after each poor performance when he seems to have no idea how to get a good performance or even a consistently average performance out of this group.

I am puzzled by the faith shown in him. If someone could be arsed going through my posting history they'll see I'm normally overly supportive of managers and agree that chopping and changing does teams little good for the most part but what we have here is a manager with no discernable identity, no style or character that is represented on the pitch. He has no identity as a manager and that reflects on the pitch.

You can't polish a turd.
Clement fixed the Meyler mistake with Ezatolahi who didn't even get injured on our watch.
We got a decent performance last week.

The issues aren't tactics or team selection. They're the players and he's picking the best he has for the most part.

Love how you and Leon have banged on about how Barrow must play and dropping him for discipline issues was wrong, then he comes back in and fart arses about rather than be the saviour you seem to think he is.


Eh? Don’t remember saying he was our saviour, rather he was our best player last season and can hardly be dismissed as a luxury player.

He had a poor game yesterday but so did everyone else.

Anyway, there’s only so many times Clement can say how cross he is with the team and I think he’s run out now.

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Re: Clement

by Lower West » 11 Nov 2018 22:28

Snowflake Royal wrote:
Lower West wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:O'Shea was daft


For the players coming through. Such as Rinomhota. Worth every penny. We need role models in the squad. Players that have achieved in their careers. Not ones content to milk big wages for simply turning up. O'Shea won't hold back behind closed doors.

This the same guy who's on for being relegated three times in three seasons? Great example he is.


Must have done something in his carrer to warrant 673 appearances . In the process has won

5 premiership titles
1 FA Cup
2 League Cups
4 Community Shield
1 Champions League

Who else in the current Reading squad has won anything? Cannot buy what he brings off the pitch.



Was a handball at Sunderland last year that made the difference to our season. Rather than going a goal up, Sunderland were reduced to 10 men. Changed the game. We might have won 3-0 in the end. Doesn't reflect the actual game until the turning point. If we had lost then...........

Mind you Stam would have gone quicker.

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