MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by RoyalBlue » 10 Aug 2022 19:21

Hound Not sure crisis is the right word. Restriction maybe

Not like we can’t pay the bills, just can’t get the players in that’d we like to


Agreed. Whilst Mr Dai continues to back us there's no risk of being wound up for not paying creditors like HMRC. The EFL might not like the expenditure but we can still pay our way thanks to the owner(s).

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Reid: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Snowflake Royal » 10 Aug 2022 19:58

I'd describe a points deduction, 3 years of transfer embargos of some kind and an enforced wage cap all for financial impropriety and years of wages at over 100% of income, up top 200%+, as a financial crisis personally.

Derby being in a worse crisis with added ownership crisis doesn’t make our issues any less bad than they are imo. Perhaps theirs was more financial armageddon.

But I may be alone in that. Wouldn’t be the first or last time.

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Re: Reid: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Zip » 10 Aug 2022 20:14

Snowflake Royal I'd describe a points deduction, 3 years of transfer embargos of some kind and an enforced wage cap all for financial impropriety and years of wages at over 100% of income, up top 200%+, as a financial crisis personally.

Derby being in a worse crisis with added ownership crisis doesn’t make our issues any less bad than they are imo. Perhaps theirs was more financial armageddon.

But I may be alone in that. Wouldn’t be the first or last time.


I’d say it’s gross financial mismanagement rather than crisis because at no stage have we been at risk of going under.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Broxroyal » 10 Aug 2022 20:22

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John Smith John Clarke looked horrific. One of the worst displays I've seen in a long time

(probably since van den Berg)


First half poor - second half was decent

Nice to hear Ince praising Camara. Hoepfully will involve him now


Agreed. Clarke and G-W both played out of position first half and it showed. They were far better when they switched after half time.

Camara was very good when he came on, although their centre backs had two big, mobile strikers to deal with by then. Be interesting to see how he does when we play one up top and he's got a little less space. Definitely deserves a chance though.


John Clarke and G-W are both left backs by trade i.e would be left back in a back four. As we are not currently playing that formation, any left back has to either operate as a wing back or a left-central defender.
Ince tried them one way round in the first half and switched them in the second. if he has learned anything last night it is that G-W is the better wing back and Clarke the better left-central defender.

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Re: Reid: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Nameless » 10 Aug 2022 21:18

Zip
Snowflake Royal I'd describe a points deduction, 3 years of transfer embargos of some kind and an enforced wage cap all for financial impropriety and years of wages at over 100% of income, up top 200%+, as a financial crisis personally.

Derby being in a worse crisis with added ownership crisis doesn’t make our issues any less bad than they are imo. Perhaps theirs was more financial armageddon.

But I may be alone in that. Wouldn’t be the first or last time.


I’d say it’s gross financial mismanagement rather than crisis because at no stage have we been at risk of going under.


We’ve had worse ‘crises’ under previous owners.
This stuff is kind of artificial. If they set the parameters for FFP differently we’d not have had a problem (which is not to say breaching the parameters as set was not stupid). We’ve not been in debt to third parties, we’ve not got in trouble with the tax man, we’ve paid the players.


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Esteban » 10 Aug 2022 23:49

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First half poor - second half was decent

Nice to hear Ince praising Camara. Hoepfully will involve him now


Agreed. Clarke and G-W both played out of position first half and it showed. They were far better when they switched after half time.

Camara was very good when he came on, although their centre backs had two big, mobile strikers to deal with by then. Be interesting to see how he does when we play one up top and he's got a little less space. Definitely deserves a chance though.


John Clarke and G-W are both left backs by trade i.e would be left back in a back four. As we are not currently playing that formation, any left back has to either operate as a wing back or a left-central defender.
Ince tried them one way round in the first half and switched them in the second. if he has learned anything last night it is that G-W is the better wing back and Clarke the better left-central defender.


Fair enough, I didn't realise Clarke is a left back.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Aug 2022 08:11

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Agreed. Clarke and G-W both played out of position first half and it showed. They were far better when they switched after half time.

Camara was very good when he came on, although their centre backs had two big, mobile strikers to deal with by then. Be interesting to see how he does when we play one up top and he's got a little less space. Definitely deserves a chance though.


John Clarke and G-W are both left backs by trade i.e would be left back in a back four. As we are not currently playing that formation, any left back has to either operate as a wing back or a left-central defender.
Ince tried them one way round in the first half and switched them in the second. if he has learned anything last night it is that G-W is the better wing back and Clarke the better left-central defender.


Fair enough, I didn't realise Clarke is a left back.

Given that Clarke came on against West Ham and played well at LCB and came on against Cardiff and briefly seemed to play LCB, and NGW is a recognised full back / wing back and has only been used by us there previously, not CB, if it took Ince 45 minutes against Stevenage to work out NGW isn't a CB and Clarke is better at LCB than LWB - we're in trouble. Because that should be self-evident.

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Re: Reid: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by paultheroyal » 11 Aug 2022 09:11

Zip
Snowflake Royal I'd describe a points deduction, 3 years of transfer embargos of some kind and an enforced wage cap all for financial impropriety and years of wages at over 100% of income, up top 200%+, as a financial crisis personally.

Derby being in a worse crisis with added ownership crisis doesn’t make our issues any less bad than they are imo. Perhaps theirs was more financial armageddon.

But I may be alone in that. Wouldn’t be the first or last time.


I’d say it’s gross financial mismanagement rather than crisis because at no stage have we been at risk of going under.


Absolutely this. End of.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Aug 2022 09:33

So at this point we're just talking semantics about the right word rather than that everything's fine. Righto.


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Nameless » 11 Aug 2022 09:37

Snowflake Royal So at this point we're just talking semantics about the right word rather than that everything's fine. Righto.


So you’ve decided to stop being the prophet of doom ?
If you are happy to stop always framing everything in the worst possible terms then I’m sure everyone would be happy.
No one in the history of HNA has claimed everything is fine, that doesn’t make it a crisis though.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by muirinho » 11 Aug 2022 10:07

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John Clarke and G-W are both left backs by trade i.e would be left back in a back four. As we are not currently playing that formation, any left back has to either operate as a wing back or a left-central defender.
Ince tried them one way round in the first half and switched them in the second. if he has learned anything last night it is that G-W is the better wing back and Clarke the better left-central defender.


Fair enough, I didn't realise Clarke is a left back.

Given that Clarke came on against West Ham and played well at LCB and came on against Cardiff and briefly seemed to play LCB, and NGW is a recognised full back / wing back and has only been used by us there previously, not CB, if it took Ince 45 minutes against Stevenage to work out NGW isn't a CB and Clarke is better at LCB than LWB - we're in trouble. Because that should be self-evident.



Or, you know, given that the Cup isn't a priority anyway, taking the opportunity to try out players in different positions might be useful. To establish what players can cover where, and how well it works. Because you can't really find that out in training, as it's just not the same as a senior competitive match.

But obviously, if there's a more negative explanation, then that absolutely has to be the answer

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Nameless » 11 Aug 2022 10:34

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Fair enough, I didn't realise Clarke is a left back.

Given that Clarke came on against West Ham and played well at LCB and came on against Cardiff and briefly seemed to play LCB, and NGW is a recognised full back / wing back and has only been used by us there previously, not CB, if it took Ince 45 minutes against Stevenage to work out NGW isn't a CB and Clarke is better at LCB than LWB - we're in trouble. Because that should be self-evident.



Or, you know, given that the Cup isn't a priority anyway, taking the opportunity to try out players in different positions might be useful. To establish what players can cover where, and how well it works. Because you can't really find that out in training, as it's just not the same as a senior competitive match.

But obviously, if there's a more negative explanation, then that absolutely has to be the answer


I’m sure Ian will be able to demand an answer from the manager tonight at the forum.
Assuming he’s joined STAR.

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Re: Reid: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 11 Aug 2022 10:40

Zip
Snowflake Royal I'd describe a points deduction, 3 years of transfer embargos of some kind and an enforced wage cap all for financial impropriety and years of wages at over 100% of income, up top 200%+, as a financial crisis personally.

Derby being in a worse crisis with added ownership crisis doesn’t make our issues any less bad than they are imo. Perhaps theirs was more financial armageddon.

But I may be alone in that. Wouldn’t be the first or last time.


I’d say it’s gross financial mismanagement rather than crisis because at no stage have we been at risk of going under.


That really. We've had a owner who has been willing to fund our overspending for the clubs' standard, so that's not the issue. The issue (and subsequent crisis) would be if the owner is no longer willing to fund the club and leave us with a shed load of debt, but we seem to have gone someway to reducing our losses through the Business Plan, player sales, high earners departing etc. So I'm expecting the situation to have eased significantly when our profit/loss accounts are released later this season.


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Hound » 11 Aug 2022 10:41

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Fair enough, I didn't realise Clarke is a left back.

Given that Clarke came on against West Ham and played well at LCB and came on against Cardiff and briefly seemed to play LCB, and NGW is a recognised full back / wing back and has only been used by us there previously, not CB, if it took Ince 45 minutes against Stevenage to work out NGW isn't a CB and Clarke is better at LCB than LWB - we're in trouble. Because that should be self-evident.



Or, you know, given that the Cup isn't a priority anyway, taking the opportunity to try out players in different positions might be useful. To establish what players can cover where, and how well it works. Because you can't really find that out in training, as it's just not the same as a senior competitive match.

But obviously, if there's a more negative explanation, then that absolutely has to be the answer


Yeah that. Experiment and see how it goes. Maybe just wanted to see it Clarke is any sort of back up option for LB. Fine by me

NGW did fine at LCB as well. Not amazing but ok

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Re: Reid: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Hound » 11 Aug 2022 10:43

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Snowflake Royal I'd describe a points deduction, 3 years of transfer embargos of some kind and an enforced wage cap all for financial impropriety and years of wages at over 100% of income, up top 200%+, as a financial crisis personally.

Derby being in a worse crisis with added ownership crisis doesn’t make our issues any less bad than they are imo. Perhaps theirs was more financial armageddon.

But I may be alone in that. Wouldn’t be the first or last time.


I’d say it’s gross financial mismanagement rather than crisis because at no stage have we been at risk of going under.


That really. We've had a owner who has been willing to fund our overspending for the clubs' standard, so that's not the issue. The issue (and subsequent crisis) would be if the owner is no longer willing to fund the club and leave us with a shed load of debt, but we seem to have gone someway to reducing our losses through the Business Plan, player sales, high earners departing etc. So I'm expecting the situation to have eased significantly when our profit/loss accounts are released later this season.


Also tbf Bournemouth, Wolves, Leicester, Villa, Fulham and prob a few others have all managed to get promoted with gross financial mismanagement

We just bought shite players rather than good ones

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Re: Reid: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 11 Aug 2022 11:14

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I’d say it’s gross financial mismanagement rather than crisis because at no stage have we been at risk of going under.


That really. We've had a owner who has been willing to fund our overspending for the clubs' standard, so that's not the issue. The issue (and subsequent crisis) would be if the owner is no longer willing to fund the club and leave us with a shed load of debt, but we seem to have gone someway to reducing our losses through the Business Plan, player sales, high earners departing etc. So I'm expecting the situation to have eased significantly when our profit/loss accounts are released later this season.


Also tbf Bournemouth, Wolves, Leicester, Villa, Fulham and prob a few others have all managed to get promoted with gross financial mismanagement

We just bought shite players rather than good ones


Ultimately that as well that didn't help us.

What baffles me more is, how we were "gunning" for promotion and only had 1 season where we finished in the top half, the last one before our points deduction. I don't know why someone didn't realise after our back-to-back 20th placed finish, that it wasn't going to materialise. (We may have been too deep in the mire by then to feasibly get out of the mess).

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Re: Reid: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Sutekh » 11 Aug 2022 11:46

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I’d say it’s gross financial mismanagement rather than crisis because at no stage have we been at risk of going under.


That really. We've had a owner who has been willing to fund our overspending for the clubs' standard, so that's not the issue. The issue (and subsequent crisis) would be if the owner is no longer willing to fund the club and leave us with a shed load of debt, but we seem to have gone someway to reducing our losses through the Business Plan, player sales, high earners departing etc. So I'm expecting the situation to have eased significantly when our profit/loss accounts are released later this season.


Also tbf Bournemouth, Wolves, Leicester, Villa, Fulham and prob a few others have all managed to get promoted with gross financial mismanagement

We just bought shite players rather than good ones


The utterly terrible managerial appointments didn’t exactly help either. No point spending anything on players when you don’t put resource, money and support into trying to get the management team right.

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Re: Reid: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Hound » 11 Aug 2022 11:50

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That really. We've had a owner who has been willing to fund our overspending for the clubs' standard, so that's not the issue. The issue (and subsequent crisis) would be if the owner is no longer willing to fund the club and leave us with a shed load of debt, but we seem to have gone someway to reducing our losses through the Business Plan, player sales, high earners departing etc. So I'm expecting the situation to have eased significantly when our profit/loss accounts are released later this season.


Also tbf Bournemouth, Wolves, Leicester, Villa, Fulham and prob a few others have all managed to get promoted with gross financial mismanagement

We just bought shite players rather than good ones


The utterly terrible managerial appointments didn’t exactly help either. No point spending anything on players when you don’t put resource, money and support into trying to get the management team right.


Yep indeed. Just terrible management all round really.

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Re: Reid: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by SCIAG » 11 Aug 2022 11:56

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That really. We've had a owner who has been willing to fund our overspending for the clubs' standard, so that's not the issue. The issue (and subsequent crisis) would be if the owner is no longer willing to fund the club and leave us with a shed load of debt, but we seem to have gone someway to reducing our losses through the Business Plan, player sales, high earners departing etc. So I'm expecting the situation to have eased significantly when our profit/loss accounts are released later this season.


Also tbf Bournemouth, Wolves, Leicester, Villa, Fulham and prob a few others have all managed to get promoted with gross financial mismanagement

We just bought shite players rather than good ones


Ultimately that as well that didn't help us.

What baffles me more is, how we were "gunning" for promotion and only had 1 season where we finished in the top half, the last one before our points deduction. I don't know why someone didn't realise after our back-to-back 20th placed finish, that it wasn't going to materialise. (We may have been too deep in the mire by then to feasibly get out of the mess).

The Dais didn’t throw silly money at us for very long.

When they took over we had just finished third. We then lost the playoff final on penalties. Promotion was a realistic aim. They spent a lot to shore us up. Signed replacements for Al Habsi, Kermorgant, and Williams, an upgrade on Gunter, and for some reason two new wingers.

The next year we only had one major signing, Baldock. McNulty for £1m was hardly breaking the bank.

The year after that we were under our first embargo but still signed Puscas and Joao. And since then the only fee we’ve paid was to make Ejaria’s loan permanent.

In their first year, all that spending “made sense” because we’d just come so close to getting promoted. After that, with hindsight Puscas and Baldock were bad signings, and we should have sold Moore when we had the chance, but we didn’t sign five players every summer for big fees. That first summer was a huge weight around us when nobody seemed to know what they were doing.

Blimey, when you put it like that… in the last five years we have only signed five players for fees. Admittedly for something like £16m…

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Hound » 11 Aug 2022 12:03

For the last 3 seasons we’ve mainly been made up of loans and freebies tbh

Even when we came 8th we generally only had Joao, Moore and Ejaria who had cost us a fee

Don’t think it was so much the signings as the stupid wages on long contracts - we had the likes of McCleary, Yann, Gunter, Baldock, Obita on big contracts and bit part players whilst also offering big money to Swift, Moore, Kelly, Joao, Puscas etc. was just silly

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