Rivals to the "106" team?

[RockheadRumple]

if it werent for Zurab Khizanishvili we'd be in prem now anyway

thx Zurab Khizanishvili

That's just foolish. If anything it was Harte and Griffin's lack of pace that cost us in the PO Final with the two CBs, particularly Khiz, being dragged out of position. Although it was more the pace of Dyer and Sinclair vs the lack thereof from Harte and Griffin, two full backs whom I love. Watching Khiz play was like watching Berbatov playing in defence. He was immense throughout the season and performed not so well (but not terribly) in the only game where he failed to keep the cool head he had maintained for the whole season.

On an unrelated note I think we are better prepared for the Premier League this season anyway, what with TSI joining and all.

On a more related note you are an imbecile of the highest order. You belong in the HNA? moron hall of fame along with 1TeamInBerks and bracknell-royal.

[Snowball]

That us being very lucky with injury that season is a myth. And one begun by our dear friend Colin.

Have to disagree

46 (0) 46/46 Ivar Ingimarsson
46 (0) 46/46 Ibrahima Sonko
44 (1) 45/46 James Harper
45 (0) 45/46 Marcus Hahnemann
45 (0) 45/46 Bobby Convey
41 (4) 45/46 Kevin Doyle
40 (0) 40/46 Nicky Shorey
40 (0) 40/46 Graeme Murty

To have both centre-backs play every game, the keeper miss one
and both FBs play 40 is IMMENSE

And the two centre midfielders were together for about 30 games

One centre forward missed ONE game


How can you pretend that was ragged?

[Wimb]

That us being very lucky with injury that season is a myth. And one begun by our dear friend Colin.

Have to disagree

46 (0) 46/46 Ivar Ingimarsson
46 (0) 46/46 Ibrahima Sonko
44 (1) 45/46 James Harper
45 (0) 45/46 Marcus Hahnemann
45 (0) 45/46 Bobby Convey
41 (4) 45/46 Kevin Doyle
40 (0) 40/46 Nicky Shorey
40 (0) 40/46 Graeme Murty

To have both centre-backs play every game, the keeper miss one
and both FBs play 40 is IMMENSE

And the two centre midfielders were together for about 30 games

One centre forward missed ONE game


How can you pretend that was ragged?

Got to agree with Snowers here, that is a fantastic injury record for us to have especially when you consider that some of those 'missed' games were in the closing weeks when promotion was signed and sealed.

Having a settled side is a key component to success and one way to keep a settled side is to have a bit of luck with injuries. Don't think that takes anything away from the success of that team, but it was one of a number of factors that helped us perform quite so well.

[Platypuss]

Not just lack of injuries, but excellent discipline played a part in them all playing so many games - and that's not down to luck.

[Vision]

That us being very lucky with injury that season is a myth. And one begun by our dear friend Colin.

Have to disagree

46 (0) 46/46 Ivar Ingimarsson
46 (0) 46/46 Ibrahima Sonko
44 (1) 45/46 James Harper
45 (0) 45/46 Marcus Hahnemann
45 (0) 45/46 Bobby Convey
41 (4) 45/46 Kevin Doyle
40 (0) 40/46 Nicky Shorey
40 (0) 40/46 Graeme Murty

To have both centre-backs play every game, the keeper miss one
and both FBs play 40 is IMMENSE

And the two centre midfielders were together for about 30 games

One centre forward missed ONE game


How can you pretend that was ragged?

You're the one who keeps saying our season didn't really start until Kaspers arrived. Since then both centre-halves and keeper have played every game and Leigertwood & Karacan would be comparable to Sidwell/Harper.

Up-front we've rotated a bit more out of choice this season but that more a factor of having better depth in our squad than merely injuries.There's no real reason or anyone to play now who isn't 90% fit because I believe we have better depth to cover them than 05/06 and certainly none of our strikers suffered an injury as lengthy as Lita did.

So it really only leaves, as you say the full back positions but once again part of that isn't simply an injury issue but is also a product of having a deeper squad.

Certainly being able to keep your spine certainly Keeper/centre-halves/Centre midfield fit for virtually a whole 46 game season might be considered lucky and unusual but to be honest we've pretty much done that this season every bit as much as 05/06.

[Wimb]

Wasn't Lita's injury quite late into the season? Think it was at Burnley in March if I remember correctly.

When you consider that a football starting lineup had 11 players, I think having 8 players with 40 games or more vs having 6 this year is a bit of a difference.

Out of interest, looking at those who played 40+ times in the Championship since we went up in 2002.

2002/03 = 4
2003/04 = 2
2004/05 = 6
2005/06 = 8
2008/09 = 3
2009/10 = 2
2010/11 = 3
2011/12 = 2 (max 6)

Again there's more to just injuries involved but that's quite a noticeable jump from the average.

[Vision]

Wasn't Lita's injury quite late into the season? Think it was at Burnley in March if I remember correctly.

When you consider that a football starting lineup had 11 players, I think having 8 players with 40 games or more vs having 6 this year is a bit of a difference.

Out of interest, looking at those who played 40+ times in the Championship since we went up in 2002.

2002/03 = 4
2003/04 = 2
2004/05 = 6
2005/06 = 8
2008/09 = 3
2009/10 = 2
2010/11 = 3
2011/12 = 2 (max 6)

Again there's more to just injuries involved but that's quite a noticeable jump from the average.

Well thats kind of my point. This squad has far better depth in it than 05/06. Players are now more likely to be left out if there's a niggle than back then as the replacements are of a higher calibre. Also if you consider that this season we've brought players in Roberts/Connolly who came straight into the side, not something that happened in 05/06.

The other point isn't really that the 05/06 side didn't have a very good injury (and as Platypus points out disciplinary record as well) record just that in my view it isn't that much different to this season really. Feds, Gorkss/Pearce, Karacan/Leigertwood, have all been available for selection for just as high a % as their conterparts in 05/06.

[Wimb]

Wasn't Lita's injury quite late into the season? Think it was at Burnley in March if I remember correctly.

When you consider that a football starting lineup had 11 players, I think having 8 players with 40 games or more vs having 6 this year is a bit of a difference.

Out of interest, looking at those who played 40+ times in the Championship since we went up in 2002.

2002/03 = 4
2003/04 = 2
2004/05 = 6
2005/06 = 8
2008/09 = 3
2009/10 = 2
2010/11 = 3
2011/12 = 2 (max 6)

Again there's more to just injuries involved but that's quite a noticeable jump from the average.

Well thats kind of my point. This squad has far better depth in it than 05/06. Players are now more likely to be left out if there's a niggle than back then as the replacements are of a higher calibre. Also if you consider that this season we've brought players in Roberts/Connolly who came straight into the side, not something that happened in 05/06.

The other point isn't really that the 05/06 side didn't have a very good injury (and as Platypus points out disciplinary record as well) record just that in my view it isn't that much different to this season really. Feds, Gorkss/Pearce, Karacan/Leigertwood, have all been available for selection for just as high a % as their conterparts in 05/06.

I agree that this year we've had equally good fortune/luck whatever you want to call it with injuries, part of why we've been so successful.

Interesting on the point about having a stronger squad, I think that this 2012 squad is deeper but I'm not sure it has more quality than we had in 2006.

2005/06 - Backups

Stack
Makin
Dobson
Osano/Brown
Golbourne
Shunt
Gunnarsson
Halls
Oster
Lita
Long

2011/12 - Backups

Andersen/McCarthy
Griffin
Khumalo
Gunnarsson
J Mills
HRK
Tabb
D'Ath
Antonio
Church
ALF

I don't think there's a massive difference between the replacement options at fullback. Chris Makin was able at both left and right back and is around the same level as Griffin is today. John Halls and Golbourne were never really tested but I'd probably rather have Joe Mills all the same. Centre back wise we've managed to dodge bullets in both seasons, as the calibre of backups we've had hasn't been outstanding. This lot of options is probably better but then whether Sir Steve would have gone out and got a backup we'll never know.
Midfield I think the 2006 era had better options. Hunt/Oster/Gunnarsson are a better trio then HRK/Antonio/Tabb while up front having the likes of Lita and Long/Doyle on the bench just about nudge Alfie and Church though it's very close.

[Ian Royal]

People obviously missig the point.

Saying that we got very lucky with an injury free season is a myth, is not the same thing as saying we had an injury hit season. A big part of those appearance stats is because no one played poorly and needed dropping, very few suspensions, if any, as well as Platy mentions.

As an example our huge game against Sheffield Utd at home that season involved no Murty, Shorey, Sidwell or Kitson. Most teams would struggle with arguably its three best players (at least 3 from 4) out at the same time. Plus its captain. We still comfortably beat our nearest rivals for the title.

Injury wasn't a limiting factor because we were so fantastic, but we did have injury problems to contend with.

It pisses me off because I think it undermines what a fantastic achievement we made and even partially attributing it to being lucky with injuries is bollox. We were awesome. End of.

[Maguire]

if it werent for Zurab Khizanishvili we'd be in prem now anyway

thx Zurab Khizanishvili

That's just foolish. If anything it was Harte and Griffin's lack of pace that cost us in the PO Final with the two CBs, particularly Khiz, being dragged out of position. Although it was more the pace of Dyer and Sinclair vs the lack thereof from Harte and Griffin, two full backs whom I love. Watching Khiz play was like watching Berbatov playing in defence. He was immense throughout the season and performed not so well (but not terribly) in the only game where he failed to keep the cool head he had maintained for the whole season.

Sorry but Khiz had a 'mare in the p/o final, defo his worst game for Reading.

Goal 1 - Kebe loses the ball trying to dribble out of defence, low ball in, Khiz dives in on Dyer when he doesn't have to

Goal 2 - Khiz dives in on Dobbie when he doesn't have to, gets turned, Dobbie outpaces Harte and Sinclair taps in

Goal 3 - McAnuff (?) outpaced by Dyer, terrible clearance from Khiz and Dobbie slots home

Goal 4 - Griffin dives in on Borini when he doesn't need to.

I honestly think history has been rewritten as Sinclair's pace doing for us when none of the goals were to do with his pace - he scored two pens and tap-in, giving him the easiest hatrick ever. And none of the goals were Dyer or Sinclair outpacing Harte or Griffin.

We lost because three of the back four (Harte, Griffin, Khiz) player poorly and by the time we sorted ourselves out we were 3-0 down and the game was over. Shane missing a tap-in didn't help matters either.

[Vision]

@Wimb

I agree with the gist of what you're saying but for me there are a few salient points to make.

Take your point about Hunt/Oster/Gunnarrsson but in terms of actual matchwinning/saving contributions when coming off the bench or covering then Gunnarsson aside I think the likes of Le Fondre,Church,HRK even Manset earlier on in the season offer more of an option and more of a chance of ousting a 1st choice selection on merit. Oster/Hunt were important in preserving Little and to a lesser degree Convey by replacing them with plenty of time in games but I don't think they were ever in any danger of replacing them in the starting line up on merit at any stage. I think the 4 players I mentioned above have all had several starts this season and also could make a genuine claim to merit selection at various points of the season.

How many selection decisions did Coppell have to make in 05/06 as opposed to McD?

It was just as much that side's sheer consistency of performance and excellent disciplinary record as much as it's injury record that saw so many players play 40+ games.

Also who knows what effect Coppell's policy of changing virtually the whole line up for cup games would have had.

Can't say for sure of course but I'd hazard a guess that come the end of the season both Harte and Cummings would have been available for selection in 40 odd league games. The fact they haven't is IMHO more down to a loss of form in Harte's case and a feeling that Cummings wasn't quite ready yet rather than injury.

Kebe aside I don't think there's any player in the current side that could have played 40 + games for us this season but won't due to injury. In 05/06 Sidwell,Lita and Kitson would all have been considered 1st 11 players (bear in mind no-one was quite expecting Doyle to have the immediate impact he did) but were lost for lengthy periods (6 games or more) due to injury.

These are all minor points of course and most could be argued either way without much persuasion but it underlines for me that from an injury perspective there is little difference between the two seasons.

Hopefully this hasn't now put the mockers on and we suddenly suffer a rash of injuries for the run-in

EDIT: Also who knows what effect Coppell's policy of changing virtually the whole line up for cup games would have had Thats if Coppell's cup policy was in place in 05/06 of course. I'm not entirely sure.

[Hoop Blah]

1) Anyone who picks Kebe over Little needs their head testing.

2) We weren't lucky with a lack injuries, but we didn't suffer much from losing players. Our preparation under Nial Clark was excellent and his foundations were a big part of what kept a lot of players out on the pitch. Considering the tempo we played at that is outstanding. Good work by Fearn too of course. We didn't have any depth at the back either, only Makin was a worthy understudy for the back 4, so I'm sure they all played at times when they probably shouldn't have.

3) This team are doing a pretty good job of keeping key players on the pitch as well.

4) Why were Kitson and Lita only playing in shortened seasons snowball?

34 (1) 35/46 Glen Little
29 (4) 33/46 Steve Sidwell
27 (7) 34/36 Dave Kitson
22 (4) 26/26 Leroy Lita

I still think the 2006 team walks all over the current bunch in terms of ability, quality of player and how well they all played. The current team, under great management by McDermott in a results business, have a formula for winning games that works and works well. For most of the season it hasn't been pretty but it has been effective. For that reason I think only Leigertwood, McAnuff, Federici and Gorks would really push hard for a place in a combined side. I'm sure any of them woud actually make it either.

[Snowball]

My point about the 8/9 player backbone

wasn't just that they played 40+ games

but they had done the season before too


and the key to winning has always been holding together a core team and merely tweaking it.

[Extended-Phenotype]

On a side note, I hate it when people use injuries as some sort of excuse (a lack of for an opposition performing well, or an abundance of for their own team playing poorly).

Fitness is a quality just like skill. If players are trained well or they are strong and resilient, this is an attribute of the club or player, not luck. Strength in depth is also a club quality, not a chance happening.

“Well, oxf*rd City beat us to the title, but they can pass the ball better than us so it’s not really fair”.

Mungbean.

[pea]

2011/12 - Backups

Andersen/McCarthy
Griffin
[s]Khumalo[/s] Connolly
Gunnarsson
J Mills
HRK
Tabb
[s]D'Ath[/s] Mullins
[s]Antonio[/s] Cywka
[s]Church[/s] Afobe
ALF

Subs: Andersen, Khumalo/Morrison, Antonio, Church, Howard, Obita/Taylor/D'Ath

If you look at it like this though Wimb then thats a v. strong second string. That team could be a decent Championship side in its own right. Compared with a 106 squad that only really had quality backup in Makin, Hunt, Oster and Lita (and eventually Long)

[Ian Royal]

That's not entirely fair. Stack and Gunnarsson certainly would have done a job too. In fact Gunnarsson is extremely unlucky he had to compete against Sid and Harps. He'd have been a shoe in for many championship first XIs back then.

[andrew1957]

Anyone who thinks the 2005-6 squad was stronger overall than the 2011-12 squad is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Goalkeeper Hahnemann Stack 2
Left-back Shorey Makin Golbourne 3
Central defenders Ingimarsson Sonko Brown 3
Right-back Murty Halls 2
Central midfielders Sidwell Harper Gunnarsson 3
Right wingers Little Oster Sinnott 3
Left wingers Convey Hunt Hayes 3
Forwards Kitson Doyle Lita Long Cox Rendell 6

Total players in First team squad. 21 Players played in league games. Total 25


2011-12

Goalkeeper Federici Andersen McCarthy Locke 4
Right back Cummings Griffin Arnold 3
Central defenders Gorkss Pearce Connolly Gunnarsson Morrison Jack Mills
Hector MacDonald McHugh 9
Left back Harte Joe Mills Raymond 3
Defensive central midfielders Leigertwood Karacan Tabb Mullins
Gage C.Edwards Goddard 7
Attacking central midfielder/ hole Howard D’Ath Taylor 3
Attacking wide midfielders McAnuff Kebe Robson-Kanu Cywka Antonio Obita Losasso
R.EdwardsWalcott 9
Central strikers Roberts Hunt Afobe Le Fondre Church Manset Williams
Baseya Sheppard Bignall Ugwu Murphy Samuel 13

Total with squad numbers 51

[Ian Royal]

I'm sure we had more youth players than that at the time. Bit misleading. You missed Baradji and Obinna too.

We're still coming down from being a Prem team in reality so we do have a bigger squad certainly. And we've probably got more strength in depth throughout the whole team as well, but we've certainly not got a comparable first XI - XIV in terms of quality.

[sheshnu]

Agreed Ian, and the evidence is there for all to see as this team hasn't minced the league and - although I'd like to see it - probably wouldn't come 8th in the Premier League next year. The 106 team contained some of the best players we'll ever see play for Reading and they worked as a unit at least as well as people are saying this team do. Can't believe that for example some fans are leaving out Little and Ingimarsson from their 'Dream XI'. It was a pleasure and a privilege to watch those boys.

I don't think there are any current players who would get into Coppell's first team (although a number of them would improve the squad!) I can name a few 106 players who, then or now, would improve Brian's team dramatically.

[The Rouge]

if it werent for Zurab Khizanishvili we'd be in prem now anyway

thx Zurab Khizanishvili

That's just foolish. If anything it was Harte and Griffin's lack of pace that cost us in the PO Final with the two CBs, particularly Khiz, being dragged out of position. Although it was more the pace of Dyer and Sinclair vs the lack thereof from Harte and Griffin, two full backs whom I love. Watching Khiz play was like watching Berbatov playing in defence. He was immense throughout the season and performed not so well (but not terribly) in the only game where he failed to keep the cool head he had maintained for the whole season.

Sorry but Khiz had a 'mare in the p/o final, defo his worst game for Reading.

Goal 1 - Kebe loses the ball trying to dribble out of defence, low ball in, Khiz dives in on Dyer when he doesn't have to

Goal 2 - Khiz dives in on Dobbie when he doesn't have to, gets turned, Dobbie outpaces Harte and Sinclair taps in

Goal 3 - McAnuff (?) outpaced by Dyer, terrible clearance from Khiz and Dobbie slots home

Goal 4 - Griffin dives in on Borini when he doesn't need to.

I honestly think history has been rewritten as Sinclair's pace doing for us when none of the goals were to do with his pace - he scored two pens and tap-in, giving him the easiest hatrick ever. And none of the goals were Dyer or Sinclair outpacing Harte or Griffin.

We lost because three of the back four (Harte, Griffin, Khiz) player poorly and by the time we sorted ourselves out we were 3-0 down and the game was over. Shane missing a tap-in didn't help matters either.

Agree with this. Also think Leigertwood was massively below par in that game. Strange really as I would have had Khiz and Leigertwood nailed on to have put in a good shift in this game.