Opposition fans back from the game

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karbota
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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by karbota » 12 Dec 2022 15:03

From Despair To Where? Its not all cherry picked though and IMO, it shouldn't be either. I'd rather read a cross section of opinions that reflects what the whole fanbase is saying.

How would you feel if other fans judged us on dd's rambling nonsense?


You're not the same poster?.
Last edited by karbota on 12 Dec 2022 15:06, edited 1 time in total.

karbota
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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by karbota » 12 Dec 2022 15:05

Ascotexgunner Ironic that they slag us off in such a manner. Now they are in a mess and face eviction, and with FFP being lifted on us hopefully, they have one or two players worth looking at that would prefer a more stable club with a better future. I'd start with Sheaf. Surprised he was taken off. Constantly moping up and running into space and looking to create something. Looks a creative option.


You are joking, right?

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Royals and Racers » 27 Dec 2022 21:46

Bring on the Taffs !! should be fun :D

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by paultheroyal » 27 Dec 2022 22:19

Royals and Racers Bring on the Taffs !! should be fun :D


Will do a proper review later but surprisingly little but in summary.

Swansea are shit.
Reading are shitter.
Martin out.
Martin to Norwich.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by JedMaxwell » 28 Dec 2022 10:03

Will be interesting to get their take on Lumley's antics at the end.

I always find it strange that fans can be incredibly abusive to players, but if a player gives a bit back it's the most scandalous thing to ever happen. I think it's great when players have that kind of interaction with the crowd, although there is always a danger that some sets of fans will react very poorly to it then you might get one or two idiots trying to get on the pitch. It's a fine line but one Lumley likes to dance upon.


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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Nameless » 28 Dec 2022 10:24

JedMaxwell Will be interesting to get their take on Lumley's antics at the end.

I always find it strange that fans can be incredibly abusive to players, but if a player gives a bit back it's the most scandalous thing to ever happen. I think it's great when players have that kind of interaction with the crowd, although there is always a danger that some sets of fans will react very poorly to it then you might get one or two idiots trying to get on the pitch. It's a fine line but one Lumley likes to dance upon.


Similarly it is bizarre that fans will complain about ‘time wasting’ as if it were the greatest crime in football (when it is probably the equivalent of a traffic warden giving you a bit of a look when you are 2 mins over on a meter).
It was amusing seeing their centre forward waving his arms around complaining about Lumley whilst also trying to stop Lumley kick the ball….

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by JedMaxwell » 28 Dec 2022 10:40

Nameless
JedMaxwell Will be interesting to get their take on Lumley's antics at the end.

I always find it strange that fans can be incredibly abusive to players, but if a player gives a bit back it's the most scandalous thing to ever happen. I think it's great when players have that kind of interaction with the crowd, although there is always a danger that some sets of fans will react very poorly to it then you might get one or two idiots trying to get on the pitch. It's a fine line but one Lumley likes to dance upon.


Similarly it is bizarre that fans will complain about ‘time wasting’ as if it were the greatest crime in football (when it is probably the equivalent of a traffic warden giving you a bit of a look when you are 2 mins over on a meter).
It was amusing seeing their centre forward waving his arms around complaining about Lumley whilst also trying to stop Lumley kick the ball….


Haha yes, blocking the keeper then moaning when he can't get a kick away is supreme idiocy.

Time wasting is annoying when you're losing but great when you're winning. It pretty much evens out over a season I'd say.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Nameless » 28 Dec 2022 11:02

JedMaxwell
Nameless
JedMaxwell Will be interesting to get their take on Lumley's antics at the end.

I always find it strange that fans can be incredibly abusive to players, but if a player gives a bit back it's the most scandalous thing to ever happen. I think it's great when players have that kind of interaction with the crowd, although there is always a danger that some sets of fans will react very poorly to it then you might get one or two idiots trying to get on the pitch. It's a fine line but one Lumley likes to dance upon.


Similarly it is bizarre that fans will complain about ‘time wasting’ as if it were the greatest crime in football (when it is probably the equivalent of a traffic warden giving you a bit of a look when you are 2 mins over on a meter).
It was amusing seeing their centre forward waving his arms around complaining about Lumley whilst also trying to stop Lumley kick the ball….


Haha yes, blocking the keeper then moaning when he can't get a kick away is supreme idiocy.

Time wasting is annoying when you're losing but great when you're winning. It pretty much evens out over a season I'd say.


Big teams get away with it because for these of City , Liverpool and Brighton it is ‘game management’, which is a good thing….

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by LUX » 28 Dec 2022 11:13

Surely the fourth official just adds extra minutes on?


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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Hound » 28 Dec 2022 11:14

LUX Surely the fourth official just adds extra minutes on?


To an extent but they rarely cover all the time that’s wasted. Though I suspect that 6 mins yesterday which seemed high prob included a fair bit for it

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by JedMaxwell » 28 Dec 2022 11:32

I still think they should have a game clock managed by the ref/fourth official. It can be connected to a digital clock at either end of the ground, available for all to see, and also connected to the other officials' watches for continuity and back up.

Therefore, no added time, and you get a guaranteed 60 or 70 minutes of play time depending on what they decide is the better length. Of course players will still take time to manage the game and slow down the tempo when they're ahead like we see now, but it won't cause any time to be lost from the clock. I imagine if they really take the mick there can be provision for time wasting bookings.

I've not really thought out the cons of this so happy for others to poo-poo it.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by tmesis » 28 Dec 2022 12:23

JedMaxwell I still think they should have a game clock managed by the ref/fourth official. It can be connected to a digital clock at either end of the ground, available for all to see, and also connected to the other officials' watches for continuity and back up.

Therefore, no added time, and you get a guaranteed 60 or 70 minutes of play time depending on what they decide is the better length. Of course players will still take time to manage the game and slow down the tempo when they're ahead like we see now, but it won't cause any time to be lost from the clock. I imagine if they really take the mick there can be provision for time wasting bookings.

I've not really thought out the cons of this so happy for others to poo-poo it.

I would love to see an independent time-keeper, even if they add time on as they do now.

It would give the ref one less thing he has to concentrate on, but also it would mean the game ends when the time is actually up, rather than them blowing at the first non-controversial passage of play after the indicated time has elapsed, as they clearly do now.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Nameless » 28 Dec 2022 12:26

JedMaxwell I still think they should have a game clock managed by the ref/fourth official. It can be connected to a digital clock at either end of the ground, available for all to see, and also connected to the other officials' watches for continuity and back up.

Therefore, no added time, and you get a guaranteed 60 or 70 minutes of play time depending on what they decide is the better length. Of course players will still take time to manage the game and slow down the tempo when they're ahead like we see now, but it won't cause any time to be lost from the clock. I imagine if they really take the mick there can be provision for time wasting bookings.

I've not really thought out the cons of this so happy for others to poo-poo it.


Woukd be a pretty radical change as currently there are no real rules around timekeeping.
I woukd love to talk to a PL ref and find out how they manage time. The ‘added time’ is utterly counter intuitive to me. When Irefereed I never added any time on, or even kept track of it. I stopped my watch if needed, restarted it when play started and blew on 90 minutes.


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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Nameless » 28 Dec 2022 12:27

tmesis
JedMaxwell I still think they should have a game clock managed by the ref/fourth official. It can be connected to a digital clock at either end of the ground, available for all to see, and also connected to the other officials' watches for continuity and back up.

Therefore, no added time, and you get a guaranteed 60 or 70 minutes of play time depending on what they decide is the better length. Of course players will still take time to manage the game and slow down the tempo when they're ahead like we see now, but it won't cause any time to be lost from the clock. I imagine if they really take the mick there can be provision for time wasting bookings.

I've not really thought out the cons of this so happy for others to poo-poo it.

I would love to see an independent time-keeper, even if they add time on as they do now.

It would give the ref one less thing he has to concentrate on, but also it would mean the game ends when the time is actually up, rather than them blowing at the first non-controversial passage of play after the indicated time has elapsed, as they clearly do now.


You are suggesting introducing absolute and unnecessary chaos into the game ? The current way of ending the game makes absolute sense !

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by tmesis » 28 Dec 2022 12:30

Nameless
tmesis
JedMaxwell I still think they should have a game clock managed by the ref/fourth official. It can be connected to a digital clock at either end of the ground, available for all to see, and also connected to the other officials' watches for continuity and back up.

Therefore, no added time, and you get a guaranteed 60 or 70 minutes of play time depending on what they decide is the better length. Of course players will still take time to manage the game and slow down the tempo when they're ahead like we see now, but it won't cause any time to be lost from the clock. I imagine if they really take the mick there can be provision for time wasting bookings.

I've not really thought out the cons of this so happy for others to poo-poo it.

I would love to see an independent time-keeper, even if they add time on as they do now.

It would give the ref one less thing he has to concentrate on, but also it would mean the game ends when the time is actually up, rather than them blowing at the first non-controversial passage of play after the indicated time has elapsed, as they clearly do now.


You are suggesting introducing absolute and unnecessary chaos into the game ? The current way of ending the game makes absolute sense !

In all other sports that end with a clock counting down (even if not visible in the stadium) the games ends when the clock hits zero, and nobody complains at all

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Nameless » 28 Dec 2022 12:35

tmesis
Nameless
tmesis I would love to see an independent time-keeper, even if they add time on as they do now.

It would give the ref one less thing he has to concentrate on, but also it would mean the game ends when the time is actually up, rather than them blowing at the first non-controversial passage of play after the indicated time has elapsed, as they clearly do now.


You are suggesting introducing absolute and unnecessary chaos into the game ? The current way of ending the game makes absolute sense !

In all other sports that end with a clock counting down (even if not visible in the stadium) the games ends when the clock hits zero, and nobody complains at all


Rugby doesn’t end when the clock hits zero…..
If a game of football ended as a shot was on it’s way into an open goal there woukd be chaos .
It’s also unnecessary as football isn’t timed to the second, end play at a neutral point makes absolute sense.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by tmesis » 28 Dec 2022 13:22

Nameless
tmesis
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You are suggesting introducing absolute and unnecessary chaos into the game ? The current way of ending the game makes absolute sense !

In all other sports that end with a clock counting down (even if not visible in the stadium) the games ends when the clock hits zero, and nobody complains at all


Rugby doesn’t end when the clock hits zero…..
If a game of football ended as a shot was on it’s way into an open goal there woukd be chaos .
It’s also unnecessary as football isn’t timed to the second, end play at a neutral point makes absolute sense.

There are numerous sports played which a clock counting down to zero (Basketball, Ice Hockey, Rugby League, Aussie Rules...) and when it gets to zero there is a buzzer/siren/hooter and the game ends at that time, unless a shot is already being taken.

Not a single one of them has any kind of controversy or chaos around a scoring shot not counting if it is after the siren.

You are simply making an assumption which ignores all the evidence that your assumption is incorrect.

At the moment it's only "non-controversial" because refs keep the timekeeping secret. If refs admitted teams were scoring goals many seconds after the game was supposed to have ended, there really would be chaos.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by RoyalBlue » 28 Dec 2022 15:33

Nameless
tmesis
Nameless
You are suggesting introducing absolute and unnecessary chaos into the game ? The current way of ending the game makes absolute sense !

In all other sports that end with a clock counting down (even if not visible in the stadium) the games ends when the clock hits zero, and nobody complains at all


Rugby doesn’t end when the clock hits zero…..
If a game of football ended as a shot was on it’s way into an open goal there woukd be chaos .
It’s also unnecessary as football isn’t timed to the second, end play at a neutral point makes absolute sense.


Up until this year, US College Soccer (as opposed to their US Football) used a visible countdown clock. The ref clearly indicates when he/she wants the clock stopped and then restarted (injuries, yellow and red cards and instances where the ref feels a team is deliberately timewasting). IIRC in the last 5 (or maybe 10) minutes of a game it is mandated that the clock is stopped each time a substitution is made so as to stop a team trying to run the clock down that way. The stadium announcer counts down the last 10 seconds of each half so both players and spectators know exactly how long is left. On many occasions you see both teams pretty much stop playing in the last few seconds of the countdown.

In a recent game, I saw a winning goal in a play off match match hit as the countdown hit 3 seconds. Pandemonium ensued only for the stadium announcer to announce that there were two seconds left on the clock when the ball hit the net. The pitch had to be cleared of non-players and the game kicked off again with the losing team hitting a long shot towards goal.

I honestly don't know what happens if the a shot is hit and doesn't enter the goal until 'zero'. I guess it might be like basketball and it would count as long as it had been hit with time remaining. Unlike basketball, the likelihood of that actually happening is extremely small. I've not seen it happen in a good few years of watching quite a lot of college soccer.

Having said all this, I believe that the college countdown clock may have seen its last days as the NCAA are keen for their rules to become more aligned with the FIFA approach. In some ways I think that's a shame because personally I like the high transparency of the college timekeeping approach.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Sutekh » 28 Dec 2022 15:41

tmesis
Nameless
tmesis In all other sports that end with a clock counting down (even if not visible in the stadium) the games ends when the clock hits zero, and nobody complains at all


Rugby doesn’t end when the clock hits zero…..
If a game of football ended as a shot was on it’s way into an open goal there woukd be chaos .
It’s also unnecessary as football isn’t timed to the second, end play at a neutral point makes absolute sense.

There are numerous sports played which a clock counting down to zero (Basketball, Ice Hockey, Rugby League, Aussie Rules...) and when it gets to zero there is a buzzer/siren/hooter and the game ends at that time, unless a shot is already being taken.

Not a single one of them has any kind of controversy or chaos around a scoring shot not counting if it is after the siren.

You are simply making an assumption which ignores all the evidence that your assumption is incorrect.

At the moment it's only "non-controversial" because refs keep the timekeeping secret. If refs admitted teams were scoring goals many seconds after the game was supposed to have ended, there really would be chaos.


Time keeping should be the responsibility of the 4th official who, as a qualified referee themself, would be able to get on with that without worrying about the “minutiae” of refereeing the actual game. He then simply advises the actual game referee when to blow for time.

And I’ve always been in favour of it being clearly understood by everyone that aside from a penalty decision, time is up when time is up irrespective of what the players are doing or where the ball is at that time. Sadly though that will never happen as it’s so much embedded in the game ethos that you can’t blow for time if a team is lining up shot/taking a free kick or corner etc.

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Re: Opposition fans back from the game

by Snowflake Royal » 28 Dec 2022 15:46

A set timer that pauses as soon as the ball is out of play is fine by me. And I really don't see any problems with shots going in after the timer goes off. Sorry, too late. Might be some brief shenanigans early on, but people would get used to it quickly and it would be fair and transparent for everyone.

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