The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Jun 2019 11:25

Sutekh
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Snowflake Royal Was a home game. We conceded a last minute equaliser or loser.... but that was a sub appearance rather than full debut.


Yeah, was Preston (H), came on at half time and played very well. Think he would have kicked on had McDermott stayed but we'll never know


Personally think the club would have been in a stronger position now if Brian had stayed (either time) but as you say we’ll never know.

Not convinced by the first time, second time absolutely.

First on the basis that McDermott seemed to have lost the confidence of a lot of the squad, and on top of that Zingaravich was too hands on and totally screwed us financially. So I think we'd have really struggled no matter who was in charge once that all came to a head and boiled over.

We were mismanaged off the field prior to McDermott going, we were only really mismanaged on the field from Clarke's time on.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by SCIAG » 08 Jun 2019 11:40

Very very hard to imagine that McDermott would have done as good a job as Stam.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Jun 2019 17:36

Only if you ignore Stam's second season.

Easily conceivable that he could have take us to 12th and 8th.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by muirinho » 09 Jun 2019 19:48

SCIAG Loader and Barrett have been called up by England U20 and Ireland U21 respectively so we have three players at the Toulon tournament. Josh Sims is also playing for England and so are a few of the young players we've been linked to on loan. Dwight McNeil looks like the star man.


Barrett got 67 minutes in today's game against Bahrain, and although he didn't score, got a few decent mentions in the match report.

https://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/report- ... ls-secured

Ireland U21s now through to the semifinals. Their reward is a match up with Brazil, who have scored 13 and not conceded any as yet.
The other semi-final is Mexico and Japan.

France play Portugal in a 5th place play off, England play Guatemala for 9th

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Sutekh » 10 Jun 2019 10:12

muirinho England play Guatemala for 9th


:shock: :lol:

Looking forward to the battle for 31st at the world cup in Qatar.


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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by SCIAG » 10 Jun 2019 23:06

Snowflake Royal Only if you ignore Stam's second season.

Easily conceivable that he could have take us to 12th and 8th.

Stam's second season was bad largely due to some of our worst recruitment since the Burns era. Bod was our only decent striker, Beerens and Al-Habsi got homesick, at least three players had career-changing injuries, and we were bogged down with Aluko and Edwards as well as having to play the likes of Pelle Clement and Sam Smith.

McDermott did a lot of good work here but he never had to pick Tomas Cywka 28 times.
I guess I can imagine McDermott deciding to keep Meite and Novakovich at the club and having plenty of striking options... but then he wouldn't have been able to recruit half the (useful) players Stam recruited. Certainly not Joey or Beerens, probably not Moore or Swift.

If we had signed Baker and Oliveira (both of whom Stam wanted) instead of Edwards and Aluko, Stam would have got us to comfortable mid-table or better imo.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by URZZZZ » 11 Jun 2019 00:33

SCIAG
Snowflake Royal Only if you ignore Stam's second season.

Easily conceivable that he could have take us to 12th and 8th.

Stam's second season was bad largely due to some of our worst recruitment since the Burns era. Bod was our only decent striker, Beerens and Al-Habsi got homesick, at least three players had career-changing injuries, and we were bogged down with Aluko and Edwards as well as having to play the likes of Pelle Clement and Sam Smith.

McDermott did a lot of good work here but he never had to pick Tomas Cywka 28 times.
I guess I can imagine McDermott deciding to keep Meite and Novakovich at the club and having plenty of striking options... but then he wouldn't have been able to recruit half the (useful) players Stam recruited. Certainly not Joey or Beerens, probably not Moore or Swift.

If we had signed Baker and Oliveira (both of whom Stam wanted) instead of Edwards and Aluko, Stam would have got us to comfortable mid-table or better imo.


Obviously based off estimations but think we'd have a team similar to this had McDermott stayed:

Al Habsi Gunter McShane Cooper Obita McCleary Evans Williams New Signing Kermorgant Rakels
Difficult to say, but I don't think it would have looked *too dissimilar to Stam's with Al Habsi, Gunter, Obita, McShane, Evans, Williams, McCleary and Yann all regulars. Obviously playing style etc would be different but I think he would have recruited in his own different way, your lower league punts

And I think McDermott would rather have played Cywka 28 times than Piazon :wink:

As said above, think we'd have meandered around mid table first season, then pushing up top 6 the next couple. Obviously these predictions are based off estimations and no real logic

Don't agree with the last point either - Baker didn't exactly excel at Boro that season - maybe that a kick up the arse for him after his decent spell at Vitesse? Same with Nelson at Norwich

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by SCIAG » 11 Jun 2019 08:39

URZZZZ
Obviously based off estimations but think we'd have a team similar to this had McDermott stayed:

Al Habsi Gunter McShane Cooper Obita McCleary Evans Williams New Signing Kermorgant Rakels
Difficult to say, but I don't think it would have looked *too dissimilar to Stam's with Al Habsi, Gunter, Obita, McShane, Evans, Williams, McCleary and Yann all regulars.

Cooper was a liability who would have been replaced, probably with Gravenberch. Rakels got injured straight away and has never recovered. Samuel or Mendes would have played instead. Does a midfield two of Evans and Williams really fill you with confidence?

Imagine McDermott's promotion winning side lost Gorkss, Leigertwood, Karacan, and McAnuff. Taking out four key players is a huge change - doesn't matter if you keep the other seven.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Ranty McRantface » 11 Jun 2019 10:01

SCIAG
URZZZZ
Obviously based off estimations but think we'd have a team similar to this had McDermott stayed:

Al Habsi Gunter McShane Cooper Obita McCleary Evans Williams New Signing Kermorgant Rakels
Difficult to say, but I don't think it would have looked *too dissimilar to Stam's with Al Habsi, Gunter, Obita, McShane, Evans, Williams, McCleary and Yann all regulars.

Cooper was a liability who would have been replaced, probably with Gravenberch. Rakels got injured straight away and has never recovered. Samuel or Mendes would have played instead. Does a midfield two of Evans and Williams really fill you with confidence?

Imagine McDermott's promotion winning side lost Gorkss, Leigertwood, Karacan, and McAnuff. Taking out four key players is a huge change - doesn't matter if you keep the other seven.



Sentiment aside, I'm not really sure if McDermott would have done any better at all tbh. Whenever I think about his achievements here it's obvious that he worked with players who he knew of, were hard working to make up for technical ability and he favoured experience. There was never really any tactical genius about him and he was really old skool but had great man management skills and had huge backing by the fans.

When he came back here for his second stint he didn't have all of those sort of players and it just seemed like he didn't know what to do. I also read an interview with one of the Thais who is at Oxford that talked about the reasons behind McDs departure again. He made it clear that quite a few of the players had no respect/confidence in him. You also have to ask yourself the obvious. If he is a good manager where is he now? There are nearly 70 clubs in the football league (exc Prem obviously) and he's a scout. There is none of this waiting for the right club excuses here. Do you think he can adapt his playing style to way most teams play now? Not just in this league but even in League 1 teams are knocking it about on the deck, albeit not as well!

For me he's been a great servant and his man management skills got us promoted with a bunch of hard working players who knew him, respected him and went the extra mile. A bit like Burnley but they have a bit more quality. Whether he has anything else and can evolve or adapt to the increased number of opposing teams who are in no doubt better than when he was last here, I really don't think he has the skills or desire for it.

This opinion may not go down well with a lot of you but I am just trying to view the bigger picture and cast aside any sentiment I have for the bald hero Sir B McD.


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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by maffff » 11 Jun 2019 11:09

A bit of a tangent, but Sim from The Tilehurst End and I have compiled a piece on players that passed through our academy, didn't make a first team appearance and went on to forge careers somewhere else (or still have the opportunity to). This series shows where some are plying their trade these days / were as of last season (there have been a couple of updates in the last week or so which aren't reflected:

Premier League: https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... gue-royals
Championship: https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... hip-royals
League One: https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... one-royals
League Two: https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... two-royals
Non league: https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... gue-royals
Scotland and Ireland: https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... and-royals
International: https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... nal-royals

I started this following the discussion here about 'what do we class as success', so it's been a fair while in the making....

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Hound » 11 Jun 2019 12:02

yes, thanks - read through those as they have gone up. nice work

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by Victor Meldrew » 11 Jun 2019 12:28

maffff A bit of a tangent, but Sim from The Tilehurst End and I have compiled a piece on players that passed through our academy, didn't make a first team appearance and went on to forge careers somewhere else (or still have the opportunity to). This series shows where some are plying their trade these days / were as of last season (there have been a couple of updates in the last week or so which aren't reflected:

Premier League: https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... gue-royals
Championship: https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... hip-royals
League One: https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... one-royals
League Two: https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... two-royals
Non league: https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... gue-royals
Scotland and Ireland: https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... and-royals
International: https://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/20 ... nal-royals

I started this following the discussion here about 'what do we class as success', so it's been a fair while in the making....


Good stuff mafff.
Nothing to conclude other than if players make it to an Academy level at a football club, even if they don't make it there, can make a living elsewhere in the game especially in England where money can be earned at so many levels further down the ladder.

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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by SCIAG » 11 Jun 2019 13:53

Very interesting read Maff- reminded me of a lot of players I had wiped from my memory.

A few who I didn't notice you covering:

Ji was joined on that two-year scholarship (not a trial) by Nam Tae-Hee and Kim Won-Sik. Nam has 44 caps for South Korea and currently plays for Al-Sadd in Qatar. Kim plays for FC Seoul.

Viktor Illagusson is also playing in Iceland, for Kordrengir.

Can't think of anyone else interesting- there are a few more in the National League (eg Frankie Raymond at Bromley) but listing all of them would make the article much much longer.


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Re: The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2015//16

by maffff » 11 Jun 2019 19:34

SCIAG Very interesting read Maff- reminded me of a lot of players I had wiped from my memory.

A few who I didn't notice you covering:

Ji was joined on that two-year scholarship (not a trial) by Nam Tae-Hee and Kim Won-Sik. Nam has 44 caps for South Korea and currently plays for Al-Sadd in Qatar. Kim plays for FC Seoul.

Viktor Illagusson is also playing in Iceland, for Kordrengir.

Can't think of anyone else interesting- there are a few more in the National League (eg Frankie Raymond at Bromley) but listing all of them would make the article much much longer.


Few shouts there, someone else mentioned Nam but I couldn't remember Won-Sik for the life of me. Also forgot completely about Ilugason. There are definitely holes in it, but some bits interested me. I was at one point going to try to find every academy team since Haddow - it fast became unmanageable.

Had Raymond down, but non league quickly filled up with less interesting ones, that was a trim totally take it!

Some I'd completely forgotten about. Total trip down memory lane

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