Rival Watch

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3points
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Re: Rival Watch

by 3points » 03 Nov 2022 12:53

Not sure West Brom will be far off the bottom three this season. Certainly a lot of their fans think they are in a relegation battle

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Re: Rival Watch

by Hendo » 03 Nov 2022 13:01

They certainly need to start turning round some performances and results and pretty sharpish.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Stranded » 03 Nov 2022 13:17

YorkshireRoyal99
LUX Ok, Luxwatch for the three teams I think we need to lose whenever possible:

Huddersfield
Wigan
Hull

Hope this post ages well.


Yep, I think they seem to be the 3 at the moment. Not convinced by Bristol City, Rotherham or Blackpool but as mentioned, they seem to be able to get a decent result here and there.

Outsiders? Stoke and Cardiff? Probably not going to go down but will probably end up lower mid table by the looks of it.


Stoke's win last night was pretty big - if the result had gone the other way they'd be in the bottom 3 right now. Cardiff still under a caretaker manager.

Everyone from Swansea down could be considered an outsider at the moment, just needs a run of 7 or 8 games of poor form and you are in trouble. 3 pts between 14th and 22nd is crazy tight.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Franchise FC » 03 Nov 2022 14:53

I still think I'd take 19th for us now.
The concertina effect could drag a lot of teams in that don't look like it at the moment, and if we lose a couple* in January that could be a big issue

* Players, not matches (although that wouldn't be great either)

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Re: Rival Watch

by Hound » 03 Nov 2022 15:02

It’s always squad depth and injuries which is my concern this year

If we basically had fit who we have now for the remainder of the season (obvs with the odd missed game) and added Sarr and Hutch back into the mix, we can look up more than down

If we start to lose key men for long periods (ie Ince, Holmes, Yiadom) then could see us still slipping into trouble


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Re: Rival Watch

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 03 Nov 2022 15:31

Yeah that's true re injury situation although a lot of clubs could probably say the same, probably some of the so called "better" teams in the league. Swansea lose the likes of Piroe for long periods of time and they'll struggle, QPR lose Dykes, the LWB's name who escapes me and Chair and they'll struggle for form etc.

I think we've got enough, it's tight and a bad spell, which is entirely possible, could see us slip into real trouble but there are a lot of teams sandwiched together at the moment and teams are taking points off each other every game, so I think if we can keep plugging along with a couple of wins per 6 games (or tallies to that effect), then we will be fine. The strong start to the season has given us a decent buffer.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Dirk Gently » 03 Nov 2022 15:39

26 points from 18 games is a much better than expected return.

They say 50 points will see you safe, so 24 points from 28 games really ought to be achievable - we could safely stay up without having to win another match.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Hendo » 03 Nov 2022 15:40

Dirk Gently 26 points from 18 games is a much better than expected return.

They say 50 points will see you safe, so 24 points from 28 games really ought to be achievable - we could safely stay up without having to win another match.


Think it might be 50+, maybe 55 this year. Going to be one of those years that the gap between the last play off place and the highest relegation place is a small margin, imo.

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Re: Rival Watch

by URZZZZ » 03 Nov 2022 15:46

Franchise FC I still think I'd take 19th for us now.
The concertina effect could drag a lot of teams in that don't look like it at the moment, and if we lose a couple* in January that could be a big issue

* Players, not matches (although that wouldn't be great either)


Personally think there’s no reason why we couldn’t aim for the top half

Don’t think there’s many better options in the Championship for the strikers (collective options, not individual). Joao and Meite are good Championship forwards, if not slightly erratic (to which Carroll and Long help on that side of the game). Plenty of options for the defence (including Moore and Dann). Midfield is OK too

As said elsewhere, it’s about keeping players fit (granted, it’s a big if). But if we do get to the stage to everyone being fit, there’ll be 4/5 first team players who won’t be making the 18 which isn’t a bad position to be in


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Re: Rival Watch

by Stranded » 03 Nov 2022 16:02

I hope fitness may improve after this WC break. We have essentially spent the last couple of years working (probably overworking) small squads through seasons that have been compressed due to COVID and the WC - shorter summer breaks etc - so it is arguable that after Xmas is the first run we have where the wear and tear on players may be less as we actually have options and in most weeks are only playing Saturdays.

Naturally, if 2 or 3 move on in Jan that we can't replace then that goes out of the window.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Hound » 03 Nov 2022 16:18

YorkshireRoyal99 Yeah that's true re injury situation although a lot of clubs could probably say the same, probably some of the so called "better" teams in the league. Swansea lose the likes of Piroe for long periods of time and they'll struggle, QPR lose Dykes, the LWB's name who escapes me and Chair and they'll struggle for form etc.

I think we've got enough, it's tight and a bad spell, which is entirely possible, could see us slip into real trouble but there are a lot of teams sandwiched together at the moment and teams are taking points off each other every game, so I think if we can keep plugging along with a couple of wins per 6 games (or tallies to that effect), then we will be fine. The strong start to the season has given us a decent buffer.


It is true for the other clubs of course, but they’d probably have a bit more flexibility to do something about it - at least until the end of Jan

We do seem to be improving a little on the injury side - prob kiss of death there - but other than the CBs we’re not in bad shape

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Re: Rival Watch

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 03 Nov 2022 16:34

Yeah, the injury situation is still a far cry from what it was last season, CB's is a bit annoying that we've got a few in that area but we've managed everywhere else really as well.

Echoing most other, it's about keeping 20 or so players fit for as much of the season as possible. 4 games in 11 days isn't helpful alongside what we've had recently, but we will find a way to get by. If we can take say 4 points from the last couple of games up until the WC break and avoiding any "serious" (couple of weeks+) injuries by the time the WC break happens, then I don't see why we can't get players rested up, back on the training field and have players returning as well and then hopefully come the Xmas period we could have a strong run of things.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Nameless » 03 Nov 2022 17:32

Stranded I hope fitness may improve after this WC break. We have essentially spent the last couple of years working (probably overworking) small squads through seasons that have been compressed due to COVID and the WC - shorter summer breaks etc - so it is arguable that after Xmas is the first run we have where the wear and tear on players may be less as we actually have options and in most weeks are only playing Saturdays.

Naturally, if 2 or 3 move on in Jan that we can't replace then that goes out of the window.


Realistically it’s hard to see 2 or 3 leaving. Beyond Nesta and possibly Mbengwe who are likely to be offered deals ? And if one of them goes we can up the pay for the other one ! We’ll also have Sarr and Moore back which will be like 2 new players and I can see Dann retiring which would free up a squad place.


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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Nov 2022 17:45

Hound It’s always squad depth and injuries which is my concern this year

If we basically had fit who we have now for the remainder of the season (obvs with the odd missed game) and added Sarr and Hutch back into the mix, we can look up more than down

If we start to lose key men for long periods (ie Ince, Holmes, Yiadom) then could see us still slipping into trouble

Beyond player fitness, a big concern for me is that despite on the face of it having four good strikers, we can't put together a convincing attacking game plan or get any of them looking like they'll score regularly. Partly because most out games we barely have any periods of possession, let alone sustained attacking possession in the final third.

We're not going to score great breakaway goals against the run of play every game.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Mid Sussex Royal » 03 Nov 2022 18:41

Snowflake Royal
Hound It’s always squad depth and injuries which is my concern this year

If we basically had fit who we have now for the remainder of the season (obvs with the odd missed game) and added Sarr and Hutch back into the mix, we can look up more than down

If we start to lose key men for long periods (ie Ince, Holmes, Yiadom) then could see us still slipping into trouble

Beyond player fitness, a big concern for me is that despite on the face of it having four good strikers, we can't put together a convincing attacking game plan or get any of them looking like they'll score regularly. Partly because most out games we barely have any periods of possession, let alone sustained attacking possession in the final third.

We're not going to score great breakaway goals against the run of play every game.


We don't. That has just happened against a few top sides away where we've drawn sides on to us and hit them on teh break..

Do you suggest then we try and out pass the likes of Burnley, Swansea and QPR on their own ground?

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Nov 2022 23:04

Mid Sussex Royal
Snowflake Royal
Hound It’s always squad depth and injuries which is my concern this year

If we basically had fit who we have now for the remainder of the season (obvs with the odd missed game) and added Sarr and Hutch back into the mix, we can look up more than down

If we start to lose key men for long periods (ie Ince, Holmes, Yiadom) then could see us still slipping into trouble

Beyond player fitness, a big concern for me is that despite on the face of it having four good strikers, we can't put together a convincing attacking game plan or get any of them looking like they'll score regularly. Partly because most out games we barely have any periods of possession, let alone sustained attacking possession in the final third.

We're not going to score great breakaway goals against the run of play every game.


We don't. That has just happened against a few top sides away where we've drawn sides on to us and hit them on teh break..

Do you suggest then we try and out pass the likes of Burnley, Swansea and QPR on their own ground?

There's a middle ground between pass pass pass and sit back and break.

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Re: Rival Watch

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 04 Nov 2022 09:01

Snowflake Royal
Hound It’s always squad depth and injuries which is my concern this year

If we basically had fit who we have now for the remainder of the season (obvs with the odd missed game) and added Sarr and Hutch back into the mix, we can look up more than down

If we start to lose key men for long periods (ie Ince, Holmes, Yiadom) then could see us still slipping into trouble

Beyond player fitness, a big concern for me is that despite on the face of it having four good strikers, we can't put together a convincing attacking game plan or get any of them looking like they'll score regularly. Partly because most out games we barely have any periods of possession, let alone sustained attacking possession in the final third.

We're not going to score great breakaway goals against the run of play every game.


But what are our forwards suited to though? Joao might be more suited to a possession-based game where we can play through him but Carroll thrives off longer passes, Meite's hold up play hasn't always been the best but is a physical presence and could probably cope with either whereas Long may favour balls he can hunt down, both Meite and Long are best running in behind the defence.

I think the bigger issue is we've struggled to maintain a regular partnership up top, somewhat down to injuries, other times rotation. There does need to a trade-off, obviously you can't have the same pair playing 90 minutes all the time, but we've struggled for a consistent combination that has really clicked. To be honest, based on what we've seen at the moment, Joao has 3 (0.34 goals per 90), Carroll has 2 (0.45 goals per 90), Meite has 2 (0.38 goals per 90) and Long has 1 (0.19 goals per 90).

To be honest, I don't think that looks typically bad when we have 4 good striking options that we can bring in as and when the situation needs. I'd personally rather have 4 strikers that can score rather than being solely reliant on just a couple of players (Joao and Swift last season). Ince is looking a good bet for 10 goals this season and I don't doubt between all of our CB's, they will chip in with double figures worth of goals. Hendrick, Fornah, Loum might get the odd couple. Joao and Meite I'd be anticipating to hit double figures (fitness/selection dependent), Carroll depends on how long we keep him for and if we can keep Long fit he should be able to get around 6-8 this season which will all help.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Nov 2022 09:18

Carroll thrives off good early crosses into the box, and he needs players around him for any balls up to his head, not maybe 1 player within 20 yards.

Joao needs players around him, balls to feet or chest and possession in the final third.

Meite needs good balls in behind to chase and headers to flick on to players around him.

Etc etc. None of this works with 35% possession and 8 players around our box.

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Re: Rival Watch

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 04 Nov 2022 10:03

Snowflake Royal Carroll thrives off good early crosses into the box, and he needs players around him for any balls up to his head, not maybe 1 player within 20 yards.

Joao needs players around him, balls to feet or chest and possession in the final third.

Meite needs good balls in behind to chase and headers to flick on to players around him.

Etc etc. None of this works with 35% possession and 8 players around our box.


But you don't need 60%+ possession for that to work either, so I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say, "none of this works". The classic saying is, it's not about how much possession you have but what you do with it. From what I've seen this season, in most games this season we've been relatively effective with our style of play and many managers have praised how we are difficult to play against, not just because of our defensive shape but because of our threat going forward as well. Look at Tuesday, didn't exactly play with the ball/on the front foot but managed 17 (correct if wrong) shots on goal and were a threat throughout, just our quality let us down.

For the record, I do actually agree with you, I'd prefer to play with the ball and on the front foot with players high up the pitch, but I don't think the club view that as where we are at the moment. We are very much considered an "underdog" in this league by the club at the moment, so I can understand why we play like we do, and we've played what? 40% of the season so far-ish? We are 11th, with a good record and we've been good in most games so far this season and surpassed expectations so far, so I think it's tough to complain.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Nov 2022 10:50

YorkshireRoyal99
Snowflake Royal Carroll thrives off good early crosses into the box, and he needs players around him for any balls up to his head, not maybe 1 player within 20 yards.

Joao needs players around him, balls to feet or chest and possession in the final third.

Meite needs good balls in behind to chase and headers to flick on to players around him.

Etc etc. None of this works with 35% possession and 8 players around our box.


But you don't need 60%+ possession for that to work either, so I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say, "none of this works". The classic saying is, it's not about how much possession you have but what you do with it. From what I've seen this season, in most games this season we've been relatively effective with our style of play and many managers have praised how we are difficult to play against, not just because of our defensive shape but because of our threat going forward as well. Look at Tuesday, didn't exactly play with the ball/on the front foot but managed 17 (correct if wrong) shots on goal and were a threat throughout, just our quality let us down.

For the record, I do actually agree with you, I'd prefer to play with the ball and on the front foot with players high up the pitch, but I don't think the club view that as where we are at the moment. We are very much considered an "underdog" in this league by the club at the moment, so I can understand why we play like we do, and we've played what? 40% of the season so far-ish? We are 11th, with a good record and we've been good in most games so far this season and surpassed expectations so far, so I think it's tough to complain.

Good luck finding anywhere I've said we should have 60% possession.

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