Stams philosophy

paddy20
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Stams philosophy

by paddy20 » 27 Feb 2017 09:08

Clearly Stam has made big changes from last season. He obviously feels that the correct way forward is to put the system first and then get the players to fit it. Other managers work on the premise that you look at your players and play a system that best suits them.
I think for us it has worked up to a point. To continue this philosophy Stam will need a lot of money to get in the correct type of players.

This could happen if the Chinese or someone takes over with plenty of cash. If not I think it is destined to fail as I feel we only have about half a team that can take it forward.

Such players need to be comfortable on the ball, patient, spot openings early and have a change of pace.

I think the following players are the only ones that suit this system;

Moore, McShane, Blackett, Kelly, McCleary, Berens, Evans, Watson and Swift when he regains his form. That leaves a lot of new signings to make.

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Re: Stams philosophy

by Ian Royal » 27 Feb 2017 10:22

Disagree entirely. We're the odd player from something special. The groundwork has been laid and we need relatively little in personnel changes.

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Re: Stams philosophy

by Norfolk Royal » 27 Feb 2017 10:56

More Descartes than Plato then?

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Re: Stams philosophy

by Gunny Fishcake » 27 Feb 2017 11:04

Don't disagree with the principal , but I think Jaap won't be here long enough to see through a long term plan . I'd be amazed if he's our manager all next season. I'd add that's not through a sacking , just on his way up to where ever he's going.

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Re: Stams philosophy

by LoyalRoyal22 » 27 Feb 2017 11:45

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
The philosophy is literally the whole reason we are in the top 6. The team are massively over-achieving, completely because of the way that Jaap has the team set up.


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Re: Stams philosophy

by SCIAG » 27 Feb 2017 12:28

paddy20 Clearly Stam has made big changes from last season.

Is it that clear? I think the main difference is that Stam's tried a back three on occasion, but stylistically we've broadly played the same way since we got relegated.

I feel we only have about half a team that can take it forward.

Such players need to be comfortable on the ball, patient, spot openings early and have a change of pace.

I think the following players are the only ones that suit this system;

Moore, McShane, Blackett, Kelly, McCleary, Berens, Evans, Watson and Swift when he regains his form. That leaves a lot of new signings to make.

Well for starters, you just listed nine players, which is a lot more than half a team!

I find it strange that you'd include McShane in that list. The three "weak points", at least in terms of style, are Al-Habsi, McShane, and Williams. They bring other qualities which balance that out to an extent (we'll struggle to get a better goalkeeper than Al-Habsi), but they're fairly uncomfortable on the ball and don't have much vision. All the other senior players are either fine or unknowns (the new signings). Guess you could argue that Gunter's only "good enough" but meh, he's not holding us back from promotion. While the likes of Obita and Joey might not be good enough players, they'e completely suited to our style of play.

Our academy has been using this sort of set up for the best part of a decade so they should almost all be comfortable with it.

If we narrowly miss out on promotion, then this summer's priorities should be a long-term replacement for Kermorgant, an upgrade on Williams, and a better footballing version of McShane. Could also maybe do with signing an excellent left back if one becomes available, and maybe a third striker. We certainly don't need yet another summer in which we sign a whole new team, unless we get promoted.

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Re: Stams philosophy

by ILoveMoonPig » 27 Feb 2017 13:04

I would argue that what we need is just one solid, strong high-stamina defensive midfielder. Williams can play that role, but often gets sucked too far forwards and when Evans plays it, he gets sucked too far back into defence. I can't help but get the feeling that with more off-the-ball movement in midfield/defensive midfield, we wouldn't be left passing it across the back line for 50 minutes each game, waiting for some space to open up. We just need someone in front of the back 4 who can pretty much continuously battle to create space for us to move forwards.

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Re: Stams philosophy

by Ian Royal » 27 Feb 2017 14:05

ILoveMoonPig I would argue that what we need is just one solid, strong high-stamina defensive midfielder. Williams can play that role, but often gets sucked too far forwards and when Evans plays it, he gets sucked too far back into defence. I can't help but get the feeling that with more off-the-ball movement in midfield/defensive midfield, we wouldn't be left passing it across the back line for 50 minutes each game, waiting for some space to open up. We just need someone in front of the back 4 who can pretty much continuously battle to create space for us to move forwards.

I'm not convinced Evans gets sucked deep, I've seen games where he hasn't been. I think it's actually direction from the manager because of the fad of pushing fullbacks up to the wings and splitting your centrebacks into fullback positions.

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Re: Stams philosophy

by CountryRoyal » 27 Feb 2017 14:58

ILoveMoonPig I would argue that what we need is just one solid, strong high-stamina defensive midfielder. Williams can play that role, but often gets sucked too far forwards and when Evans plays it, he gets sucked too far back into defence. I can't help but get the feeling that with more off-the-ball movement in midfield/defensive midfield, we wouldn't be left passing it across the back line for 50 minutes each game, waiting for some space to open up. We just need someone in front of the back 4 who can pretty much continuously battle to create space for us to move forwards.


That South African guy at Ajax was one of Stam's first targets mooted and he definitely would have fit the bill. Perhaps it's an area he will make a priority in the summer? Think GK is probably the first, don't get me wrong, I like Al-Habsi, but he's just not cut out for our style of play and his ability on the ball or lack thereof puts the the whole team under pressure.


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Re: Stams philosophy

by paddy20 » 27 Feb 2017 16:14

Gunny Fishcake Don't disagree with the principal , but I think Jaap won't be here long enough to see through a long term plan . I'd be amazed if he's our manager all next season. I'd add that's not through a sacking , just on his way up to where ever he's going.


Agree with that

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Re: Stams philosophy

by Sutekh » 27 Feb 2017 16:17

CountryRoyal
ILoveMoonPig I would argue that what we need is just one solid, strong high-stamina defensive midfielder. Williams can play that role, but often gets sucked too far forwards and when Evans plays it, he gets sucked too far back into defence. I can't help but get the feeling that with more off-the-ball movement in midfield/defensive midfield, we wouldn't be left passing it across the back line for 50 minutes each game, waiting for some space to open up. We just need someone in front of the back 4 who can pretty much continuously battle to create space for us to move forwards.


That South African guy at Ajax was one of Stam's first targets mooted and he definitely would have fit the bill. Perhaps it's an area he will make a priority in the summer? Think GK is probably the first, don't get me wrong, I like Al-Habsi, but he's just not cut out for our style of play and his ability on the ball or lack thereof puts the the whole team under pressure.


Yes we have barely any midfielders, in fact it's so bad Stam's had to bring in non-midfielders (Grabban and Reece) to try and provide some options there

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Re: Stams philosophy

by paddy20 » 27 Feb 2017 16:21

SCIAG
paddy20 Clearly Stam has made big changes from last season.

Is it that clear? I think the main difference is that Stam's tried a back three on occasion, but stylistically we've broadly played the same way since we got relegated.

I feel we only have about half a team that can take it forward.

Such players need to be comfortable on the ball, patient, spot openings early and have a change of pace.

I think the following players are the only ones that suit this system;

Moore, McShane, Blackett, Kelly, McCleary, Berens, Evans, Watson and Swift when he regains his form. That leaves a lot of new signings to make.

Well for starters, you just listed nine players, which is a lot more than half a team!

I find it strange that you'd include McShane in that list. The three "weak points", at least in terms of style, are Al-Habsi, McShane, and Williams. They bring other qualities which balance that out to an extent (we'll struggle to get a better goalkeeper than Al-Habsi), but they're fairly uncomfortable on the ball and don't have much vision. All the other senior players are either fine or unknowns (the new signings). Guess you could argue that Gunter's only "good enough" but meh, he's not holding us back from promotion. While the likes of Obita and Joey might not be good enough players, they'e completely suited to our style of play.

Our academy has been using this sort of set up for the best part of a decade so they should almost all be comfortable with it.

If we narrowly miss out on promotion, then this summer's priorities should be a long-term replacement for Kermorgant, an upgrade on Williams, and a better footballing version of McShane. Could also maybe do with signing an excellent left back if one becomes available, and maybe a third striker. We certainly don't need yet another summer in which we sign a whole new team, unless we get promoted.


Sorry can't agree that we are broadly playing the same style since relegated. I don't think it could be more different. Also you need more than 11 men for a team. You need at least a squad size of 18 so would need more than one or two players. I do think MacShane is very comfortable on the ball and he rarely gives the ball away

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Re: Stams philosophy

by paddy20 » 27 Feb 2017 16:23

Should have included Quinn in good players for the system. Big miss IMO this year


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Re: Stams philosophy

by Forbury Lion » 27 Feb 2017 16:54

paddy20 He obviously feels that the correct way forward is to put the system first and then get the players to fit it. Other managers work on the premise that you look at your players and play a system that best suits them.

Most Reading managers have had little cash to play with so have had to find a system that fits the players, those who have tried to change the system to something along the lines of what Stam has done without the financial backing have failed because they were unable to get it to work and sign the right players. Brendan Rogers and Nigel Adkins being the two that spring to mind.

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Re: Stams philosophy

by paddy20 » 27 Feb 2017 17:48

Forbury Lion
paddy20 He obviously feels that the correct way forward is to put the system first and then get the players to fit it. Other managers work on the premise that you look at your players and play a system that best suits them.

Most Reading managers have had little cash to play with so have had to find a system that fits the players, those who have tried to change the system to something along the lines of what Stam has done without the financial backing have failed because they were unable to get it to work and sign the right players. Brendan Rogers and Nigel Adkins being the two that spring to mind.


Two very good examples. I think Stam is probably in need of a wealthy club to use his formula. Done so well so far and good luck to him if a big club comes in for him at the end of the season (presuming of course we don't make or win the play-offs!) I see Fulham are shorter odds than us now and if they win their game in hand are only 4 pts behind with a vastly superior GD

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Re: Stams philosophy

by Hound » 27 Feb 2017 18:14

To be honest the bookies have barely backed us all season - wouldn't take huge notice of that

I certainly don't think we are far away from being a fairly formidable squad. Certainly wouldn't want major surgery in the summer. Is say the majority of the squad can play the football Jaap wants, it's a case of having 1 or 2 top class additions (mainly in attack) to that I think.

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Re: Stams philosophy

by Ian Royal » 27 Feb 2017 18:39

I'd be happy and quietly confident of a good season seeing a matchday squad in August along these lines:

.............................Al-Habsi
..............McShane..Moore..Ilori
Watson..................Evans..............Obita
.......................Kelly.........Swift
.................Kermorgant...Meite

Jaakkola, Blackett, JVDB, Quinn, Beerens, Rakels, Harriott

Or

.........................Al-Habsi
..Watson....McShane..Moore....Obita
......................Kelly.....Evans
Harriott...............Swift................Beerens
............................Meite

Jaakkola, Ilori, JVDB, Quinn, Kermorgant, Harriott, Rakels

And that assumes Williams will go and someone buys McCleary. Not to mention ignores Samuel, Barrett, Dickie, Hyam, Gunter et al

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Re: Stams philosophy

by Top Flight » 27 Feb 2017 19:47

I think the team should be:

-----------------------------------Al Habsi-------------------------------------
Gunter-----------McShane--------------Moore------------------Obita
----------------------------------Evans/Joey-----------------------------------
------------------Kelly/Swift----------------Williams-----------------------
Mcleary---------------------Kermorgant-----------------------Beerens

I would go with this team for the time being. Until Tiago is back from injury. This team seems to be best balanced and the one that was winning. It means tough decisions have to be made. Stam has to choose between Kelly and Swift. He has to choose between Evans and Joey. I would go with Evans personally. He has to leave out Grabban, Mutch, Popa etc.

I have high hopes for Popa. I hope he can really challenge G-Mac and I can see him being dangerous for us on the right.
Since G-Mac is not at his top form right now, it might not be a bad time to give Popa his first start at home to Wolves on Saturday.

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Re: Stams philosophy

by Hound » 27 Feb 2017 20:16

Agree with pretty much everything in that post. Would consider Grabban for Yann though

Joey did an excellent job for us in midfield earlier in the season. I'd certainly not be unhappy to see him back in that Dm role (just not CB ever again)

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Re: Stams philosophy

by Lower West » 27 Feb 2017 21:46

paddy20 I think Stam is probably in need of a wealthy club to use his formula.


Stam's formula will work better with home grown talent. Rather than bought in stars. Go and watch the U23's. You'll see a mirror image formation of the first team. Stam has always said that he views the job as a long term project. Far easier to mould a Swift\Moore\Blackett\Evans than a Mutch or Grabbens.

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