CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

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West Stand Man
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Re: CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

by West Stand Man » 14 Aug 2017 17:39

MeMeMe
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MeMeMe True.... but Kelly is only 21 and shows much more in terms of presence, effort and overall ability.

:roll: Don't let the fact Kelly is 'one of our own' cloud your judgement. All 3 midfielders have shown that they have great potential, but to suggest Kelly is miles ahead of them is laughable.

To put it in perspective for you, Kelly has now equalled his goal tally in 21(9) Championship games last year. Or a goal every 1812 minutes. His presence contributed 5 assists in that time as well. He averaged a rating of 6.71 across the season. https://www.whoscored.com/Players/26947 ... Liam-Kelly

Swift played a total of 34(5) games last year, averaging a goal every 356 minutes, and contributing 4 assists. With an average rating of 6.84. Now I appreciate that this was his second season, and he is 5 months older than Kelly so here's his first full seasons stats from his time at Brentford; 23(4) appearances. A goal every 273 minutes, 4 assists and an average of 6.94. https://www.whoscored.com/Players/14910 ... John-Swift

Evans on paper performs the worst, but then he isn't an attacking midfielder so it would be expected he doesn't contribute as much going forward. Last year was his first full season, making 27(11) appearances, averaging a goal every 1284 minutes and contributing 2 assists. His rating over the season was 6.55. https://www.whoscored.com/Players/12129 ... orge-Evans

Kelly is 21, he turns 22 in November. Swift is 22 he turned 22 in June this year. Evans is 22 and turns 23 in December. There is less than a year separating the lads in age, yet Evans and Swift get so much stick and are expected to carry the team....


Stats and figures are one thing... overall performances and effort are another. I has been clear to me that Swift in particular looks jaded, his effort has been lacking. He has ability and that is clear to see, yet his application is poor. Evans less so, he demonstrates little to suggest he has anything to shine above others at this level. So..to put this into perspective for you.... stats and figures ,ay tell one story, but it's your overall input, effort, approach, skill and determination that will win though. Kelly is miles ahead in this respect.


I guess you really don't get how the statistics are built up then.

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LWJ
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Re: CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

by LWJ » 14 Aug 2017 18:21

MeMeMe
Stats and figures are one thing... overall performances and effort are another. I has been clear to me that Swift in particular looks jaded, his effort has been lacking. He has ability and that is clear to see, yet his application is poor. Evans less so, he demonstrates little to suggest he has anything to shine above others at this level. So..to put this into perspective for you.... stats and figures ,ay tell one story, but it's your overall input, effort, approach, skill and determination that will win though. Kelly is miles ahead in this respect.

Going to go out on a limb here and suggest you don't attend many games...

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Re: CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

by MeMeMe » 14 Aug 2017 18:30

LWJ
MeMeMe
Stats and figures are one thing... overall performances and effort are another. I has been clear to me that Swift in particular looks jaded, his effort has been lacking. He has ability and that is clear to see, yet his application is poor. Evans less so, he demonstrates little to suggest he has anything to shine above others at this level. So..to put this into perspective for you.... stats and figures ,ay tell one story, but it's your overall input, effort, approach, skill and determination that will win though. Kelly is miles ahead in this respect.

Going to go out on a limb here and suggest you don't attend many games...

You are right... you are way out on a limb and on the thinnest of branches . I have been a season ticket holder since Elm Park days and attended the majority of games.
I'll go out on my own limb here now.....and suggest you don't have much experience under your belt

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Re: CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

by Snowflake Royal » 14 Aug 2017 18:31

Swift may have looked jaded towards the end of last season, I didn't notice that on Saturday though. He put a real shift in, popping up all over the pitch.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

by MeMeMe » 14 Aug 2017 18:33

West Stand Man
MeMeMe
LWJ :roll: Don't let the fact Kelly is 'one of our own' cloud your judgement. All 3 midfielders have shown that they have great potential, but to suggest Kelly is miles ahead of them is laughable.

To put it in perspective for you, Kelly has now equalled his goal tally in 21(9) Championship games last year. Or a goal every 1812 minutes. His presence contributed 5 assists in that time as well. He averaged a rating of 6.71 across the season. https://www.whoscored.com/Players/26947 ... Liam-Kelly

Swift played a total of 34(5) games last year, averaging a goal every 356 minutes, and contributing 4 assists. With an average rating of 6.84. Now I appreciate that this was his second season, and he is 5 months older than Kelly so here's his first full seasons stats from his time at Brentford; 23(4) appearances. A goal every 273 minutes, 4 assists and an average of 6.94. https://www.whoscored.com/Players/14910 ... John-Swift

Evans on paper performs the worst, but then he isn't an attacking midfielder so it would be expected he doesn't contribute as much going forward. Last year was his first full season, making 27(11) appearances, averaging a goal every 1284 minutes and contributing 2 assists. His rating over the season was 6.55. https://www.whoscored.com/Players/12129 ... orge-Evans

Kelly is 21, he turns 22 in November. Swift is 22 he turned 22 in June this year. Evans is 22 and turns 23 in December. There is less than a year separating the lads in age, yet Evans and Swift get so much stick and are expected to carry the team....


Stats and figures are one thing... overall performances and effort are another. I has been clear to me that Swift in particular looks jaded, his effort has been lacking. He has ability and that is clear to see, yet his application is poor. Evans less so, he demonstrates little to suggest he has anything to shine above others at this level. So..to put this into perspective for you.... stats and figures ,ay tell one story, but it's your overall input, effort, approach, skill and determination that will win though. Kelly is miles ahead in this respect.


I guess you really don't get how the statistics are built up then.

I guess you really don't understand the full implications and shortcomings of stats & figures?


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Lower West
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Re: CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

by Lower West » 14 Aug 2017 19:13

MeMeMe
Evans less so, he demonstrates little to suggest he has anything to shine above others at this level.


Teams require workhorses as well. Not just stars. Stam is no doubt giving Evans clear instructions as to his role. Certainly has improved. Not least that he lasts the full 90 minutes. Rather than being subbed on 60 as totally exhausted.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

by LWJ » 14 Aug 2017 19:43

MeMeMe
LWJ
MeMeMe
Stats and figures are one thing... overall performances and effort are another. I has been clear to me that Swift in particular looks jaded, his effort has been lacking. He has ability and that is clear to see, yet his application is poor. Evans less so, he demonstrates little to suggest he has anything to shine above others at this level. So..to put this into perspective for you.... stats and figures ,ay tell one story, but it's your overall input, effort, approach, skill and determination that will win though. Kelly is miles ahead in this respect.

Going to go out on a limb here and suggest you don't attend many games...

You are right... you are way out on a limb and on the thinnest of branches . I have been a season ticket holder since Elm Park days and attended the majority of games.
I'll go out on my own limb here now.....and suggest you don't have much experience under your belt

Congratulations on your years of experience. Unfortunately for you I was suggesting last year, which you clearly don't have........ The fact that you think stats shouldn't be considered, shows which file you should be put under when posting.

West Stand Man
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Re: CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

by West Stand Man » 14 Aug 2017 19:58

MeMeMe
West Stand Man
MeMeMe
Stats and figures are one thing... overall performances and effort are another. I has been clear to me that Swift in particular looks jaded, his effort has been lacking. He has ability and that is clear to see, yet his application is poor. Evans less so, he demonstrates little to suggest he has anything to shine above others at this level. So..to put this into perspective for you.... stats and figures ,ay tell one story, but it's your overall input, effort, approach, skill and determination that will win though. Kelly is miles ahead in this respect.


I guess you really don't get how the statistics are built up then.

I guess you really don't understand the full implications and shortcomings of stats & figures?


Oh I think I do. I used to teach stats.

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John Smith
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Re: CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

by John Smith » 15 Aug 2017 09:18

West Stand Man
MeMeMe
West Stand Man
I guess you really don't get how the statistics are built up then.

I guess you really don't understand the full implications and shortcomings of stats & figures?


Oh I think I do. I used to teach stats.

Jesus - note to self: don't ever sit in the West Stand for fear of meeting this loser


West Stand Man
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Re: CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

by West Stand Man » 15 Aug 2017 20:17

John Smith
West Stand Man
MeMeMe I guess you really don't understand the full implications and shortcomings of stats & figures?


Oh I think I do. I used to teach stats.

Jesus - note to self: don't ever sit in the West Stand for fear of meeting this loser


Oh deary me. You are a bit out of touch aren't you. My ST was in the East Stand, oops. That's hard fact not statistical.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

by Royalwaster » 16 Aug 2017 08:38

Back to the topic of this thread - check this out (copied from the Villa forum on Bacuna) - three things stand out for me:

a) he looks genuinely two-footed
b) he can score free-kicks
c) he will rival JVDB in clanger of the season competition

Something captivated me about him when he first signed, I don't know if it was The Lion King reference but he seemed creative, something a bit different and a player that could possibly score goals and create chances others didn't read.

Something captivated me about him when he first signed, I don't know if it was The Lion King reference but he seemed creative, something a bit different and a player that could possibly score goals and create chances others didn't read.

This happened

http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2013/09/29/BacunaFreeKick.gif

I was excited.

But ultimately, in my opinion over his entire time at Villa, he was inconsistent, erratic and took risks that highlighted his reading of the game was poor.

He had a real lack of discipline and concentration and this lead to a lot of negativity in his performances.

Maybe if a real disciplinarian manager had gotten hold of him and tried to coach out the mistakes and worked on improving the basics of his game we would have seen him improve but in reality, we didn't and I'm unsure how he would have reacted emotionally.

It must be difficult to play for a team whose fans are clearly critical of you but if it's a result of how you've played and you can't cope with that and work hard to try and turn opinions around, that's another indication your mentality needs to improve.

Maybe another team will get more out of him, who knows? He does have talent, scoring a free kick like the one above and some of the other goals and assists he's produced show that, but at the top level, the division we are in now and for the vast majority of professional teams in the world, you need more than that. He didn't do it anywhere near enough anyway.

He linked up well with Benteke but so did most Villa players as Benteke was obviously quite special for us.

For me, The Champions League thing was blown out of proportion but if he had played better on the pitch, I think the effect of what he said off it would have lessened.

I wish him well but he was never going to solve our midfield problems. I hope we develop more consistency in the team in his absence.

Too much of this

http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_ima ... /Long2.gif


And nowhere near enough of this

http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_ima ... Bacuna.gif

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/assets/4078255 ... medium.gif

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Sutekh
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Re: CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

by Sutekh » 16 Aug 2017 09:08

Coaching wise Bacuna is native Dutch speaker, now if only Reading could get a Dutch coach in....

Therefore there should be no excuse for any shenanigans or non improvement.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

by Hound » 16 Aug 2017 09:36

seeing the utter shambles Villa served up last night - not surprised he didn't do too well there

The crowd also seem to dislike Lansbury who was excellent at Forest and Hourihane who was very rated at Barnsley. Suspect there's something deeper to it than he just isn't that good


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Re: CONFIMRED - Leandro Bacuna

by Royalwaster » 16 Aug 2017 12:24

Actually the Villa forum gives a bit of a mixed picture - a lot saying 'This is the best day of my life' type of posts ... but others much more balanced and saying that he was damaged by Villa and they expect him to be really quite good in a proper set-up.

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