Stams Tactics

Coppells Lost Coat
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Re: Stams Tactics

by Coppells Lost Coat » 28 Nov 2017 16:16

Stams tactics are right. the execution from the players is poor and slow. Midfield need to be showing for the ball a lot sooner than they are, when the pass to the midfield is complete, then the RB/LB should then bomb on. What we have is a midfield lacking in confidence to be able to receive the ball and move it quick enough to make an impact. Forward passing isn't always the answer or as effective as picking the correct pass. Injuries have almost certainly stifled any real progression from last season.
My criticism of how Stam, is how he is concentrating team selection on the merit of the opposition. The opposition come with mentality of parking the bus and sitting back due to be nullified by our tactics, then we get picked off.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by mambo3 » 28 Nov 2017 16:49

leon Movement, pace and stretching the play.

Midfield needs to drop receive the ball, movement around them to give them options and also pull the opposition around.

What actually happens is the team is static the defence gets frustrated passing to each other because there are no other options and one of them (eg McShane ) brings the ball into midfield as a result everything gets compressed, making the situation even worse.

Tbf to Stam this has been an issue since Adkins - except we don’t now have Guthrie trying lofted 40 yard balls that get intercepted.


What you smoking? They are scared shitless of making mistakes in case they get taken off or dropped. you cant play football if
you are worried about doing the wrong thing. Even if you play well you can be dropped or moved to another position. Team spirit, not
seeing it. Players are under too much pressure to work in a system that they are obviously feeling uncomfortable with. We play "SAFE"
football no "FLAIR" that's the problem, nothing else.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by leon » 28 Nov 2017 22:40

mambo3
leon Movement, pace and stretching the play.

Midfield needs to drop receive the ball, movement around them to give them options and also pull the opposition around.

What actually happens is the team is static the defence gets frustrated passing to each other because there are no other options and one of them (eg McShane ) brings the ball into midfield as a result everything gets compressed, making the situation even worse.

Tbf to Stam this has been an issue since Adkins - except we don’t now have Guthrie trying lofted 40 yard balls that get intercepted.


What you smoking? They are scared shitless of making mistakes in case they get taken off or dropped. you cant play football if
you are worried about doing the wrong thing. Even if you play well you can be dropped or moved to another position. Team spirit, not
seeing it. Players are under too much pressure to work in a system that they are obviously feeling uncomfortable with. We play "SAFE"
football no "FLAIR" that's the problem, nothing else.


I think you’re a bit weird.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by AthleticoSpizz » 28 Nov 2017 22:46

Hear me now Jaap....

....start with Bod

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Re: Stams Tactics

by KC Royal » 29 Nov 2017 08:31

I thought it was interesting to read yesterday Bod say that they had a talk after the game Sat and they agreed they need to stop overthinking things that they're doing. On the evidence of last night's result it obviously worked!


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Re: Stams Tactics

by Snowflake Royal » 29 Nov 2017 13:00

KC Royal I thought it was interesting to read yesterday Bod say that they had a talk after the game Sat and they agreed they need to stop overthinking things that they're doing. On the evidence of last night's result it obviously worked!

I've been saying that for a month or two. :roll:

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Re: Stams Tactics

by windermereROYAL » 29 Nov 2017 15:16

Ok, its time to come out and say it, and its something that gets my back up. I expect to get shot at but WTF I dont give a damn.

Why do people get up on there high chairs when we pass it backwards, FFS FORWARD I hear people shouting whenever there is a 5 yard backwards pass. if you compare last season to this there is a huge difference, no longer is it slow passing between the centre back and the ball at AHH feet with him not knowing what the fcuk to do with is, now we have a keeper with confidence on the ball.
if the bloody options are not there to go forward then passing it back is the only option. I'm not comparing us to top European sides but even Barcelona go backwards to create.
I despair sometimes with our fan base, even saw he post on my BFTG thread how some people were hoping we would lose. :shock: .

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Coppells Lost Coat » 29 Nov 2017 16:00

windermereROYAL Ok, its time to come out and say it, and its something that gets my back up. I expect to get shot at but WTF I dont give a damn.

Why do people get up on there high chairs when we pass it backwards, FFS FORWARD I hear people shouting whenever there is a 5 yard backwards pass. if you compare last season to this there is a huge difference, no longer is it slow passing between the centre back and the ball at AHH feet with him not knowing what the fcuk to do with is, now we have a keeper with confidence on the ball.
if the bloody options are not there to go forward then passing it back is the only option. I'm not comparing us to top European sides but even Barcelona go backwards to create.
I despair sometimes with our fan base, even saw he post on my BFTG thread how some people were hoping we would lose. :shock: .


Absolutely. Passing back or sideways is not a negative thing. It just resets the play, makes the opposition move and opens up spaces. It is down to the midfield to want the ball and find the pockets of space. This is not always possible, so back to the keeper and start again. It is tedious and frustrating but it is a very logical way of playing.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Snowball » 29 Nov 2017 16:28

KC Royal I thought it was interesting to read yesterday Bod say that they had a talk after the game Sat and they agreed they need to stop overthinking things that they're doing. On the evidence of last night's result it obviously worked!


Wasn't this said of the Adkins (or was it Rogers?) era?

Footballers who have learned their trade (and are also gifted) should be allowed
some latitude to do-what feels-right. Yes, drill BETWEEN games, and learn about shape,
angles, etc, BETWEEN games, but, other than that, trust the players' instincts, built up
over often more than 20 years.

There's an analogy in writing fiction (I teach fiction-writing) where we drill, argue about
comma-placement if you like, but I tell students "write drunk" just go for it, trust your unconscious,
write as fast as you can, don't stop to edit, just BLAST.

For ten years (but not this year) we did a 30-Hour marathon short-story-writing stint for
Children in Need, a new story every hour.

Some actually do the whole 30 Hours, 30 Stories, and some of the stories after 24-hours without sleep
turn out to be amazing.


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Re: Stams Tactics

by paddy20 » 29 Nov 2017 16:35

windermereROYAL Ok, its time to come out and say it, and its something that gets my back up. I expect to get shot at but WTF I dont give a damn.

Why do people get up on there high chairs when we pass it backwards, FFS FORWARD I hear people shouting whenever there is a 5 yard backwards pass. if you compare last season to this there is a huge difference, no longer is it slow passing between the centre back and the ball at AHH feet with him not knowing what the fcuk to do with is, now we have a keeper with confidence on the ball.
if the bloody options are not there to go forward then passing it back is the only option. I'm not comparing us to top European sides but even Barcelona go backwards to create.
I despair sometimes with our fan base, even saw he post on my BFTG thread how some people were hoping we would lose. :shock: .


Yes but passing back to our goalkeeper when we are on the edge of their penalty box??? I agree we are far better at passing the ball square and back than we were last year and the new keeper is confident on the ball. But having most of your possession in your half and slowing down the game is great away from home against top teams or when you have a 2 goal lead but not for EVERY game. It simply gives the opposition defence time to cover and makes it more difficult for the forwards to get the ball in space. Lets face it most games, win, lose or draw are pretty boring now with only tiny moments of excitement.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Snowflake Royal » 29 Nov 2017 22:58

paddy20
windermereROYAL Ok, its time to come out and say it, and its something that gets my back up. I expect to get shot at but WTF I dont give a damn.

Why do people get up on there high chairs when we pass it backwards, FFS FORWARD I hear people shouting whenever there is a 5 yard backwards pass. if you compare last season to this there is a huge difference, no longer is it slow passing between the centre back and the ball at AHH feet with him not knowing what the fcuk to do with is, now we have a keeper with confidence on the ball.
if the bloody options are not there to go forward then passing it back is the only option. I'm not comparing us to top European sides but even Barcelona go backwards to create.
I despair sometimes with our fan base, even saw he post on my BFTG thread how some people were hoping we would lose. :shock: .


Yes but passing back to our goalkeeper when we are on the edge of their penalty box??? I agree we are far better at passing the ball square and back than we were last year and the new keeper is confident on the ball. But having most of your possession in your half and slowing down the game is great away from home against top teams or when you have a 2 goal lead but not for EVERY game. It simply gives the opposition defence time to cover and makes it more difficult for the forwards to get the ball in space. Lets face it most games, win, lose or draw are pretty boring now with only tiny moments of excitement.

Well yes. If their defence is set and packed, it's perfectly valid to go back, draw them out and hey presto you've stretched the pitch and created space you can exploit again.

Just got to get better at using passes to take players out the game and know when to change up the tempo.

The slow tempo game is about tiring the opposition whilst maintaining your own energy and then shifting up the gears to exploit an error. As long as you remember to shift up at times it works. It's being one-paced that's bad, not slow or quick.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Hound » 30 Nov 2017 06:34

We could definitely pass it forward with a bit more urgency at times. Moore, much as I rate the lad, does at times turn back when he should either be looking for the wing or driving forward himself, which he is more than capable of doing effectively

I do quite like the way with Bacuna, Aluko and Barrow on the wings we can go from arsing around at the back to a full on charge forward in a matter of seconds though

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Re: Stams Tactics

by paddy20 » 30 Nov 2017 08:22

Snowflake Royal
paddy20
windermereROYAL Ok, its time to come out and say it, and its something that gets my back up. I expect to get shot at but WTF I dont give a damn.

Why do people get up on there high chairs when we pass it backwards, FFS FORWARD I hear people shouting whenever there is a 5 yard backwards pass. if you compare last season to this there is a huge difference, no longer is it slow passing between the centre back and the ball at AHH feet with him not knowing what the fcuk to do with is, now we have a keeper with confidence on the ball.
if the bloody options are not there to go forward then passing it back is the only option. I'm not comparing us to top European sides but even Barcelona go backwards to create.
I despair sometimes with our fan base, even saw he post on my BFTG thread how some people were hoping we would lose. :shock: .


Yes but passing back to our goalkeeper when we are on the edge of their penalty box??? I agree we are far better at passing the ball square and back than we were last year and the new keeper is confident on the ball. But having most of your possession in your half and slowing down the game is great away from home against top teams or when you have a 2 goal lead but not for EVERY game. It simply gives the opposition defence time to cover and makes it more difficult for the forwards to get the ball in space. Lets face it most games, win, lose or draw are pretty boring now with only tiny moments of excitement.

Well yes. If their defence is set and packed, it's perfectly valid to go back, draw them out and hey presto you've stretched the pitch and created space you can exploit again.

Just got to get better at using passes to take players out the game and know when to change up the tempo.

The slow tempo game is about tiring the opposition whilst maintaining your own energy and then shifting up the gears to exploit an error. As long as you remember to shift up at times it works. It's being one-paced that's bad, not slow or quick.


See your point and it worked last year. But now teams have sussed us out. When we keep the ball the other teams have stopped trying to get possession off us. They just sit back and rest so now it has the opposite effect.


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Re: Stams Tactics

by Snowflake Royal » 30 Nov 2017 12:16

paddy20
Snowflake Royal
paddy20
Yes but passing back to our goalkeeper when we are on the edge of their penalty box??? I agree we are far better at passing the ball square and back than we were last year and the new keeper is confident on the ball. But having most of your possession in your half and slowing down the game is great away from home against top teams or when you have a 2 goal lead but not for EVERY game. It simply gives the opposition defence time to cover and makes it more difficult for the forwards to get the ball in space. Lets face it most games, win, lose or draw are pretty boring now with only tiny moments of excitement.

Well yes. If their defence is set and packed, it's perfectly valid to go back, draw them out and hey presto you've stretched the pitch and created space you can exploit again.

Just got to get better at using passes to take players out the game and know when to change up the tempo.

The slow tempo game is about tiring the opposition whilst maintaining your own energy and then shifting up the gears to exploit an error. As long as you remember to shift up at times it works. It's being one-paced that's bad, not slow or quick.


See your point and it worked last year. But now teams have sussed us out. When we keep the ball the other teams have stopped trying to get possession off us. They just sit back and rest so now it has the opposite effect.

Teams haven't sussed us out. A few may have improved their response a bit. We've just played badly / had injuries / got unlucky in toi many games.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Hound » 30 Nov 2017 14:19

Teams 'sussed us out' from the first game of last season. We've never tried to hide how we'll play

Agree with Ian, just been a case we haven't implemented the system as well this year. Being thats more stupid mistakes at the back, being less clinical up front, or getting injuries to key players

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Re: Stams Tactics

by SCIAG » 30 Nov 2017 15:41

paddy20
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Yes but passing back to our goalkeeper when we are on the edge of their penalty box??? <snip>

Well yes. If their defence is set and packed, it's perfectly valid to go back, draw them out and hey presto you've stretched the pitch and created space you can exploit again. <snip>


See your point and it worked last year. But now teams have sussed us out. <snip>

On Tuesday we won a throw in on the left wing, in front of the West Stand, almost level with the opposition penalty area. We threw it backwards, it went back to Moore, and then back to Mannone. There was a big groan. But we worked it forward again, and one of the midfielders played a great ball to get Barrow in behind the right back and create a chance or win a corner.

So it seems to me like that strategy can still work just fine.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by paddy20 » 30 Nov 2017 15:52

SCIAG
paddy20
Snowflake Royal Well yes. If their defence is set and packed, it's perfectly valid to go back, draw them out and hey presto you've stretched the pitch and created space you can exploit again. <snip>


See your point and it worked last year. But now teams have sussed us out. <snip>

On Tuesday we won a throw in on the left wing, in front of the West Stand, almost level with the opposition penalty area. We threw it backwards, it went back to Moore, and then back to Mannone. There was a big groan. But we worked it forward again, and one of the midfielders played a great ball to get Barrow in behind the right back and create a chance or win a corner.

So it seems to me like that strategy can still work just fine.



Of course anything CAN happen. If you think the present style of football is successful and enjoyable then fine. For me its quite tedious a so far this year hasn't worked despite having overall a better squad

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Re: Stams Tactics

by windermereROYAL » 30 Nov 2017 17:57

I also have to take issue with the sussed out bollocks, its nothing new, we all saw the game at Brighton last year, they let us play whatever we wanted to do in our own half, and still stuffed us 3-0.
So to say its just happening this year is rubbish. its how we respond to this that is the main point.
teams still try to play the same way. but for me we are way more advanced this season. its faster and we carry more of a threat, it doesn't always work, shown by some poor home results, but we haven't been beaten heavily by anyone yet, unlike last year.
For me we are progressing in the right direction, nobody said it would be a quick solution to the Adkins/Clark/and mcdermoett2 years.
all we need is patience from the knee jerk Stam out idiots and I`m confident it will come good in due course.

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Snowball » 30 Nov 2017 19:21

Some teams do stay deep and not challenge the back four
but that gives the CBs in particular space to break forward and
more or less become an extra man in attack.

McShane has been doing it more and more and Moore showed
what can happen when HE does it.

But they need to move up as a unit when they have the ball and room.

It's not boring then!

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Re: Stams Tactics

by Snowball » 30 Nov 2017 19:23

more and more and Moore



ugh!

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