BFTG - Bolton

Theroyalbox
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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by Theroyalbox » 07 Mar 2018 09:19

Christ, how far have we fallen. That was utterly pathetic, void of any game plan void of any quality, except for Mo Barrow who I slagged off on here but he has proved me wrong and without him we would honestly be looking at an even grimmer fate.

Liam Kelly also had a decent game, must be hard trying to run a midfield by yourself, Dave Edwards went missing apart from one great block and Evans must've been a contender for his worst game in a Reading shirt, looked half the composed player he did last year. Holmes, what a f*cking strange decision playing him, he was pretty poor in the first half but fought back well in the second half so credit to him and I hope he has a bright future at Reading. Jaakola was poor, couldn't catch a cold or kick for that matter, harsh to drop Vito who yeah hasn't been great but that's not our problem at the moment. Also the keeper was doing my head in when he has the ball in the 80th-90th minute taken ages to take a goal kick like come on lets at least try and get 3 points at home to Bolton ???

Stam please just go before this all goes wrong, admittedly its probably not all his fault, things have been wrong at Reading for far too long to pin the blame all on him, but theres one thing he can get right and that's team selection and tactics and that is something that has been wrong probably since the Derby away game.

Lastly and I know I was joking about Alfie being a legend on another thread (even though he is) he was absolutely fantastic last night, was quick strong and got a well deserved goal so huge credit to him.

Were going down, if any team can put on a run below us.

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The Reverend
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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by The Reverend » 07 Mar 2018 10:07

MoorgateRoyal I like Jaap and I will not forget last season


Nor will I. The football was boring then too.

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by MoorgateRoyal » 07 Mar 2018 10:14

I don't think it was, mainly because there was confidence throughout the team and we were picking up results. It was working so there wasn't a great need to change up the style like we have seen this year, and we really dug in defensively when we needed to.

Let's not forget that finishing 3rd in the Championship is still about our fifth or sixth best-ever league finish, and we were up there pretty much all year. It doesn't make this season's performances any less shit, but it should be kept in mind anyway.

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by The Reverend » 07 Mar 2018 10:20

Our finishing position did not make it an entertaining season. I don't go to football to watch us soak up pressure, pass the ball around the back four, sneak a goal and then soak up the pressure again.

Stam has to go.

I don't mind being disappointed, or frustrated, or angry at football but I won't spend another season being bored.

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by John Smith » 07 Mar 2018 10:23

Now this is going to sound harsh - as it wasn't his fault, it was Stam's for playing him but how any of you can come on here and say Tom Holmes did well are dreaming. I love home grown talent. I want youngsters to play, but you simply can not play a 17 year old with no experience in men's football - he was skinned every single time bar one by Le Fondre and it was difficult to watch.

My final point is that George Evans must go. He probably needs to find a club, maybe 2 divisions below us in quality, but not in England as he can't cut it. The Dutch second tier would probably suit


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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by paultheroyal » 07 Mar 2018 10:30

It is absolutely outrageous that this man can take us down with not a care in the world and then just walk away.

I am not for sacking managers but this has gone far beyond that. Team setup last night and last week was atrocious.

I am sorry but a settled team of ilori, Moore, Blackett (yes I know) and Gunter, with a midfield of Aluko, Barrow, Kelly, Swift, Bacuna and Martin up front would not be languishing with the real threat of relegation.

Who on earth is calling the shots at the top. Can only hope Madjeski has been making sounds but unless change happens after Leeds game (because we will lose) we will be playing the likes of Fleetwood, Accrington and the like. Shambolic.

A Warburton, Pearson,, Craig Bellamy, Frank blooming Lampard - anyone could fire this lot up to get us those 3/4 wins required.

Make the change now - for god's sake!!

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by NewCorkSeth » 07 Mar 2018 10:35

John Smith Now this is going to sound harsh - as it wasn't his fault, it was Stam's for playing him but how any of you can come on here and say Tom Holmes did well are dreaming. I love home grown talent. I want youngsters to play, but you simply can not play a 17 year old with no experience in men's football - he was skinned every single time bar one by Le Fondre and it was difficult to watch.

My final point is that George Evans must go. He probably needs to find a club, maybe 2 divisions below us in quality, but not in England as he can't cut it. The Dutch second tier would probably suit

You think? I reckon the poor lad is shit of confidence. He was doing well/fine before all the chopping and changing and I wouldn't blame any player for struggling to keep up with the formation changes and different roles demanded of them week in week out.

He was out of the team for so long he's probably just suffering from a severe dose of tactical confusion.

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by MoorgateRoyal » 07 Mar 2018 10:36

Entertaining or not, it worked last season. People generally like watching successful teams, even if they don't like the style. The attendance figures back that up. For example, I didn't find the style in 11/12 particularly entertaining, but we were winning and playing to our strengths so I enjoyed it.

As I said, I think Stam has been given every chance to succeed and if we don't finish the season well I'll certainly call for him to go.

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by muirinho » 07 Mar 2018 11:04

NewCorkSeth
John Smith Now this is going to sound harsh - as it wasn't his fault, it was Stam's for playing him but how any of you can come on here and say Tom Holmes did well are dreaming. I love home grown talent. I want youngsters to play, but you simply can not play a 17 year old with no experience in men's football - he was skinned every single time bar one by Le Fondre and it was difficult to watch.

My final point is that George Evans must go. He probably needs to find a club, maybe 2 divisions below us in quality, but not in England as he can't cut it. The Dutch second tier would probably suit

You think? I reckon the poor lad is shit of confidence. He was doing well/fine before all the chopping and changing and I wouldn't blame any player for struggling to keep up with the formation changes and different roles demanded of them week in week out.

He was out of the team for so long he's probably just suffering from a severe dose of tactical confusion.


I think they are ALL suffering from tactical confusion. A number of players have talked about how much Stam has taught them, not just about their own roles but about everybody else's. And, you know, they probably can spout that stuff back during team meetings and the like. Be very useful to them in the future if they start taking their coaching badges. But out on the pitch, when there's so much going on, being able to fall back on instincts at times is very useful, and right now it seems to have been coached out of them.

I know we've had injuries, but I'd say, apart from goalies, the only player who's been in the same position, same role, all season is Liam Moore. And even then he's had a constantly changing castlist around him.

I don't buy the "They're not trying, they don't care" line. They are trying, they do care. But they definitely seem confused and lacking in confidence. And for that blame has to go down to the coaching staff.

Having said that, either Stam is changing tactics, or the players are deciding for him - there was a lot more "get rid of it quick" style defending last night. And very little playing out from the back.

Having seen Jaakola in action btw, I want Mannone back in, pronto.

As for Holmes - he was very suspect first half, but settled in a bit better second half. It's a pity Richards was injured, as he'd have got more protection if Gunter was that side rather than the other - Having a midfielder as a makeshift full back along side you in your first senior game cannot have helped. While on that, don't get the criticism of Gunter from earlier posters, he dealt pretty well with everything down his side, got involved in a number of attacks, and that was an absolute peach of a cross at the end that JDB should have made more of.

Barrow my MOTM, closely followed by Kelly (apart from that horrendous near assist for Alfie in the first half!)

My HorrowshowOTM is Aluko. It nearly always is!


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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by Victor Meldrew » 07 Mar 2018 11:07

I mentioned on another thread last week that this team is now heading (unless we win most of the remaining games (!!)) towards having the worst win record at home in the last 100 years or possibly the second worst.
That record would take some doing as we have had some terrible seasons but historically we have always been a side that does well at home and, in most seasons not so well away.
I was fortunate enough not to be able to go last night due to a retirement do for me, so a bit tricky trying to get out of it, but managed to follow what was happening at the nearly-deserted Mad Stad, including the away side at one stage outnumbering in us for corners 8-1.

One of the others where I was is a Saints regular (also depressed due to the lack of wins and entertainment at home games) who remembers well Alf doing the business at their place in that glorious week of away wins at Brighton and Southampton and asked "how come you let him go?"
It was an impossible question to answer but the fact that he has played so little for a poor Bolton side says something and there was the inevitability that he would score wasn't there?

I can only think that Stam in desperation was looking for some credit from the fans for playing a novice at centre-back-on the lines of "See, I am prepared to give youth a chance" and Clement at full-back?
Is it compulsory for at least one Dutchman to play even if it is out of position or does Stam feel that we need to follow the old Dutch mantra of "total football?" Joey in goal against Leeds?

There was a time when attendances mattered so much more than they do now for the finances of clubs and players and managers even got bonuses based on attendance figures-last night they wouldn't have earned much and the so-called "matchday experience" would not have been great for the consumers who continue to watch this dreadful team and seldom complain.

Stam has had one of the easiest rides that any manager has surely had with this awful home record and Saturday will only have a reasonable attendance because of all the Leeds fans that will be there marching on together.

As ever with fans hope springs eternal so let us hope that now Spring is here we see something to prevent this team from being the worst ever at home in the club's history.

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by genome » 07 Mar 2018 11:15

It does seem poetic that Stam would be sacked after a match against Leeds.

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by RG7Fan » 07 Mar 2018 11:47

John Madejski's Wallet Oh and Schards having a massive moan on BBCRB on the way home made me chuckle :D


Which one was Schards?

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by genome » 07 Mar 2018 12:20

https://the-wanderer.co.uk/boards/viewt ... 7&start=40

A word at this point for Reading. The word is awful. for reasons unknown they picked a debutant kid at centre-back, Tom Holmes, who turns 18 this week. His present should be a How To Defend video from his boss, because he was frankly a liability. You might expect a kid to be outwitted by ALF, as he frequently was; you’d be disappointed if he was outsprinted, as he frequently was. ALF had the beating of him all game long.

And Bolton had the beating of Reading, who looked worse than their league position suggests. The trouble with trying to play out from the back is that when you fail, you look foolish and incapable. Reading failed, many times, to cope with the merest pressure from us. It’s an unknowable alternative universe but it’s tempting to imagine how laughable Reading would have been had they won that Wembley shootout against Huddersfield.

Their ineptitude undoubtedly helped us execute what was genuinely the best second-tier Bolton away performance I’ve seen in literally years.


Oof.


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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by John Smith » 07 Mar 2018 12:29

genome https://the-wanderer.co.uk/boards/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26747&start=40

A word at this point for Reading. The word is awful. for reasons unknown they picked a debutant kid at centre-back, Tom Holmes, who turns 18 this week. His present should be a How To Defend video from his boss, because he was frankly a liability. You might expect a kid to be outwitted by ALF, as he frequently was; you’d be disappointed if he was outsprinted, as he frequently was. ALF had the beating of him all game long.

And Bolton had the beating of Reading, who looked worse than their league position suggests. The trouble with trying to play out from the back is that when you fail, you look foolish and incapable. Reading failed, many times, to cope with the merest pressure from us. It’s an unknowable alternative universe but it’s tempting to imagine how laughable Reading would have been had they won that Wembley shootout against Huddersfield.

Their ineptitude undoubtedly helped us execute what was genuinely the best second-tier Bolton away performance I’ve seen in literally years.


Oof.

I have to agree with a lot of that but then question how much of a complete and utter tosser he/she is if she/he thinks we are that bad her/his team can't win against us, yet it was their best away performance in years. Is his/her head in the sand?

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by bcubed » 07 Mar 2018 13:08

RG7Fan
John Madejski's Wallet Oh and Schards having a massive moan on BBCRB on the way home made me chuckle :D


Which one was Schards?


Yes please tell us

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by wingnut » 07 Mar 2018 14:00

That report from the Wanderers fan is about right - we're unable to play out from defence because we can't handle being placed under pressure. He was right about Holmes too - ALF beat him for pace almost every time (there was one decent tackle Holmes put on him when both were sprinting but that was it) and I doubt whether he'll start against Leeds.
Clement at right back was a liability too, particularly in the first half - time and again Stam had to point out to him where he should be. No surprise that the goal came from him and Holmes being nowhere to be seen with 2 Bolton players in acres of space on our right.
Curious initial responses from Stam in his post-match interview, too - almost as if he was saying 'see how bad we are when we play the way you want us to?'

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by Denver Royal » 07 Mar 2018 16:26

MoorgateRoyal Holmes - 6.
Moore - 6. Couple of good challenges and I could hear him shouting and geeing the team up. I think he should be given the armband.
JDB - 4. Won absolutely nothing in the air and never really looked like having a shot.
Swift - 4. His one effort was pretty woeful. Is a very good player when he's fit and we have the right players around him.


Moorgate, a very good, thorough, write up earlier, well done. Re. the above 4 players...

Holmes - For the future, bit concerned at his lack of height and pace, but was dropped right in it, as you say. Has he been pulling up tree's in the younger team's and really pushing for a place?
Moore - Agree, he really put in a shift last night, having looked below-par in some recent games.
JDB - Yeah, said before he's 6'3 yet plays much shorter than that. Watches defenders head the ball rather than at least challenging for it. Good chance right at the end to win it. Fine margins, and all that.
Swift - Yep, careless with his late shot, easy to spoon it over there. Seemed like he had time to take a touch first. Has to at least put it on frame and make the keeper save it there. If he scores there and we win, slightly different narrative today. Glad he's back, though, for the run-in.

Going forward, more for the Summer really, this team is not big or physical enough for this league, imo. You need to win some games 1-0. Other's do, we don't. Warnock sets targets of 16 shut outs a season, which they already have (with our ex-players Morrison (club capt) and Halford). Their last 4 games are three 1-0's and a 2-1, all wins. Too many crosses in to our box (and there are many crosses in the Champ) are a drama/adventure.
Last edited by Denver Royal on 07 Mar 2018 17:18, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by Zip » 07 Mar 2018 17:04

Moorgate. A 4 for Gunter? He made two vital challenges in the first half and delivered a superb cross at the death which nearly resulted in a goal.
Moore was my MoTM. I lost count of the number of headers he made. For most of the time his positioning was excellent.

At least there will be a decent gate on Saturday. Hopefully as with Derby it will lift the players. I have a feeling the players will turn up on and we will finally win at home on a Saturday.
Just one win right now will make a world of difference. After Leeds we have six away games and just four home games left. Most of the always are daunting, ie Wolves, Cardiff,Fulham and Villa. Our best hope for a home win looks like QPR and Sunderland.

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by genome » 07 Mar 2018 17:25

Re Holmes - there are plenty of centre backs who have no pace (Stam, anyone!?) you just adjust tactically.

You certainly don’t ask them to man mark and stay tight :lol:

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Re: BFTG - Bolton

by Lower West » 07 Mar 2018 18:11

Zip I thought Jaakkola was very dodgy. He was completely unwilling to catch the ball and he made two really poor clearances.


If you had seen him warm up before the Stevenage away game you wouldn't have been surprised.

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