Ex Players

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Re: Ex Players

by Weymouth Royal » 21 Mar 2022 14:24

Rudolph Hucker Went to watch Hungerford vs Billericay on Saturday. Two ex-Royals in the Billericay line-up - Simon Cox was coach and an unused sub and Greg Halford was at centre back (and scored a penalty). I was never quite sure why Halford's stay at Reading was so brief, although have heard lots of rumours! He was playing second tier football as recently as 2018 but is 37 now so getting a bit slower, if that's possible.


He 'was' a coke head. Roy Keane went mental after we flogged him to Sunderland and he realised why.

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Re: Ex Players

by Mr Angry » 22 Mar 2022 08:45

YorkshireRoyal99
No, but it is poor planning to not improve his contract when it became apparent he was breaking into the first team. For example, after 20 first team games, his wages moved from £3k p/w to £5.5k p/w and his release clause moves from £8m to £10m. Anybody in football would have known that, at 17, he was going to make it at this level. He was breaking into our team then, why we didn't offer him a new deal then that tied him down for years and put a hugely improved release clause in his contract, I do not know.


Because he would have simply turned the offer down; his agent would have told him that PL clubs would be definitely after him and he would get a bigger signing on fee if he kept on the same contract at Reading.

And lets face it, Olise isn't likely to stay at Palace for too long either; another season, 2 at most and then he will be gone to a top 4 PL club or a top European club

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Re: Ex Players

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 22 Mar 2022 09:17

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No, but it is poor planning to not improve his contract when it became apparent he was breaking into the first team. For example, after 20 first team games, his wages moved from £3k p/w to £5.5k p/w and his release clause moves from £8m to £10m. Anybody in football would have known that, at 17, he was going to make it at this level. He was breaking into our team then, why we didn't offer him a new deal then that tied him down for years and put a hugely improved release clause in his contract, I do not know.


Because he would have simply turned the offer down; his agent would have told him that PL clubs would be definitely after him and he would get a bigger signing on fee if he kept on the same contract at Reading.

And lets face it, Olise isn't likely to stay at Palace for too long either; another season, 2 at most and then he will be gone to a top 4 PL club or a top European club


There was no guarantee of that though. Yes, it may have been "obvious" to some, but what happens if it didn't work out for him with us? His attitude let him down, a crippling injury etc. No players don't want to be contracted to a club and I doubt at the age of 16/17 he would have had anything lined up for a PL move or anything like that.

I know it's contradictory to my original point about how anyone in football would have known he would make it, but I was basing that off the ability he possesses, whereas an unfortunate circumstance, such as an injury, may have prevented that from happening. I can't imagine he would have turned a contract offer down to improve him in the immediate future and improve the club in the long term either. If he was going to be good enough to get his move, someone would have paid the money for him and we would have sold.

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Re: Ex Players

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Mar 2022 11:04

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No, but it is poor planning to not improve his contract when it became apparent he was breaking into the first team. For example, after 20 first team games, his wages moved from £3k p/w to £5.5k p/w and his release clause moves from £8m to £10m. Anybody in football would have known that, at 17, he was going to make it at this level. He was breaking into our team then, why we didn't offer him a new deal then that tied him down for years and put a hugely improved release clause in his contract, I do not know.


Because he would have simply turned the offer down; his agent would have told him that PL clubs would be definitely after him and he would get a bigger signing on fee if he kept on the same contract at Reading.

And lets face it, Olise isn't likely to stay at Palace for too long either; another season, 2 at most and then he will be gone to a top 4 PL club or a top European club


There was no guarantee of that though. Yes, it may have been "obvious" to some, but what happens if it didn't work out for him with us? His attitude let him down, a crippling injury etc. No players don't want to be contracted to a club and I doubt at the age of 16/17 he would have had anything lined up for a PL move or anything like that.

I know it's contradictory to my original point about how anyone in football would have known he would make it, but I was basing that off the ability he possesses, whereas an unfortunate circumstance, such as an injury, may have prevented that from happening. I can't imagine he would have turned a contract offer down to improve him in the immediate future and improve the club in the long term either. If he was going to be good enough to get his move, someone would have paid the money for him and we would have sold.

Players don't think that way. And agents certainly don't. They're all about maximising short term revenue through big signings.

If it hadn't worked out here, he'd have backed himself to get another club for it to work out there.

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Re: Ex Players

by South Coast Royal » 22 Mar 2022 11:43

On Olise credit to whoever at the club brought him here.
He had been at two top clubs in Chelsea and Man City where he may not have been wanted but coming to us he flourished in a less star-filled playing squad.

He has benefited through playing at a reasonable level and ending up (may still be a stepping stone) at a Premier League club-we have benefited through his performances on the pitch and from a significant transfer fee.

More please of the same with other players who clearly are well thought of very early in their career and don't flourish in the big club environment (see also, Sidwell, Harper and Swift).


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Re: Ex Players

by Dirk Gently » 22 Mar 2022 11:54

South Coast Royal On Olise credit to whoever at the club brought him here.
He had been at two top clubs in Chelsea and Man City where he may not have been wanted but coming to us he flourished in a less star-filled playing squad.

He has benefited through playing at a reasonable level and ending up (may still be a stepping stone) at a Premier League club-we have benefited through his performances on the pitch and from a significant transfer fee.

More please of the same with other players who clearly are well thought of very early in their career and don't flourish in the big club environment (see also, Sidwell, Harper and Swift).


Yep - the one biggest selling point we have for up and coming youngsters is that they'll have get games (or have "a pathway to the first team") which is how it's presented. Kids going to Cat One academies at bigger clubs will be competing with expensive overseas players for first-team places, or get the occasional cup game. Kids who want to play games and show how good they are but also get top-class coaching will see us as an attractive stepping stone - but only ever as a stepping stone.

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Re: Ex Players

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Mar 2022 12:36

This is why it is so important that if we do start competing at the right end of the Championship we don't remove that pathway.

As long as we're at the bottom we're a stepping stone. If we're at the top and still bringing players through, we're more.

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Re: Ex Players

by 3points » 22 Mar 2022 12:48

as already said, agents and players' advisors play a lot in these decisions. We probably got the best deal we could with Olise with the £8m buy-out clause. I know for a fact that Omar Richards was offered multiple contracts as soon as we knew he was stepping into the first team on a regular basis, but he never had any intention to consider any of them.

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Re: Ex Players

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 22 Mar 2022 16:02

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Because he would have simply turned the offer down; his agent would have told him that PL clubs would be definitely after him and he would get a bigger signing on fee if he kept on the same contract at Reading.

And lets face it, Olise isn't likely to stay at Palace for too long either; another season, 2 at most and then he will be gone to a top 4 PL club or a top European club


There was no guarantee of that though. Yes, it may have been "obvious" to some, but what happens if it didn't work out for him with us? His attitude let him down, a crippling injury etc. No players don't want to be contracted to a club and I doubt at the age of 16/17 he would have had anything lined up for a PL move or anything like that.

I know it's contradictory to my original point about how anyone in football would have known he would make it, but I was basing that off the ability he possesses, whereas an unfortunate circumstance, such as an injury, may have prevented that from happening. I can't imagine he would have turned a contract offer down to improve him in the immediate future and improve the club in the long term either. If he was going to be good enough to get his move, someone would have paid the money for him and we would have sold.

Players don't think that way. And agents certainly don't. They're all about maximising short term revenue through big signings.

If it hadn't worked out here, he'd have backed himself to get another club for it to work out there.


Yes but there never was a "big signing" in the pipeline when he was 16 or 17. He only broke into the first team squad about 2 years ago and obviously flourished last season.

If we were so sure of his potential at a young age, be it 16/17, his first professional contract should have been one that lasted for 4/5 years. Like I say, if he was good enough (he was), he'd have got his move anyway. A 4-5 year deal doesn't mean he's staying at our club for that period of time, but it's maximising what we could get for him whilst providing stability knowing his developing years were going to be at a good club, performing at a good level all things considered with potential to move higher. It's not as if we've ever stopped players moving before, we are part of the food chain, we are a stepping stone club for players.

I know that doesn't exactly relate to his release clause, but again, performance-related bonuses exist. After 5 league games, his wage moves from £2.5k to £3.3k whilst his release clause moves from £8m to £9.5m. After 25 league games, £3.3k to £5k, release clause to £11m etc. It's not impossible to do so by any stretch of the imagination, but our misuse in the transfer market and spending probably left us in a situation where we couldn't even do this with players.

Paunovic mentioned this himself last summer, the club should not be in a situation, with Richards' and Olise's contract's, again. That, to me anyway, says that the club didn't do something right previously with either player.


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Re: Ex Players

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Mar 2022 16:04

You can’t give every hot young prospect a 4/5 year deal and gargantuan release clause.

You're living in Hindsightville.

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Re: Ex Players

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 23 Mar 2022 09:05

Snowflake Royal You can’t give every hot young prospect a 4/5 year deal and gargantuan release clause.

You're living in Hindsightville.


I never said you could give every hot young prospect a long term deal and a big release clause, but you can give your best young prospect that you believe is "destined" to play at a higher level a long-term deal with a release clause.

I don't really understand the hindsight comment either. That would make sense if I was talking about some sort of phenomenon in football, but I'm not. Many clubs manage to secure their talented youngsters down to long-term deals that increase their value, protect the player with a release clause so that he can get his move but also benefits the club because they have the potential to keep a good and improving player for the foreseeable. It's actually very common. It just so happens that we've appeared to let many players slip through the net over the last 4/5 years because we haven't correctly planned how to retain their services whilst benefitting the club.

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Re: Ex Players

by Hound » 23 Mar 2022 09:19

Tbf we got him to sign a 3 year deal when he was out of contract, was attracting interest and was by absolutely not nailed on to sign for us. Hence the release clause.

Also remember before he came to us he had bounced around other academies - Chelsea and Arsenal I think. So it was by no means certain he’d make it

Obvs it’s frustrating now to an extent when you see how well he is playing and what he is worth. But we could have lost him at 16/17 for nothing

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Re: Ex Players

by Hound » 23 Mar 2022 09:22

Richards was a strange one. He wasn’t pulling up any trees at all, then suddenly looked amazing for half a season which just happened to be the last year of his contract

Unfortunate we didn’t tie him down quickly at the beginning of last season and we did miss that window when he would have signed I expect. Though there were obvs restrictions in place then as well


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Re: Ex Players

by URZZZZ » 23 Mar 2022 09:30

Problems of having too large a squad - too much competition at LB (Obita, Blackett, even Gunter played better at LB etc), possibly led to a situation where he ended up trying too hard to cement the spot when given opportunities. Whereas last season the spot was firmly his to lose

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Re: Ex Players

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 23 Mar 2022 09:32

I meant there were obvious signs he was going to make it in our squad, we'd have known at 16/17 when he was beginning to break into our first team squad and was playing games for us. That's when we should have tied him down, at the back end of Bowen's reign, but of course some restrictions seemed to be in place at that point which may have hindered what we can offer players, contract wise anyway.

I don't doubt that was a similar case to Richards. That's probably why Pauno was frustrated and said that the club shouldn't be in that situation again regarding players contracts.

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Re: Ex Players

by Stranded » 23 Mar 2022 10:01

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that he only signed the contract at 17 with the guaranteed release clause - without it, he would have walked away and would have likely gone to another Champ club pretty quickly who would have given him the deal he wanted.

The 3 year deal was clearly the plan from the Olise side - one year to break in to the team, one year to produce and get interest from the PL and leave us with no choice but to sell at a price that a PL club would consider a steal. If no-one comes in, likely look to sign a pre-contract with a larger European side in January 22.

The only way he was going to sign a new deal was if he a) got injured in season 1 or 2 and the "plan" was delayed 12 months as a result or b) we got promoted last season.

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Re: Ex Players

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 23 Mar 2022 10:19

No reason as to why he couldn't have attempted to either renew his contract (could have done to be fair so that can't be said for certain) or included performance-related clauses in his contract. It works both ways, it doesn't just benefit player, it's there to benefit a club as well.

An £8m release clause seemed very low considering the fee's PL clubs are paying for talented Championship players these days. He may just walked away, but there was never any guarantee his next club could have offered him the same as what we did at 16/17.

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Re: Ex Players

by SCIAG » 23 Mar 2022 12:02

YorkshireRoyal99 No reason as to why he couldn't have attempted to either renew his contract (could have done to be fair so that can't be said for certain) or included performance-related clauses in his contract. It works both ways, it doesn't just benefit player, it's there to benefit a club as well.

An £8m release clause seemed very low considering the fee's PL clubs are paying for talented Championship players these days. He may just walked away, but there was never any guarantee his next club could have offered him the same as what we did at 16/17.

He wasn’t James Maddison when he signed the contract. At the time he signed it, £8m would have been an excellent fee for us - our record sale, for a player on the fringes of the first team.

Yeah, once he had developed we could probably have got a lot more for him without the clause. But better to get £8m than the EPPP minimum.

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Re: Ex Players

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 23 Mar 2022 12:16

SCIAG
YorkshireRoyal99 No reason as to why he couldn't have attempted to either renew his contract (could have done to be fair so that can't be said for certain) or included performance-related clauses in his contract. It works both ways, it doesn't just benefit player, it's there to benefit a club as well.

An £8m release clause seemed very low considering the fee's PL clubs are paying for talented Championship players these days. He may just walked away, but there was never any guarantee his next club could have offered him the same as what we did at 16/17.

He wasn’t James Maddison when he signed the contract. At the time he signed it, £8m would have been an excellent fee for us - our record sale, for a player on the fringes of the first team.

Yeah, once he had developed we could probably have got a lot more for him without the clause. But better to get £8m than the EPPP minimum.


It's about being proactive though and recognising that this player has the potential to reach a certain level where we can begin to command a certain fee. Yes, £8m and a record sale for someone on the fringes of the first team is good, but looking at it from another context, a youngster with potential to reach the highest level of the game was "only" sold for £8m. Again, looking at this in perspective when the likes of Bellingham left for £25m, Webster moved for £20m etc, none of these players refused to sign deals "knowing" they were going to make it at a higher level. Yes, they aren't the same players/agents of course but, as I've said previously, it's not a phenomenon, he may have recently signed a new deal, but we could have persuaded for a different deal to happen or included clauses where this release clause went up as per x numbers of appearances, goals, assists etc.

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Re: Ex Players

by muirinho » 23 Mar 2022 12:31

SCIAG
YorkshireRoyal99 No reason as to why he couldn't have attempted to either renew his contract (could have done to be fair so that can't be said for certain) or included performance-related clauses in his contract. It works both ways, it doesn't just benefit player, it's there to benefit a club as well.

An £8m release clause seemed very low considering the fee's PL clubs are paying for talented Championship players these days. He may just walked away, but there was never any guarantee his next club could have offered him the same as what we did at 16/17.

He wasn’t James Maddison when he signed the contract. At the time he signed it, £8m would have been an excellent fee for us - our record sale, for a player on the fringes of the first team.

Yeah, once he had developed we could probably have got a lot more for him without the clause. But better to get £8m than the EPPP minimum.


Yep, this! Bearing in mind as well that any EPP compensation would have had to be split with Chelsea and Man City.

The number of Captain Hindsights on Olise is frankly boring.
Facts are (a) the club recognised his potential when Chekski didn't
(b) the club persuaded a clearly extremely talented and ambitious young man to sign a second contract that made it possible for us to get I think a record fee.

Without those people at the club, we wouldn't have had him for a year and a half in the senior team, and we wouldn't have £8m.

Even more importantly - There is plenty evidence that Olise wanted to get to the PL as quickly as possible. There is ZERO EVIDENCE that improved pay or performance fees would have made the slightest modicum of difference to him - let alone to his agent who would have been licking his lips at PL fees. And ABSOLUTELY ZERO EVIDENCE Olise would have been willing to sign ANY OTHER contract.

Move on, for the love of Coppell.

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