BFTG - Weds H

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Jagermesiter1871
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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Jagermesiter1871 » 01 Sep 2018 22:12

Snowflake Royal
John Madejski's Wallet
windermereROYAL Totally agree, changing the manager every season hasn`t helped in the slightest as it since relegation from the PL. in fact it`s got worse, we really need to keep faith, I`m confident he`s the right man for the job.

Nah bollox, the problem is replacing failing managers with managers who play the exact same style of crap. Ex coaches who subscribe to some modern (now already outdated) style of possession football. Replace sh*t with identikit sh*t and nothing will ever change.

Hence why I was dead against Clement in the first place

That might be relevant if Clement still had us pissing about with it at the back in a 4-3-3 / 4-5-1. But he doesn't. We're far more direct than we've been in years and we're playing two upfront with wingers. The problem is we're utter shit. It's got sweet FA to do with what style we play.

Good managers are hard to find. Good managers who can come in and turn a clusterfuck around on a budget are like hens teeth.

How many managers do we have to go through before we realise the problem is not the manager?[/quote]

Stop stealing my words Ian. People are going to get us confused and I certainly don't want that.

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Pandoras Box » 01 Sep 2018 22:13

Observations.
1. Be it the style or the players’ psyche, the amount of damage Stam has done to this club is unbelievable.

2. To put Gunter (who has played left back many a time) in the spot the more superior Yiadom has made his own recently, puts a serious question mark for me against Clement.
Surely he would have seen, as a lot of us have, that Yiadom has been a revelation and mainstay at right back, why would you decide to replace him? That is just stupidity and a lesson in how to demotivate your staff.

3. Yes, he (we) got the one win against Birmingham in the cup but that is an 18th position team who fielded 11 second team players. Well done.

4. Controversial - but if Kelly wasn’t ‘one of our own’ (yawn) would he even be considered in a championship midfield?

5. Has Mannone ever saved a shot from further than 10 yards out?

Lastly, Why is Blackett a full back? He has great technical skill, brings the ball forward and crosses well.
He’s relatively tall and can tackle - why isn’t he a midfielder?

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Sep 2018 22:14

We can't. The problems have been building for over five years. The players are crap, or mentally weak or both. Everyone at the club is used to losing, every other team knows we're a soft touch. There's no belief in the stands or on the pitch, but I still doubt the players realise that six games in and they've all but confirmed they're in a relegation fight. They didn't work it out after 40 last season. The management structure is a mess. We overpay our players. Give shit players long expensive contracts and fritter away thousands on players who will obviously never amount to anything.

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Jagermesiter1871 » 01 Sep 2018 22:15

BR0B0T
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John Madejski's Wallet Nah bollox, the problem is replacing failing managers with managers who play the exact same style of crap. Ex coaches who subscribe to some modern (now already outdated) style of possession football. Replace sh*t with identikit sh*t and nothing will ever change.

Hence why I was dead against Clement in the first place

That might be relevant if Clement still had us pissing about with it at the back in a 4-3-3 / 4-5-1. But he doesn't. We're far more direct than we've been in years and we're playing two upfront with wingers. The problem is we're utter shit. It's got sweet FA to do with what style we play.

Good managers are hard to find. Good managers who can come in and turn a clusterfuck around on a budget are like hens teeth.

How many managers do we have to go through before we realise the problem is not the manager?


what is the problem from your perspective?

how can we fix it?


Play a consistent back 4. Play Swift along with the Iranian (assuming he is defensive and can break play up) or I guess Bacuna is closest to that. Front 2 of McNulty and Bod/Baldock. Barrow and Meite (will have to do for the moment - ideally a better winger perhaps one of the million injured).

I think then it's just a matter of waiting for things to click.

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Sep 2018 22:19

Pandoras Box Observations.
1. Be it the style or the players’ psyche, the amount of damage Stam has done to this club is unbelievable.

2. To put Gunter (who has played left back many a time) in the spot the more superior Yiadom has made his own recently, puts a serious question mark for me against Clement.
Surely he would have seen, as a lot of us have, that Yiadom has been a revelation and mainstay at right back, why would you decide to replace him? That is just stupidity and a lesson in how to demotivate your staff.

3. Yes, he (we) got the one win against Birmingham in the cup but that is an 18th position team who fielded 11 second team players. Well done.

4. Controversial - but if Kelly wasn’t ‘one of our own’ (yawn) would he even be considered in a championship midfield?

5. Has Mannone ever saved a shot from further than 10 yards out?

Lastly, Why is Blackett a full back? He has great technical skill, brings the ball forward and crosses well.
He’s relatively tall and can tackle - why isn’t he a midfielder?

4. If his competition is Meyler, Bacuna, Swift and Edwards, absolutely.

Blackett really doesn't have what it takes to play in midfield. He's clumsy and lacks awareness. He's never going to cope trying to deal with opposition players all round him. He can barely cope with them just in front of him at times. Passing and touch isn't up to it either
Last edited by Snowflake Royal on 01 Sep 2018 22:20, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Jagermesiter1871 » 01 Sep 2018 22:20

Pandoras Box Observations.
1. Be it the style or the players’ psyche, the amount of damage Stam has done to this club is unbelievable.

2. To put Gunter (who has played left back many a time) in the spot the more superior Yiadom has made his own recently, puts a serious question mark for me against Clement.
Surely he would have seen, as a lot of us have, that Yiadom has been a revelation and mainstay at right back, why would you decide to replace him? That is just stupidity and a lesson in how to demotivate your staff.

3. Yes, he (we) got the one win against Birmingham in the cup but that is an 18th position team who fielded 11 second team players. Well done.

4. Controversial - but if Kelly wasn’t ‘one of our own’ (yawn) would he even be considered in a championship midfield?

5. Has Mannone ever saved a shot from further than 10 yards out?

Lastly, Why is Blackett a full back? He has great technical skill, brings the ball forward and crosses well.
He’s relatively tall and can tackle - why isn’t he a midfielder?


1 - Completely agreed

2 - I thought Yiadom looked good on the left and Gunter is possibly an improvement on Blackett. Possibly but I can understand why he did it.

3 - meh

4 - No - he's useless. What does he actually offer....

5 - Thought he pulled off a few big saves today.

(6) - Possibly worth a go. Can't be much worse.

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Getthebeerens » 01 Sep 2018 22:43

Well what a load of rubbish that was. An all to common performance at the Mad Stad Over the last 12 months. We made Sheffield Wednesday look like Barcelona at times today. I get that we will play bad and I get that we will lose games, I would just love to see some players moaning at each other perhaps showing frustration at each other or demanding more from there team mates.

Sadly until we get things right off the pitch I can’t see us improving on it. Simply put we have assembled a bloated squad not good enough for the Championship that is stuck in a habit of losing. Maybe relegation is what this club needs to give it the kick start to go forward again ?

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by NewCorkSeth » 01 Sep 2018 22:44

I know it's out of vogue with the fan base at large at the moment but I think we should seriously consider a switch back to a 4-5-1.

Reason no. 1: We have the players for a decent back 4 but would struggle for depth/coverage if we had to play 3 at the back.

Reason no. 2: Today had to have shown to the fan base at large we cannot play with only 2 Cms. They leave our entire defense exposed currently. A midfield 3 of Bacuna Swift and 1 other (not Kelly or Edwards) would be much stronger in both defense and attack than we are capable of showing in a 4-4-2.

Reason no. 3: Despite the mass calls for a new striker this summer and us signing 2 they have both been disappointing. If Baldock is the better of himself and McNulty then, on current evidence, playing 2 strikers is a wasted starting position. Start Bod and make the other 2 earn their minutes.

Reason no. 4: We tried but we have been shite at playing it long. Gunter pulled off the best long pass of the season today and it was a crossfield to Barrow(I think). We need to move back to a formation where our wingers can play more advanced again. Barrow is wasted in a 4-4-2.

Reason no. 5: It can't get much worse..

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Lower West » 01 Sep 2018 22:45

Denver Royal We finished 3rd two seasons ago.


Other teams have progressed forwards since then.


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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Ascotexgunner » 01 Sep 2018 22:51

So has anyone posted a "things looked promising today, I'm confident we will finish mid table" or "We seem to be improving" or "Clement looks like he's improving things" crap?
I couldnt listen to BBCRB on the way home it was just to depressing and now doubt full of ostriches in denial that we are really sh*t and heading to Wycombe next season (that's if Wycombe don't go up or get relegated)

Going back to the twitter thing with the Clement/Bent spat. Clement was so classless with the response.....Darren Bent was clearly right about Clements training methods though, you just wonder what they do in training sometimes. There's nothing new in the way we play, we can't take corners and there's no patterns of play that show improvement. The mans a charlatan.
Last edited by Ascotexgunner on 01 Sep 2018 23:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Jagermesiter1871 » 01 Sep 2018 22:58

Ascotexgunner So has anyone posted a "things looked promising today, I'm confident we will finish mid table" or "We seem to be improving" or "Clement looks like he's improving things" crap?
I couldnt listen to BBCRB on the way home it was just to depressing and now doubt full of ostriches in denial that we are really sh*t and heading to Wycombe next season (that's if Wycombe don't go up or get relegated)


Ooo Wycombe away would actually be a right good laugh.

EDIT: Just had a look at the league one table and genuinely think it would be decent. Oxford and Wycombe away and tons of Southern teams, not based in desolate dystopian post-industrial towns, especially compared to that of the Championship. I'm sold.
Last edited by Jagermesiter1871 on 01 Sep 2018 23:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Ascotexgunner » 01 Sep 2018 23:07

Jagermesiter1871
Ascotexgunner So has anyone posted a "things looked promising today, I'm confident we will finish mid table" or "We seem to be improving" or "Clement looks like he's improving things" crap?
I couldnt listen to BBCRB on the way home it was just to depressing and now doubt full of ostriches in denial that we are really sh*t and heading to Wycombe next season (that's if Wycombe don't go up or get relegated)


Ooo Wycombe away would actually be a right good laugh.

EDIT: Just had a look at the league one table and genuinely think it would be decent. Oxford and Wycombe away and tons of Southern teams, not based in desolate dystopian post-industrial towns, compared to that of the Championship. I'm sold.


Their away end is a bit pokey though.....bit of a squeeze. Still could probably get a few tickets in their end on the terrace. That would be good.

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by CountryRoyal » 01 Sep 2018 23:18

Jagermesiter1871
Ascotexgunner So has anyone posted a "things looked promising today, I'm confident we will finish mid table" or "We seem to be improving" or "Clement looks like he's improving things" crap?
I couldnt listen to BBCRB on the way home it was just to depressing and now doubt full of ostriches in denial that we are really sh*t and heading to Wycombe next season (that's if Wycombe don't go up or get relegated)


Ooo Wycombe away would actually be a right good laugh.

EDIT: Just had a look at the league one table and genuinely think it would be decent. Oxford and Wycombe away and tons of Southern teams, not based in desolate dystopian post-industrial towns, compared to that of the Championship. I'm sold.


I’ve been saying for years I wouldn’t mind relegation (from a fan point of view). Let’s just get it over and done with, can’t we just forfeit the season and save a shed load of time, energy and emotion?

As someone said recently watching Reading has become a chaw. Some weird misguided self imposed obligation thinly wrapped in a delicate fragile ounce of hope and optimism which is inevitably shattered the moment I see the team sheet and the same old shite that put in the last laboured performance.

They’re all pcunts. Ilori Moore and Yiadom are the only ones I want to see play for us, I don’t care if we lose every game 30 nil. Every other player through lack of ability or application is an embarrassment to the themselves, the club, and even the profession. Would they pay to watch the pile of cat spunk that we do, week in, week out?

Then whole club is rotten and has fallen a million miles away from where it once was. I think we should knock it down and start again, where’s the master reset?


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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Ascotexgunner » 01 Sep 2018 23:29

CountryRoyal
Jagermesiter1871
Ascotexgunner So has anyone posted a "things looked promising today, I'm confident we will finish mid table" or "We seem to be improving" or "Clement looks like he's improving things" crap?
I couldnt listen to BBCRB on the way home it was just to depressing and now doubt full of ostriches in denial that we are really sh*t and heading to Wycombe next season (that's if Wycombe don't go up or get relegated)


Ooo Wycombe away would actually be a right good laugh.

EDIT: Just had a look at the league one table and genuinely think it would be decent. Oxford and Wycombe away and tons of Southern teams, not based in desolate dystopian post-industrial towns, compared to that of the Championship. I'm sold.


I’ve been saying for years I wouldn’t mind relegation (from a fan point of view). Let’s just get it over and done with, can’t we just forfeit the season and save a shed load of time, energy and emotion?

As someone said recently watching Reading has become a chaw. Some weird misguided self imposed obligation thinly wrapped in a delicate fragile ounce of hope and optimism which is inevitably shattered the moment I see the team sheet and the same old shite that put in the last laboured performance.

They’re all pcunts. Ilori Moore and Yiadom are the only ones I want to see play for us, I don’t care if we lose every game 30 nil. Every other player through lack of ability or application is an embarrassment to the themselves, the club, and even the profession. Would they pay to watch the pile of cat spunk that we do, week in, week out?

Then whole club is rotten and has fallen a million miles away from where it once was. I think we should knock it down and start again, where’s the master reset?


When you put it like that it seems appealing. This has to be some of the worst times at the club for many a years. I'm really losing interest. There are 2 ways of looking at relegation also. If we go down it could be positive. Might get a new owner,CEO and manager. The other side is we may have the same owner,CEO and god forbid, keep the shitty manager. I fear it maybe the latter and the problems continue next season. Gourleys next brainwave will be to appoint Steve McClaren now doubt.

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Elm Park Kid » 01 Sep 2018 23:41

Denver Royal
Elm Park Kid Even if we had a triumvirate of Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger and 2005 Steve Coppell as joint managers, this squad would still struggle to be more than mid-table.

We have exactly one defender who is above average for the league. A few promising midfielders but none of them effective as a DM.

We finished 3rd two seasons ago.


Right - we went on an extremely good run. We also had:

Al Habsi
A younger McShane
Fit Obita
Berens
Danny WIlliams
Fit Gareth McCleary
Kermogant
Grabban
Rakels

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by alfie9 » 01 Sep 2018 23:58

I think this is Mannone's level but he's way out of form. Giving Sam Walker league games will probably cause problems in the dressing room but that's clearly already a mess. Would like to see him given a run soon.

Gunter... I can't take it anymore. Yiadom is probably our best player so far and is suited to the RIGHT side and Gunter waltzes in and takes it from him based on what? Experience? If you're going to drop Blackett, who I feel deserves to stay in the team, play Gunter on the left and let Yiadom go forward.

Moore and Ilori are fine. Yiadom was fine. Honestly our whole defense is the highlight of this team. Blackett(Obita soon?)-Moore-Ilori-Yiadom is a group I would try to keep together. It's the piss poor midfield and ZERO cover that's letting them down.

Bacuna would be good in a Brian team. The rest of our hapless midfield is letting him down.

Meyler is past it and playing him in a two man midfield is beyond a joke. He could still have a role for us in a 3 man midfield. Aluko, on the other hand, can piss off. What an awful waste of space he is. 8 million. Our academy wingers would offer more and that would cost us a grand total of zero pounds :evil:

I haven't seen good Liam Kelly in a while but I thought he made a comeback today. Very positive on the ball and playing with urgency. If he would only try doing that when we aren't 2-0 down. Sims is just about as good as you'd expect

Barrow is stilli njured/not math fit and it's painfully obvious.

Without Bodvarsson in the team we're going t average less than a goal per game. Meite does not work as a target man, he's got very poor touch. Baldock and McNulty... if they don't figure it out we are screwed

Novakovich scored again in the Eredivisie tonight.

I miss winning.

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by leon » 02 Sep 2018 00:23

We’ve replaced an inexperienced manager with little support with an inexperienced manager with little support.

This time last year I was banging on about how the team had absolutely no balance and how the manager seemingly totally didn’t get that.

We are still in the same position.

We still don’t have an effective midfield shield and we don’t have a balanced left and right that works effectively in defence and attack.

Up front, Jesus who knows.

I thought Clement was the wrong appointment at the time and I’m convinced he still is.

Not enough experience or intellect to do the job.

We either needed a steady experienced manager to organise the team to actually stop just getting beaten constantly or a young manager with some ideas and energy to shake the club out of the shit we’re in.

No, we got Clement. I’ve wanted him to prove me wrong but so far he’s been an absolute failure.

He’s not good enough.

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Zip » 02 Sep 2018 00:24

bobby1413 Seriously, 6 games... no wins... ????

SIX GAMES...

I haven't a clue where one will come from.

Also it is depressing how pooor our attendence and atmosphere is. Club 1871 doesn't help, but it's not the issue.

THe entire west stand seems deserted, maybe 30-40% populated. The North around 30% populated. Just seems to be so sparse. Depressing.


Yet down to around 14,300 today on a glorious afternoon for football. What will we get for Norwich in midweek later on in the month? Maybe 12,000? It’s a sign of the future unless Clement turns this around very soon. Sub 10,000 attendances May become a regular feature the way things are going.

The thing is it’s not enjoyable. The first sixty minutes today was just dreadful. This slow tempo stuff has to end. It’s killing any atmosphere there is.

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by Zip » 02 Sep 2018 00:32

NewCorkSeth I know it's out of vogue with the fan base at large at the moment but I think we should seriously consider a switch back to a 4-5-1.

Reason no. 1: We have the players for a decent back 4 but would struggle for depth/coverage if we had to play 3 at the back.

Reason no. 2: Today had to have shown to the fan base at large we cannot play with only 2 Cms. They leave our entire defense exposed currently. A midfield 3 of Bacuna Swift and 1 other (not Kelly or Edwards) would be much stronger in both defense and attack than we are capable of showing in a 4-4-2.

Reason no. 3: Despite the mass calls for a new striker this summer and us signing 2 they have both been disappointing. If Baldock is the better of himself and McNulty then, on current evidence, playing 2 strikers is a wasted starting position. Start Bod and make the other 2 earn their minutes.

Reason no. 4: We tried but we have been shite at playing it long. Gunter pulled off the best long pass of the season today and it was a crossfield to Barrow(I think). We need to move back to a formation where our wingers can play more advanced again. Barrow is wasted in a 4-4-2.

Reason no. 5: It can't get much worse..


The trouble with 4/5/1 is we don’t have a striker of Nicky Forster’s class to play that role. None of our strikers are anywhere near capable of playing alone upfront so where would the goals come from. I do agree though that we cannot play with just two central midfielders because the lot of them are so poor. I don’t know what the answer is or where the first win is coming.

The other thing is that Clement was totally non commital when asked about if he was getting enough support from the boardroom. That’s not a good sign. Rightly or wrongly I can see him being gone if things don’t improve in the next few weeks.

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Re: BFTG - Weds H

by leon » 02 Sep 2018 00:37

Zip
NewCorkSeth I know it's out of vogue with the fan base at large at the moment but I think we should seriously consider a switch back to a 4-5-1.

Reason no. 1: We have the players for a decent back 4 but would struggle for depth/coverage if we had to play 3 at the back.

Reason no. 2: Today had to have shown to the fan base at large we cannot play with only 2 Cms. They leave our entire defense exposed currently. A midfield 3 of Bacuna Swift and 1 other (not Kelly or Edwards) would be much stronger in both defense and attack than we are capable of showing in a 4-4-2.

Reason no. 3: Despite the mass calls for a new striker this summer and us signing 2 they have both been disappointing. If Baldock is the better of himself and McNulty then, on current evidence, playing 2 strikers is a wasted starting position. Start Bod and make the other 2 earn their minutes.

Reason no. 4: We tried but we have been shite at playing it long. Gunter pulled off the best long pass of the season today and it was a crossfield to Barrow(I think). We need to move back to a formation where our wingers can play more advanced again. Barrow is wasted in a 4-4-2.

Reason no. 5: It can't get much worse..


The trouble with 4/5/1 is we don’t have a striker of Nicky Forster’s class to play that role. None of our strikers are anywhere near capable of playing alone upfront so where would the goals come from. I do agree though that we cannot play with just two central midfielders because the lot of them are so poor. I don’t know what the answer is or where the first win is coming.

The other thing is that Clement was totally non commital when asked about if he was getting enough support from the boardroom. That’s not a good sign. Rightly or wrongly I can see him being gone if things don’t improve in the next few weeks.


I’m sorry, but he’s paid to deal with what he’s got. Like any manager in any organisation.

And he’s got some decent players. Just not in all positions.

Phil Parkinson (for example) kept an utterly shit transfer embargoed Bolton up who seem to be prospering this season.

It’s just about management.

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