Clement

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Clement in or out

Poll ended at 02 Oct 2018 15:29
Out
35
25%
In
68
49%
Out but in a funny accent
3
2%
Oxf*rd off Maff
17
12%
Ian Royal
16
12%
 
Total votes: 139
sandman
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Re: Clement

by sandman » 20 Sep 2018 08:36

Dr_Hfuhruhurr If we sack Clement now, itll be like McDermott's first sacking - the manager being a fall guy for the failings of the other non-player staff. If any non-playing staff should be the first to go, its Tevreden. We need somebody at board level, or one level below, who has experience in building a squad in the Championship. Not similar experience, but this exact experience. We cant keep gambling in the transfer windows because we are a club who has no idea what the first XI is. Lets work on that first, and get the scouting/DOF in place who can deliver that. Relatively speaking, Clement is pretty blameless for our current predicament.We dont have 11 players to form a squad from. Replace him with our current set up, and we'll just be calling for the next manager's head in 6 months/1 years time.


Tevreden should definitely go. Should have been gone weeks ago...

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Re: Clement

by Hound » 20 Sep 2018 08:37

The first 30 yesterday was absolutely telling about some of the players at the club. Could tell on the post match interview how angry Clement was about it

But a) it’s not the first time and it’s up to Clement to ensure it doesn’t happen
b) heads have to roll after it. Aluko has to go. Gunter likewise. Kelly, Swift and Bacuna need a total dressing down and told they will be dropped indefinitely if it happens again (tbf they all played better 2nd half but was damage had been done)

I’d say the other players at least gave it their all, despite some poor displays

Whether PC is the right man to do it - I have my doubts, nice guy and speaks sense but hardly scary - we will soon find out

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Stranded
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Re: Clement

by Stranded » 20 Sep 2018 08:42

Hound The first 30 yesterday was absolutely telling about some of the players at the club. Could tell on the post match interview how angry Clement was about it

But a) it’s not the first time and it’s up to Clement to ensure it doesn’t happen
b) heads have to roll after it. Aluko has to go. Gunter likewise. Kelly, Swift and Bacuna need a total dressing down and told they will be dropped indefinitely if it happens again (tbf they all played better 2nd half but was damage had been done)

I’d say the other players at least gave it their all, despite some poor displays

Whether PC is the right man to do it - I have my doubts, nice guy and speaks sense but hardly scary - we will soon find out


Agreed he was livid and rightly so, think it lead to the much improved 2nd half. If we hadn't had the collective brain fart 30 sec after equalising, we would have won but hey ho. Agreed team needs a massive refresh, I would like to see this on Saturday:

Walker

Yiadom
Ilori
Moore
Blackett/Richards (whoever is fit)

Barrow
Ezatolahi
Rihnomota
Sims

Bod
Baldock

Sub bench to include a few U23s (Barrett, Loader) and John O'Shea.

May end up with the same end result but a fresh CM can only be a good thing and see what Sims can do from the off.

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Re: Clement

by CountryRoyal » 20 Sep 2018 08:53

Top Flight Clement is the solution not the problem.

He needs time to fix everything that is wrong with the squad. The size of the squad, the wrong blend of players, the fat contracts.

It's just pathetic to talk about ousting the guy after he has had one transfer window. I think he has shown that he understands the problems. He is working on the solutions. But this ship cannot be turned around quickly. It needs hard work, Patience, understanding from us fans and our continued support. Let's just get behind him and support him to sort everything out.


Consistently picking Gunter over Yiadom at right back suggests quite the opposite tbh.

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Re: Clement

by NewCorkSeth » 20 Sep 2018 08:54

CountryRoyal
Top Flight Clement is the solution not the problem.

He needs time to fix everything that is wrong with the squad. The size of the squad, the wrong blend of players, the fat contracts.

It's just pathetic to talk about ousting the guy after he has had one transfer window. I think he has shown that he understands the problems. He is working on the solutions. But this ship cannot be turned around quickly. It needs hard work, Patience, understanding from us fans and our continued support. Let's just get behind him and support him to sort everything out.


Consistently picking Gunter over Yiadom at right back suggests quite the opposite tbh.

+1000000000


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Re: Clement

by leon » 20 Sep 2018 08:59

NewCorkSeth
CountryRoyal
Top Flight Clement is the solution not the problem.

He needs time to fix everything that is wrong with the squad. The size of the squad, the wrong blend of players, the fat contracts.

It's just pathetic to talk about ousting the guy after he has had one transfer window. I think he has shown that he understands the problems. He is working on the solutions. But this ship cannot be turned around quickly. It needs hard work, Patience, understanding from us fans and our continued support. Let's just get behind him and support him to sort everything out.


Consistently picking Gunter over Yiadom at right back suggests quite the opposite tbh.

+1000000000


Well quite.

It’s all very well going on the radio being all cross but if he did his job properly he wouldn’t need to.

I think he’s used to being an assistant and as a result isn’t able to be a strong willed leader. The players aren’t motivated by him.

A decent manager would have whipped them up to start the game a furious pace - absolutely got into Norwich and set the tone for the game.

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Re: Clement

by Ranty McRantface » 20 Sep 2018 09:00

I'm getting a little sick and tired of fans blaming easy targets or players they don't like to be quite honest. Lack of passion and commitment wasn't the main problem and nor was it wide spread amongst the team.

I see Kelly and Swift are getting blamed again and I can't see why. If a player is trying to make something happen and it doesn't come off that is trying and just not coming off. Kelly and Swift were running around closing down a lot lastnight and I think Kelly covered more ground than most on the pitch during the time he was on. Yes the 1st half wasn't great but at least they were trying to make things happen. The manager although rightly pissed off with losing after a win and the manner in which we have, will not turn the teams fortunes around when most of them are actually trying. They need their confidence back and with this lot an arm over a shoulder rather than a slap to both sides of the face would do wonders. You saw glimpses of that belief again in the 2nd half when Kelly and Swift were making more positive runs or passes.

The only players I would question would be Aluko and Gunter. When Aluko lost the ball he wasn't always trying to win it back. Just having a hissy fit and going through the motions.

Gunter was also shocking lastnight. He was not mentally ready for the game at all. He just seemed to be a yard off the pace. Lost his man for the first and you could tell by his reaction that he knew he messed up. It seems like everything he did was a reaction or him caught in 2 minds.

Clement said he wanted leaders over the summer and he went for experience over youth. So far the experienced guys have done absolutely nothing for us and the worst part is that the one person they could turn to (Clement!) when things are looking tough, has absolutely zero leadership or inspirational skills to get their confidence back.

He was about 3 or 4 games left and hopefully he will go with whoever wanted him for the job.

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Re: Clement

by leon » 20 Sep 2018 09:04

Ranty McRantface I'm getting a little sick and tired of fans blaming easy targets or players they don't like to be quite honest. Lack of passion and commitment wasn't the main problem and nor was it wide spread amongst the team.

I see Kelly and Swift are getting blamed again and I can't see why. If a player is trying to make something happen and it doesn't come off that is trying and just not coming off. Kelly and Swift were running around closing down a lot lastnight and I think Kelly covered more ground than most on the pitch during the time he was on. Yes the 1st half wasn't great but at least they were trying to make things happen. The manager although rightly pissed off with losing after a win and the manner in which we have, will not turn the teams fortunes around when most of them are actually trying. They need their confidence back and with this lot an arm over a shoulder rather than a slap to both sides of the face would do wonders. You saw glimpses of that belief again in the 2nd half when Kelly and Swift were making more positive runs or passes.

The only players I would question would be Aluko and Gunter. When Aluko lost the ball he wasn't always trying to win it back. Just having a hissy fit and going through the motions.

Gunter was also shocking lastnight. He was not mentally ready for the game at all. He just seemed to be a yard off the pace. Lost his man for the first and you could tell by his reaction that he knew he messed up. It seems like everything he did was a reaction or him caught in 2 minds.

Clement said he wanted leaders over the summer and he went for experience over youth. So far the experienced guys have done absolutely nothing for us and the worst part is that the one person they could turn to (Clement!) when things are looking tough, has absolutely zero leadership or inspirational skills to get their confidence back.

He was about 3 or 4 games left and hopefully he will go with whoever wanted him for the job.


Not right. Aluko and Gunter are getting blamed, rightly.

Swift and Kelly are getting criticised because of their contribution and strength on the ball which was in Kelly’s case minimal.

Clement is getting blamed for playing yet again an unbalanced side.

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Re: Clement

by NewCorkSeth » 20 Sep 2018 09:06

leon
NewCorkSeth
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Consistently picking Gunter over Yiadom at right back suggests quite the opposite tbh.

+1000000000


Well quite.

It’s all very well going on the radio being all cross but if he did his job properly he wouldn’t need to.

I think he’s used to being an assistant and as a result isn’t able to be a strong willed leader. The players aren’t motivated by him.

A decent manager would have whipped them up to start the game a furious pace - absolutely got into Norwich and set the tone for the game.

I never want to hear "there is plenty of games left" out of his mouth again. Just focus on the next game and stop the lads from think that everything will come right in the end. It's all well and good saying "we were shite in the first half" but following it up with a "but it doesn't matter as there is plenty of points to play for" isn't going to help stop the rot.


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Re: Clement

by Hound » 20 Sep 2018 09:12

First 30 I didn’t see Swift or Kelly try to make anything happen

I’m a Swift fan, also rate Bacuna. Kelly a bit meh on. But I thought all 3 were terrible first half. It’s not just covering a lot of ground, it’s about aggressively trying to get the ball back, pressing as a unit and being brave with the ball. They did none of them. Just covering a lot of ground and calling that effort? I could do that, in fact I’d probably cover more ground than anyone in the side if that’s all that’s required

There was clearly an improvement after a half time bollocking and Swift esp had a good 30 mins. Bacuna I also thought did a reasonable job and kept things moving. But the first half was unforgivable

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Re: Clement

by Sutekh » 20 Sep 2018 09:25

Hound First 30 I didn’t see Swift or Kelly try to make anything happen

I’m a Swift fan, also rate Bacuna. Kelly a bit meh on. But I thought all 3 were terrible first half. It’s not just covering a lot of ground, it’s about aggressively trying to get the ball back, pressing as a unit and being brave with the ball. They did none of them. Just covering a lot of ground and calling that effort? I could do that, in fact I’d probably cover more ground than anyone in the side if that’s all that’s required

There was clearly an improvement after a half time bollocking and Swift esp had a good 30 mins. Bacuna I also thought did a reasonable job and kept things moving. But the first half was unforgivable


Manager said the same post match. He thought the start was poor and certainly not what he had wanted to see. I know he doesn't help himself, imo, with some of his team selections but when you've tried to set the players up and told them what you want and they still fail to listen there's little you're able to do.

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Re: Clement

by genome » 20 Sep 2018 09:35

I honestly don't think a manager change will help really. He's not beyond reproach by any means, but the problems stem from awful decision-making at the top, and now we're left with a broken squad with some individual talent but who just don't work collectively. Yes, you could argue that's the manager's job to bring them together, but you've seen this on and off since we were relegated in 2013, with several different managers.

The issue lies deeper than just blaming the manager. A big part of me thinks we need to go down before this will get better.

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Re: Clement

by andrew1957 » 20 Sep 2018 09:58

genome I honestly don't think a manager change will help really. He's not beyond reproach by any means, but the problems stem from awful decision-making at the top, and now we're left with a broken squad with some individual talent but who just don't work collectively. Yes, you could argue that's the manager's job to bring them together, but you've seen this on and off since we were relegated in 2013, with several different managers.

The issue lies deeper than just blaming the manager. A big part of me thinks we need to go down before this will get better.


I agree. I am not sure that any manager can improve this situation now. The players are mentally shot and conditioned to lose matches. The same happened to Sunderland the last few seasons where they just got worse and worse and even a manager with a good record like Coleman could not save them. They just needed to go down and regroup. I have the same feeling about the current situation. We have a lot of good players individually but gelling them as a team in the division will be hard. If Clement succeeds he will be a miracle worker in my opinion.

Having said that I saw quite a lot that was better last night. I actually thought Kelly was much better than recently and had a pretty decent game overall. The real problem is that to some extend Swift is a luxury player. When he had Danny Williams in the team to do the dirty work it freed him up to express himself. We have no Williams in the quad now. We have tried Bacuna, Van den Berg and Meyler but none have been as good at the defensive midfield role. I think that we can only afford to have one of Kelly and Swift playing right now.

I have been a Gunter supporter over the years and think he gets far too much stick but he was very poor last night. And Aluko is just very poor all the time. I can only think that he has it written into his contract that he will always play if fit. I feel a tad sorry for Meite. He is still very young and I think fans are expecting too much of him. At least he tries very hard but you have to say that Barrow and Sims were a huge improvement when they came on.

I also think that the increasingly toxic atmosphere at the Madstad cannot be helping the players either. There was so much negativity around me in the East Stand last night. I know it is frustrating when we keep losing but this cannot be helping the already mentally shot players.

Returning to Clement I really think the club should stand by him even if we go down. Then the decision can be made as to whether he is the right man to regroup this sorry squad and motivate them to get going again. Bringing in yet another manager now is very unlikely to improve the situation.


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Re: Clement

by leon » 20 Sep 2018 10:39

genome I honestly don't think a manager change will help really. He's not beyond reproach by any means, but the problems stem from awful decision-making at the top, and now we're left with a broken squad with some individual talent but who just don't work collectively. Yes, you could argue that's the manager's job to bring them together, but you've seen this on and off since we were relegated in 2013, with several different managers.

The issue lies deeper than just blaming the manager. A big part of me thinks we need to go down before this will get better.


Interesting point.

Adkins - not a fan but have some sympathy as the club was in absolute turmoil. He didn't help himself with constant shit flowing from his mouth and also being bright orange. In hindsight and based on the next few years, was a golden era.

Clarke - successful assistant managers don't always equal successful managers (see also Brian Kidd, Steve McClaren to a lesser extent) Clarke had little management experience and then he shot himself in the foot with Fulham.

McDermott - stitched up by the Russian. Only around for about 3 months.

Stam - no management experience which showed when his tactics got found out and he couldn't adapt the team.

Clement - successful assistant managers don't always equal successful managers.

So what's a common factor in all of that?

Lack of actual management experience maybe?

Conclusion? Bring in an experienced manager?

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Re: Clement

by Only one Trevor Morley » 20 Sep 2018 11:56

I like Clement as a person. He is honest. Not afraid of having a go at players. He comes across well on the radio.

But the reasons why I like him are the reasons he should go. I don't say that lightly. I have always been one of the give them a chance brigade.

essentially his media performances are hiding the fact that he has been singularly unable to impose a style of play on us since he took charge. the last manager who was unable to do that was Terry Bullivant

Can anyone explain to me what the style (or even the tactics) are of reading at the moment. he said that we would play differently this season as the last 8 games were different last year as it was all about getting a result. I have seen absolutely no change in the disjointed, haphazard approach to out play as under that 8 games.

From listening to his interviews I have gleaned that he likes his defences to be 'compact' and he wants us to play more attractive football. I see zero evidence of that. We are setting up at home as an away team. and guess what it doesn't work as teams get a goal and thenw e try and haul one back utilising a more defensive approach.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. The talk of 'margins' and keep doing the same ignores the need for a fundamental change of approach.

bent had a pop about Clement in relation to his man management skills and that he avoided confrontation. he certainly seems to avoid imposing his ideas on the player (albeit not consciously) they just don't get whatever he is asking to do. Why is that. I suspect he isn't that sure himself. I have noticed he actually chops and changes quite a bit (and Aluko aside) often responds to what we as fans want. that aint working either. Maybe he is just to defensive as an individual (note he couldn't avoid responding to Bent (on twitter) and lacks the courage to impose his own opinions

its a shame - but we will not stay up under him. Bring in Mick McCarthy and 4-4-2 asap.

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Re: Clement

by leon » 20 Sep 2018 12:20

Only one Trevor Morley I like Clement as a person. He is honest. Not afraid of having a go at players. He comes across well on the radio.

But the reasons why I like him are the reasons he should go. I don't say that lightly. I have always been one of the give them a chance brigade.

essentially his media performances are hiding the fact that he has been singularly unable to impose a style of play on us since he took charge. the last manager who was unable to do that was Terry Bullivant

Can anyone explain to me what the style (or even the tactics) are of reading at the moment. he said that we would play differently this season as the last 8 games were different last year as it was all about getting a result. I have seen absolutely no change in the disjointed, haphazard approach to out play as under that 8 games.

From listening to his interviews I have gleaned that he likes his defences to be 'compact' and he wants us to play more attractive football. I see zero evidence of that. We are setting up at home as an away team. and guess what it doesn't work as teams get a goal and thenw e try and haul one back utilising a more defensive approach.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. The talk of 'margins' and keep doing the same ignores the need for a fundamental change of approach.

bent had a pop about Clement in relation to his man management skills and that he avoided confrontation. he certainly seems to avoid imposing his ideas on the player (albeit not consciously) they just don't get whatever he is asking to do. Why is that. I suspect he isn't that sure himself. I have noticed he actually chops and changes quite a bit (and Aluko aside) often responds to what we as fans want. that aint working either. Maybe he is just to defensive as an individual (note he couldn't avoid responding to Bent (on twitter) and lacks the courage to impose his own opinions

its a shame - but we will not stay up under him. Bring in Mick McCarthy and 4-4-2 asap.


As soon as I saw you'd posted I knew it would be worth reading.

This is my suspicion. No 2 role is totally different to a manager. He lacks neither clear vision or a way (or the will) to implement it.

A really experienced (ex manager?) assistant could guide him in what he needed to do, (or a decent Director of Football) but then the same could be said about Stam. We seem to have made the same mistake again.

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Re: Clement

by WoodleyRoyal » 20 Sep 2018 15:10

here are a handful of out of work managers I would rather see in charge, that we could realistically get. All of which could do a better job.

Pardew
Allardyce
McCarthy
Bilic
Carvalhal
Quique Flores
Óscar García
Mark Warburton

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Re: Clement

by TheBaldOne » 20 Sep 2018 15:19

WoodleyRoyal here are a handful of out of work managers I would rather see in charge, that we could realistically get. All of which could do a better job.

Pardew
Allardyce
McCarthy
Bilic
Carvalhal
Quique Flores
Óscar García
Mark Warburton


McCarthy is the only one of these that I would take, apart from Allardyce/ Quique Floers who wouldn't come.

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Re: Clement

by Snowflake Royal » 20 Sep 2018 18:28

I understand the urge to blame the manager, after all Clement is the only person at the club we can actually do anything to get rid of as fans. I also accept that Clement is not doing a good job.

What I can no longer accept is blaming managers for the poor performance of the players. These players have had ample opportunity to perform under at least two and in many cases three or four different managers. They have failed nearly to a man. I'd expect the players to perform better than they are with no coaches or manager at all!

In my opinion you can't complain about the pitchside performance in one breath, followed by how angry Clement obviously was at it, and then reach the conclusion that it's him that has to go. As far as I can tell he's the one oxf*rd person at the club that gives a shit and IS trying.

The only continuity in poor performance is the players. There is only so long you can blame and sack managers before there is a clear common denominator on display and I've reached that point. I'm sickened by them. They can quite literally just oxf*rd off.

Play the Academy, we're going down anyway, at least it will be professional league experience whilst they can get it. Send a message to the poncy overpaid clowns in the first team.

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Re: Clement

by leon » 20 Sep 2018 19:21

Snowflake Royal I understand the urge to blame the manager, after all Clement is the only person at the club we can actually do anything to get rid of as fans. I also accept that Clement is not doing a good job.

What I can no longer accept is blaming managers for the poor performance of the players. These players have had ample opportunity to perform under at least two and in many cases three or four different managers. They have failed nearly to a man. I'd expect the players to perform better than they are with no coaches or manager at all!

In my opinion you can't complain about the pitchside performance in one breath, followed by how angry Clement obviously was at it, and then reach the conclusion that it's him that has to go. As far as I can tell he's the one oxf*rd person at the club that gives a shit and IS trying.

The only continuity in poor performance is the players. There is only so long you can blame and sack managers before there is a clear common denominator on display and I've reached that point. I'm sickened by them. They can quite literally just oxf*rd off.

Play the Academy, we're going down anyway, at least it will be professional league experience whilst they can get it. Send a message to the poncy overpaid clowns in the first team.


He keeps picking exactly the same underperforming players. Aluko, Gunter , Kelly, Swift, Bacuna that he gets cross with.

Being angry with your own team selection turning out the inevitable shit performances time after time can only last so long.

That’s the point.

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