by Snowflake Royal » 02 Feb 2019 17:47
by 72 bus » 02 Feb 2019 22:30
Snowflake Royal So I said on the Villa thread before the game, that we're getting to the point where Gomes is starting to have been here long enough to take a look at the team's form under him in comparison to what went before. So I thought I'd post up the numbers.
Obviously there's a bunch of different ways you can present stats and they're only part of the picture... I can honestly say I have no interest in trying to get a specific outcome with this. When Gomes was appointed there was a bunch of talk about how he could have little time to have an impact given we were in the festive slog, so I'm going to put his first two games under Marshall's caretaker stint to bring that up to 5, Gomes has had 5 games since then, and Clement did 20 which breaks down into 4 sets of 5, so there's a bit of symmetry.
Clement 1: W0, D2, L3, PPG 0.4, GD -3
Clement 2: W2, D1, L2, PPG 1.4, GD 2
Clement 3: W1, D0, L4, PPG 0.6, GD -5
Clement 4: W1, D3, L1, PPG 1.2, GD 0
Marshall *: W0, D2, L3, PPG 0.4, GD -4
Gomes___: W1, D2, L2, PPG 1.0, GD -2
Clement first 8______: W2, D2, L4, PPG 1.0, GD -9
Clement this season: W4, D6, L10, PPG 0.9, GD -6
Gomes Total________: W1, D3, L3, PPG 0.9, GD -3
So, without a doubt, Gomes has improved things on where we were when he started, but that's only because when Clement got sacked we completely fell to pieces worse than we'd been under Clement. Gomes is doing about as well as Clement was, which was heading pretty much straight for that knife edge of relegation around the 40 - 50 point mark.
At Denver's request I've included Clement's start last season as a comparison to Gomes, not quite the same number of games yet. Anything but a win next and it's a worse start for Gomes. Personally, I don't consider it very relevant as the circumstances are different and we're focused on this season, with Gomes brought in to improve on how Clement was doing at the end of his stint, not the beginning (although all of it was much of a muchness statswise).
For those of you who prefer six game form, I may well knock up something for that and update the Clement first 8 vs Gomes first 8 comparison after Wednesday.
So in summary, Gomes has steadied the ship from the horrendous disruption of Clement going, but that just holds us on course for possible / probable relegation. He needs to show a similar improvement to his current form to the one he showed to the Marshall caretaker period above if we want to have any confidence of staying up.
He seems nice, passionate and engaged. He's made some good moves to trim the squad and keep our options open with his signings. Got to deliver on the pitch though, because points wise it's not looking great.
by Snowflake Royal » 02 Feb 2019 22:40
by Lower West » 02 Feb 2019 22:55
by Tails » 03 Feb 2019 00:32
by Hound » 03 Feb 2019 08:23
Snowflake Royal With a bit of luck that will bring the results.
The bits I've caught have been slicker and more purposeful, but lacked success at either end.
by Snowflake Royal » 03 Feb 2019 08:26
HoundSnowflake Royal With a bit of luck that will bring the results.
The bits I've caught have been slicker and more purposeful, but lacked success at either end.
That was as good as I’ve seen us defensively for a while yesterday. Miazga looks a good signing and Moore was better
The lack of chance creation is the big worry for me. Gomes needs to solve that sooner rather than later
PPG etc considering, he has done ok, no more. The players look more comfortable on the ball and 80% of the stuff looks good. We look like we are capable of winning games
Will we stay up? I’m looking at that brutal run Rotherham have and hoping that’s where we make our gains. I think both Bolton and Ipswich are down
by Hound » 03 Feb 2019 09:18
by Snowflake Royal » 03 Feb 2019 10:11
Hound Yes it’s shit but the reality
My big hope is we get some momentum before the end of the year. Believe stats show that massively affects how you start the following season.
by leon » 03 Feb 2019 11:29
HoundSnowflake Royal With a bit of luck that will bring the results.
The bits I've caught have been slicker and more purposeful, but lacked success at either end.
That was as good as I’ve seen us defensively for a while yesterday. Miazga looks a good signing and Moore was better
The lack of chance creation is the big worry for me. Gomes needs to solve that sooner rather than later
PPG etc considering, he has done ok, no more. The players look more comfortable on the ball and 80% of the stuff looks good. We look like we are capable of winning games
Will we stay up? I’m looking at that brutal run Rotherham have and hoping that’s where we make our gains. I think both Bolton and Ipswich are down
by sandman » 03 Feb 2019 11:58
by leon » 03 Feb 2019 12:32
sandman Wins and losses don't matter to Reading fans.
by Mid Sussex Royal » 03 Feb 2019 13:08
by TiagoIlori » 03 Feb 2019 16:49
by Lower West » 03 Feb 2019 19:16
Mid Sussex Royal largely caused by Clement's dreadful summer signings.
by Snowflake Royal » 03 Feb 2019 21:44
TiagoIlori You are comparing apples and oranges.
Let’s look at our first 7 league games- 5 points
Gomes- 6 points
Clement vs sides played in comparison with Gomes: 4 points
Gomes: 6 points
Gomes played 6 of those games vs a top half side at the time with a team low on confidence who hadn’t won in 6 games and most of the games under Gomes were without all his signings. Clement had a squad who knew it was a fresh start this season and these were his signings. Gomes also has never managed in the UK, let alone second tier of English football. Most of our points under Clement seemed to come under a purple patch where we were hardly convincing, at least we can see what Gomes is trying to do.
For the love of god, please stop acting thick and get some perspective. Apart from the Swansea and perhaps the Derby game we felt unlucky not to win and that includes Man United who have really kicked on under their new manager.
by URZZZZ » 04 Feb 2019 00:31
TiagoIlori You are comparing apples and oranges.
Let’s look at our first 7 league games- 5 points
Gomes- 6 points
Clement vs sides played in comparison with Gomes: 4 points
Gomes: 6 points
Gomes played 6 of those games vs a top half side at the time with a team low on confidence who hadn’t won in 6 games and most of the games under Gomes were without all his signings. Clement had a squad who knew it was a fresh start this season and these were his signings. Gomes also has never managed in the UK, let alone second tier of English football. Most of our points under Clement seemed to come under a purple patch where we were hardly convincing, at least we can see what Gomes is trying to do.
For the love of god, please stop acting thick and get some perspective. Apart from the Swansea and perhaps the Derby game we felt unlucky not to win and that includes Man United who have really kicked on under their new manager.
by TiagoIlori » 04 Feb 2019 06:11
Snowflake RoyalTiagoIlori You are comparing apples and oranges.
Let’s look at our first 7 league games- 5 points
Gomes- 6 points
Clement vs sides played in comparison with Gomes: 4 points
Gomes: 6 points
Gomes played 6 of those games vs a top half side at the time with a team low on confidence who hadn’t won in 6 games and most of the games under Gomes were without all his signings. Clement had a squad who knew it was a fresh start this season and these were his signings. Gomes also has never managed in the UK, let alone second tier of English football. Most of our points under Clement seemed to come under a purple patch where we were hardly convincing, at least we can see what Gomes is trying to do.
For the love of god, please stop acting thick and get some perspective. Apart from the Swansea and perhaps the Derby game we felt unlucky not to win and that includes Man United who have really kicked on under their new manager.
I'm not trying to compare with Clement, it's about how we're doing under Gomes, which includes looking at what's gone before in the lead up to his arrival.
It's just a simple case of seeing how our form changes.
We had plenty of similar nearly results under Clement. Derby first game, Blackburn away etc and Stam at times for that matter, Fulham at home last season for example. Nearly doesn't get you points. All well and good if those nearlies become actualies but it's not happened yet. If it does, our results pick up and Gomes does exactly what I said is needed... he improves on this ok ish early form the same way he's improved on the caretaker phase.
by TiagoIlori » 04 Feb 2019 06:25
URZZZZTiagoIlori You are comparing apples and oranges.
Let’s look at our first 7 league games- 5 points
Gomes- 6 points
Clement vs sides played in comparison with Gomes: 4 points
Gomes: 6 points
Gomes played 6 of those games vs a top half side at the time with a team low on confidence who hadn’t won in 6 games and most of the games under Gomes were without all his signings. Clement had a squad who knew it was a fresh start this season and these were his signings. Gomes also has never managed in the UK, let alone second tier of English football. Most of our points under Clement seemed to come under a purple patch where we were hardly convincing, at least we can see what Gomes is trying to do.
For the love of god, please stop acting thick and get some perspective. Apart from the Swansea and perhaps the Derby game we felt unlucky not to win and that includes Man United who have really kicked on under their new manager.
Except Tuesday was a deserved result, we still wouldn't have scored now if we were playing from yesterday and even though we played well against QPR, they still had the better chances. Comparing Gomes' six games against the six games from Clement isn't a good indication either, look at how Bolton were flying at the start of the season to now
End of the day, Clement's six games at the start of his reign yielded more points than Gomes' did. These included Fulham, Cardiff and Villa away IIRC. People far too optimistic after a bunch of toothless attacking displays, we could very easily be 4 points off Rotherham this time next week considering our atrocious away record and Wigan's equally atrocious away record
But...we need to keep fighting, if there's one positive to take out of this, our defence is so much better, Blackett and Miazga were immense yesterday
by maffff » 04 Feb 2019 08:17
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