Next Season's Squad.

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NewCorkSeth
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 07 May 2019 08:53

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There seems to be at least one/two teams who get relegated from the champ who bounce straight back up, Barnsley this season, possibly Sunderland. All three teams relegated in 16/17 went straight back up in 17/18 and they all went on to get a higher points tally the second time round in the championship.

2004-2005
Gillingham, Forest, Rotherham - Luton, Hull, Sheffield Wed
2005-2006
Crewe, Millwall, Brighton - Southend, Colchester, Barnsley
2006-2007
Southend, Luton, Leeds - Scunthorpe, Bristol, Blackpool
2007-2008
Leicester, Scunthorpe, Colchester - Swansea, Forest, Doncaster
2008-2009
Norwich, Southampton, Charlton - Leicester, Peterborough, Scunthorpe
2009-2010
Sheffield Wed, Plymouth, Peterborough - Norwich, Leeds, Millwall
2010-2011
Preston, Sheffield United, Scunthorpe - Brighton, Southampton, Peterborough
2011-2012
Portsmouth, Coventry, Doncaster - Charlton, Sheffield Wed, Huddersfield
2012-2013
Peterborough, Wolves, Bristol City - Doncaster, Bournemouth, Yeovil
2013-2014
Doncaster, Barnsley, Yeovil - Wolves, Brentford, Rotherham
2014-2015
Millwall, Wigan, Blackpool - Bristol, MK Don's, Preston
2015-2016
Charlton, MK Don's, Bolton - Wigan, Burton, Barnsley
2016-2017
Blackburn, Wigan, Rotherham - Sheffield United, Bolton, Millwall

Gillingham - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 twice since.
Forest - 3 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Rotherham - 9 season to be promoted back, relegated to league 2 once in that time, relegated again after 3 seasons.
Crewe - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 twice since.
Millwall - 4 season to be promoted back, relegated again after 5 seasons.
Brighton - 5 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up and promoted since.
Southend - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
*Luton - Never promoted back, double relegated the following seasons after.
Leeds - 3 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Leicester - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up and promoted since.
Scunthorpe - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up 2 seasons, relegated to league 2 since.
Colchester - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 since
Norwich - Double promotion season after.
Southampton - 1 season to be promoted back, double promotion season after.
Charlton - 3 seasons to be promoted back, relegated after 4 seasons
Sheffield Wed - 2 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Plymouth - Never promoted back, relegated the season after.
Peterborough - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up for 2 seasons.
Preston - 4 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Sheffield United - 6 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since
Portsmouth - Never promoted back, double relegation season after.
Coventry - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
Doncaster - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up for 1 season, relegated to league 2 once since.
Wolves - 1 season to be promoted back, stayed up and promoted since.
Bristol City - 2 seasons to be promoted back, stayed up since.
Barnsley - 2 seasons to be promoted back, relegated again after 2 season.
Yeovil - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
Wigan - 1 season to be promoted back, relegated after 1 season, promoted again, relegated again. True yo-yo club.
Blackpool - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
MK Dons - Never promoted back, relegated to league 2 once since.
Bolton - 1 season to be promoted back.
Blackburn - 1 season to be promoted back.

So thats 11 teams (including Luton) yet to be promoted back out of 39, 13 have been relegated to league 2 after being relegated from the Championship and 10 have been relegated since being re-promoted.

Only 10 teams out of 39 have come back up and not been relegated yet.

oxf*rd this takes a long time to verify.

You look at many of the club's to sink lower and never come back and they're smaller than us or in greater financial dire straits. 1/4 without factoring that in is hardly the endless tail of inevitable woe many would paint.

But only 1/4 come back up and many of them are larger or have had major investment or a takeover. It's not the frolic in the park you seem to think it is either.

When 75% of the teams that have gone down either never get promoted back or are relegated shortly after being promoted back it shows that "go down to rebuild" is not a good idea.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 07 May 2019 10:09

Saw referenced elsewhere that the team that lined up on the first day of the season this year against Derby:

Mannone, Yiadom, Ilori, McShane, Richards, Meyler, Kelly, Aluko, Swift, Barrow, Bodvarsson

Can't imagine more than 2 of those will start the first game of next year (Yiadom+ 1 of Swift and Barrow my bet).

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by URZZZZ » 07 May 2019 10:37

Possibly Richards too - I think he’s been struggling with injuries for a while which is why he hasn’t been seen since February time

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Stranded » 07 May 2019 10:44

Hound Saw referenced elsewhere that the team that lined up on the first day of the season this year against Derby:

Mannone, Yiadom, Ilori, McShane, Richards, Meyler, Kelly, Aluko, Swift, Barrow, Bodvarsson

Can't imagine more than 2 of those will start the first game of next year (Yiadom+ 1 of Swift and Barrow my bet).


And probably should have won that game. Think Mannone throwing one in for Derby's equaliser could be one of this sliding doors moments. Derby never looked like scoring in that game - if we had gone on to win, we could be in a very different place now.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by leon » 07 May 2019 11:29

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Snowflake Royal Broadly, if not generous.

I feel like I've been saying every year for at least five years that we need to heavily cut the wage bill, for people to list a handful of players leaving, ignoring the incoming, and claiming that'll have done the job, only to find out 18 months later when the accounts are published that I wasn't far off.


You feel like that, because you honestly think you’re right all of the time and you know everything.

I’d be surprised if you didn’t think that.

Hey, how’s your 9 yr old son? You raising him to be like Daddy? Tell him I said Hi.


Weirdo.


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 07 May 2019 11:33

leon
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leon
You feel like that, because you honestly think you’re right all of the time and you know everything.

I’d be surprised if you didn’t think that.

Hey, how’s your 9 yr old son? You raising him to be like Daddy? Tell him I said Hi.


Weirdo.


Is there any context to that post that we haven't seen, or was it as creepy as it read?

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hendo » 07 May 2019 11:50

Stranded
Hound Saw referenced elsewhere that the team that lined up on the first day of the season this year against Derby:

Mannone, Yiadom, Ilori, McShane, Richards, Meyler, Kelly, Aluko, Swift, Barrow, Bodvarsson

Can't imagine more than 2 of those will start the first game of next year (Yiadom+ 1 of Swift and Barrow my bet).


And probably should have won that game. Think Mannone throwing one in for Derby's equaliser could be one of this sliding doors moments. Derby never looked like scoring in that game - if we had gone on to win, we could be in a very different place now.


+1 we played really well in that game and it was the first time in a long time that I came away properly angry at a defeat as we didn't deserve it.

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leon
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by leon » 07 May 2019 11:51

Hound
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Denver Royal Hey, how’s your 9 yr old son? You raising him to be like Daddy? Tell him I said Hi.


Weirdo.


Is there any context to that post that we haven't seen, or was it as creepy as it read?


Not that I'm aware of.

File under strange men on the internet.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Ascotexgunner » 07 May 2019 12:50

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Brain Traysers Our wages - £35m - 10th highest in league (above Leeds £31m and significantly higher than Sheff Utd £19m)

Ouch.
.
.
(Trivia: In 106 season, anyone know where we ranked in wages in Champ that season?)


Is it 10th though or is it that we are more transparent in our accounting?
How, for instance, how do Boro cunjour up over 50 mill for transfers when their attendance's arnt much better than ours. I do t even pretend to understand football finances but looking at the state some clubs are left in it seems their are a lot of owners who are dishonest and hiding numbers. We quote FFP but none of it makes sense.


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Stranded » 07 May 2019 12:53

Hendo
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Hound Saw referenced elsewhere that the team that lined up on the first day of the season this year against Derby:

Mannone, Yiadom, Ilori, McShane, Richards, Meyler, Kelly, Aluko, Swift, Barrow, Bodvarsson

Can't imagine more than 2 of those will start the first game of next year (Yiadom+ 1 of Swift and Barrow my bet).


And probably should have won that game. Think Mannone throwing one in for Derby's equaliser could be one of this sliding doors moments. Derby never looked like scoring in that game - if we had gone on to win, we could be in a very different place now.


+1 we played really well in that game and it was the first time in a long time that I came away properly angry at a defeat as we didn't deserve it.


Yep - whilst happy where we are now - that team played really well that night and were on course for a well deserved win until that moment - losing as we did damaged what was already brittle confidence that we didn't recover until Gomes came in.

If we'd won that game, I believe we would have gone on to have a mid-table season - however, I think that would still mean we would be lumbered with Gourlay and our finances would only get worse. So overall, hard to be unhappy about things.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Denver Royal » 07 May 2019 13:07

Ascotexgunner
Denver Royal
Brain Traysers Our wages - £35m - 10th highest in league (above Leeds £31m and significantly higher than Sheff Utd £19m)

Ouch.
.
.
(Trivia: In 106 season, anyone know where we ranked in wages in Champ that season?)


Is it 10th though or is it that we are more transparent in our accounting?
How, for instance, how do Boro cunjour up over 50 mill for transfers when their attendance's arnt much better than ours. I do t even pretend to understand football finances but looking at the state some clubs are left in it seems their are a lot of owners who are dishonest and hiding numbers. We quote FFP but none of it makes sense.

Ascot, yep, good points.
Sheff U spending so little and getting auto is some achievement. Will be interesting to see what they decide to do in PL.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 07 May 2019 13:42

NewCorkSeth
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PistolPete Not a chance in hell O'Shea was on £40k per week!


On good authority

No way. His contract with Subderland was 47k. Theres no hope the club is that thick.

Gourlay.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Forbury Lion » 07 May 2019 14:57

My views - Everyone out of contract can go.

I'd rate Jaakkola as our best goalkeeper, However we need to sign someone better and who we keep as no 2 probably depends on who we can't shift.

Right Backs - We don't need 3, Both Yiadom and Gunter are good players at this level. I think we'd probably get more money for Gunter so I'd reluctantly listen to offers for him.

Left Back - Probably keep all 3 until Obita can prove he's the player he was before injury, However Gunter can cover at left back, so maybe an option if we get an offer for one of them.

Central Defence - Keep them all, unless we can add a better player or two to the squad

Central Midfield
Keep Rinomhota & Olise, Listen to offers for the rest - I rate Liam Kelly, but not sure he's the right fit and selling him can raise much needed funds - maybe he's better as an attacking midfielder/played in place of an attacking midfielder in so much as he scores goals. Possible.

Right Wing - Get rid of Popa, he's been here too long without actually being here.
Attacking midfield - Keep them all, unless we have to sell - Swift won't be missed if we sign a decent striker.
Left wing - McLeary can cover here, keep Barrow.

Strikers
We need to stregthen here - Keep Bodvarson and Loader, listen to offers for the rest, Aim to sign Olivera and another striker.


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 07 May 2019 15:32

reckon both Arsenal may be a good bet to pick up some decent loans from. They have quite a few good young players like Willock and Neketiah who aren't getting much of a look in. Couple of encouraging words from Martinez and a small trip down the M4

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Brain Traysers » 07 May 2019 17:21

Denver Royal
Ascotexgunner
Denver Royal Ouch.
.
.
(Trivia: In 106 season, anyone know where we ranked in wages in Champ that season?)


Is it 10th though or is it that we are more transparent in our accounting?
How, for instance, how do Boro cunjour up over 50 mill for transfers when their attendance's arnt much better than ours. I do t even pretend to understand football finances but looking at the state some clubs are left in it seems their are a lot of owners who are dishonest and hiding numbers. We quote FFP but none of it makes sense.

Ascot, yep, good points.
Sheff U spending so little and getting auto is some achievement. Will be interesting to see what they decide to do in PL.


As its based on annual accounts, the figures are always one season behind - so Sheff Utd £19m wage bill was for last season - their first back at this level. No doubt their wages were higher this season, and will be towards the top third once all the promotion bonuses are included. However they still punched massively above their weight

For Middlesbrough, their 2017/18 accounts included the first year of parachute payments following the huge TV deal - they got £42m last season alone. This gave them an operating 'profit' (positive EBITDA) of £7m. On top of that they also realised £14m profit through player sales, despite spending £66m (which will be spread over the life of the contracts in the accounts).

Their attendances may not be as big as Villa/Leeds, but last season they could support their bloated £49m wage bill almost through PPs alone. However, their PPs dropped to £34m this season (potentially wiping out the operating £7m profit c.p.), and as they only had one season in the PL they wont get any PPs next season.

With them missing out on the playoffs I expect they will also be cutting cloth this summer.

Here is the Swiss Ramble thread on Boro, although most other clubs hadn't reported yet, so the league comparisons were better for the Brentford thread I posted yesterday.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Zip » 07 May 2019 17:46

Hound reckon both Arsenal may be a good bet to pick up some decent loans from. They have quite a few good young players like Willock and Neketiah who aren't getting much of a look in. Couple of encouraging words from Martinez and a small trip down the M4


Yep and the fact all five loanees got plenty of game time and found the experience very positive certainly goes in our favour. We will certainly need a number of loanees again next season and looking to the big clubs like Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, again won’t do any harm.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 07 May 2019 17:59

Yep and probably increased each of the loanees values by at least 50% if not a lot more.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Lower West » 07 May 2019 18:22

Hound Yep and probably increased each of the loanees values by at least 50% if not a lot more.


Host club pays their wages. Reading agree to give them maximum pitch time. Everybody is a winner.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by URZZZZ » 07 May 2019 21:03

Hound reckon both Arsenal may be a good bet to pick up some decent loans from. They have quite a few good young players like Willock and Neketiah who aren't getting much of a look in. Couple of encouraging words from Martinez and a small trip down the M4


Whilst it was only the once and obviously not enough to judge a player on, I watched Arsenal play Blackpool in the cup sometime this year and Nketiah was poor

Willock on the other hand was quality, and I know Arsenal fans are upset he hasn't featured much this season

I'd also try and have a look at Kent from Liverpool if Rangers don't re-sign him, I've always thought him to be a cracking little player and we're always in need of wingers. Similar Woodburn but he seemed to have stagnated at Sheffield United earlier this season

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Zip » 07 May 2019 21:15

URZZZZ
Hound reckon both Arsenal may be a good bet to pick up some decent loans from. They have quite a few good young players like Willock and Neketiah who aren't getting much of a look in. Couple of encouraging words from Martinez and a small trip down the M4


Whilst it was only the once and obviously not enough to judge a player on, I watched Arsenal play Blackpool in the cup sometime this year and Nketiah was poor

Willock on the other hand was quality, and I know Arsenal fans are upset he hasn't featured much this season

I'd also try and have a look at Kent from Liverpool if Rangers don't re-sign him, I've always thought him to be a cracking little player and we're always in need of wingers. Similar Woodburn but he seemed to have stagnated at Sheffield United earlier this season


I rate Woodburn. He didn’t get a start at a Sheffield Utd team that was flying so I don’t worry about that. He is a sharp, bright player. Would love to have him on loan next season. He was terrific for Wales in the WC qualifiers.

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