Next Season's Squad.

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mikey0406
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by mikey0406 » 08 May 2019 21:04

URZZZZ Still don't get the "Gomes wants to move Swift on" argument. From 26 December to the 30th March (when Gomes arrived) Swift has started 16 out of 17 league games. Surely he wouldn't be actively looking to move him on if he played him so much

Maybe Gomes will be forced to move him on is a better argument because of FFP. But I have no doubt that Gomes doesn't want to simply move him on


I’m sure there will be 2/3 players that he’s forced to sell due to contract/offer on the table. Swift, Moore, Rino, Barrow and Meite will all fall into this.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Zip » 08 May 2019 21:06

URZZZZ Still don't get the "Gomes wants to move Swift on" argument. From 26 December to the 30th March (when Gomes arrived) Swift has started 16 out of 17 league games. Surely he wouldn't be actively looking to move him on if he played him so much

Maybe Gomes will be forced to move him on is a better argument because of FFP. But I have no doubt that Gomes doesn't want to simply move him on


Swift wasn’t missed during the run in. He will command a good fee. Much rather sell him than Moore or Meite who would have been badly missed ( we scored once in our final three games of which Meite only played a few minutes).

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Zip » 08 May 2019 21:09

mikey0406
URZZZZ Still don't get the "Gomes wants to move Swift on" argument. From 26 December to the 30th March (when Gomes arrived) Swift has started 16 out of 17 league games. Surely he wouldn't be actively looking to move him on if he played him so much

Maybe Gomes will be forced to move him on is a better argument because of FFP. But I have no doubt that Gomes doesn't want to simply move him on


I’m sure there will be 2/3 players that he’s forced to sell due to contract/offer on the table. Swift, Moore, Rino, Barrow and Meite will all fall into this.


Sell Swift but keep the others. We can get rid of a stack of players but keep a core and bring in five or six on permanents and loans.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by CountryRoyal » 08 May 2019 21:12

NewCorkSeth
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NewCorkSeth That's a fair price.


Fair price? Seems a bargain to me. Let's not forget 8 years ago we sold Matt Mills to Leicester for £5m. :lol:

We sold Hector for 4 million didnt we?


4 years ago when he was 22. By football inflation terms surely worth more than that now, no?

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 08 May 2019 21:13

CountryRoyal
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Fair price? Seems a bargain to me. Let's not forget 8 years ago we sold Matt Mills to Leicester for £5m. :lol:

We sold Hector for 4 million didnt we?


4 years ago when he was 22. By football inflation terms surely worth more than that now, no?

Not sure many players go to Chelsea and increase in value. Usually they let em go cheap and then they gain value right?


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by URZZZZ » 08 May 2019 21:16

Zip
URZZZZ Still don't get the "Gomes wants to move Swift on" argument. From 26 December to the 30th March (when Gomes arrived) Swift has started 16 out of 17 league games. Surely he wouldn't be actively looking to move him on if he played him so much

Maybe Gomes will be forced to move him on is a better argument because of FFP. But I have no doubt that Gomes doesn't want to simply move him on


Swift wasn’t missed during the run in. He will command a good fee. Much rather sell him than Moore or Meite who would have been badly missed ( we scored once in our final three games of which Meite only played a few minutes).


Out of all the saleable assets, barrow would be the first one out for me. And I know what you mean but it still doesn’t mean he “wants” to sell swift, certainly not in the same regard as him wanting to sell meyler and co. I’m sure if you asked Gomes if he wants swift come 3rd August he’d say yes

And whilst we didn’t do badly without swift, we did only win one game in 7 without him

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Zip » 08 May 2019 21:25

URZZZZ
Zip
URZZZZ Still don't get the "Gomes wants to move Swift on" argument. From 26 December to the 30th March (when Gomes arrived) Swift has started 16 out of 17 league games. Surely he wouldn't be actively looking to move him on if he played him so much

Maybe Gomes will be forced to move him on is a better argument because of FFP. But I have no doubt that Gomes doesn't want to simply move him on


Swift wasn’t missed during the run in. He will command a good fee. Much rather sell him than Moore or Meite who would have been badly missed ( we scored once in our final three games of which Meite only played a few minutes).


Out of all the saleable assets, barrow would be the first one out for me. And I know what you mean but it still doesn’t mean he “wants” to sell swift, certainly not in the same regard as him wanting to sell meyler and co. I’m sure if you asked Gomes if he wants swift come 3rd August he’d say yes

And whilst we didn’t do badly without swift, we did only win one game in 7 without him


You may be right on Swift but he is so inconsistent. That wont be lost on Gomes. Either way there are a handful of key players that I hope don’t go. If the likes of Moore are sold then we start from scratch at centre back which is a big problem. If we sell Meite then we have no one up front with a physical presence who can score goals.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by SCIAG » 08 May 2019 21:42

NewCorkSeth Is McEachran not a bit shit?

So is Lewis Baker, and yet...

(A Baker/McEachran/Swift midfield three would be amazing)

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Wallsy » 08 May 2019 22:00

Fully expecting to see one or two of Moore, Rino and Meite leave this summer. I suspect Moore and Meite are the most likely to go to raise the money Jose needs for new players.


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Lower West » 08 May 2019 22:11

Zip
URZZZZ
Zip
Swift wasn’t missed during the run in. He will command a good fee. Much rather sell him than Moore or Meite who would have been badly missed ( we scored once in our final three games of which Meite only played a few minutes).


Out of all the saleable assets, barrow would be the first one out for me. And I know what you mean but it still doesn’t mean he “wants” to sell swift, certainly not in the same regard as him wanting to sell meyler and co. I’m sure if you asked Gomes if he wants swift come 3rd August he’d say yes

And whilst we didn’t do badly without swift, we did only win one game in 7 without him


You may be right on Swift but he is so inconsistent. That wont be lost on Gomes. Either way there are a handful of key players that I hope don’t go. If the likes of Moore are sold then we start from scratch at centre back which is a big problem. If we sell Meite then we have no one up front with a physical presence who can score goals.


Swift has suffered from not being in a midfield that plays to his strengths. Arguably our best dead ball specialist as well. We need creativity to compliment the likes of Rino.

The reality is that like January. The entire squad is up for sale. If the price is right players will depart.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 08 May 2019 22:18

Yep, also depends largely on who is wanted by other clubs and the price they are prepared to pay

It’s not like we can just say ‘yeah we’ll sell Swift’. Nobody might want him (or at least enough to stump up a decent sum)

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by CountryRoyal » 08 May 2019 22:25

SCIAG
NewCorkSeth Is McEachran not a bit shit?

So is Lewis Baker, and yet...

(A Baker/McEachran/Swift midfield three would be amazing)


It would be amazing, amazingly shit. We’ve seen our fair share of powder puff midfields in recent years but that would take the biscuit :lol:

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by SCIAG » 08 May 2019 23:30

CountryRoyal
SCIAG
NewCorkSeth Is McEachran not a bit shit?

So is Lewis Baker, and yet...

(A Baker/McEachran/Swift midfield three would be amazing)


It would be amazing, amazingly shit. We’ve seen our fair share of powder puff midfields in recent years but that would take the biscuit :lol:

I was mostly memeing, but I think you're underestimating McEachran's defensive ability.

This season McEachran made 2 tackles and 1.1 interceptions per 90. That was pretty standard for him - he's done better in two of his five seasons since he left Chelsea.
That compares well to Rinomhota who made 2.3 tackles and 1 interception. In real terms, Rinomhota wins the ball one extra time every five matches.
Baker made 1.3 tackles and 0.7 interceptions for us, by far the highest he's made at any club. Swift made 1.4 tackles and 0.8 interceptions.
Ejaria made 1.8 and 1.1. Kelly made 1.6 and 1.2.

Think it's fair to say that Rinomhota/Baker/AN Other looked like a solid defensive midfield base. Put McEachran in for Rinomhota and there's no good reason to think it would be noticeably worse at winning the ball back.

I think what we'd actually miss would be Rinomhota's ability to carry the ball out of danger. From McEachran's Chelsea days I thought this was one of his strengths, but he's actually terrible at it, even worse than Kelly. Statistically, Rinomhota is almost as good as Swift at dribbling, though I'd say they use their abilities differently (Rinomhota relieves pressure and gives us time to get set up, Swift dribbles more creatively). Ejaria on the other hand is one of the best dribblers in the league and the best who regularly plays in midfield.

God, spent far too much time defending that shitpost. But basically the problem with the modern British technical midfielder isn't that they can't defend, it's that they can't dribble. Oliver Norwood syndrome.


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Nameless » 09 May 2019 07:15

SCIAG
CountryRoyal
SCIAG So is Lewis Baker, and yet...

(A Baker/McEachran/Swift midfield three would be amazing)


It would be amazing, amazingly shit. We’ve seen our fair share of powder puff midfields in recent years but that would take the biscuit :lol:

I was mostly memeing, but I think you're underestimating McEachran's defensive ability.

This season McEachran made 2 tackles and 1.1 interceptions per 90. That was pretty standard for him - he's done better in two of his five seasons since he left Chelsea.
That compares well to Rinomhota who made 2.3 tackles and 1 interception. In real terms, Rinomhota wins the ball one extra time every five matches.
Baker made 1.3 tackles and 0.7 interceptions for us, by far the highest he's made at any club. Swift made 1.4 tackles and 0.8 interceptions.
Ejaria made 1.8 and 1.1. Kelly made 1.6 and 1.2.

Think it's fair to say that Rinomhota/Baker/AN Other looked like a solid defensive midfield base. Put McEachran in for Rinomhota and there's no good reason to think it would be noticeably worse at winning the ball back.

I think what we'd actually miss would be Rinomhota's ability to carry the ball out of danger. From McEachran's Chelsea days I thought this was one of his strengths, but he's actually terrible at it, even worse than Kelly. Statistically, Rinomhota is almost as good as Swift at dribbling, though I'd say they use their abilities differently (Rinomhota relieves pressure and gives us time to get set up, Swift dribbles more creatively). Ejaria on the other hand is one of the best dribblers in the league and the best who regularly plays in midfield.

God, spent far too much time defending that shitpost. But basically the problem with the modern British technical midfielder isn't that they can't defend, it's that they can't dribble. Oliver Norwood syndrome.


Does whatever the definition of a ‘tackle’ actually define what defending involves ?
James Harper used to,talk about this when people,said he couldn’t tackle. He said on the one hand you had Sidwell charging in and ‘tackling’ , getting lots of praise for diving in, knocking people over etc. Harps pointed out that if you lost a ‘tackle’ you were on the ground, off your feet, out of the game. He said defending was about getting between the attacked and the goal, stopping them passing, stopping them dribbling and waiting for that moment when they took their eye off the ball or slightly miscontrolled it and then taking it away from them. He said it was much and people,didn’t See it as tacking but he saw it as much more effective and lower risk even if it wasn’t what got fans on their feet.
No idea whether the football stats reflect this.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Stranded » 09 May 2019 08:44

I think the key comment from all of Gomes interviews (see here: https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/spor ... xt-season/) is that he already knows who he wants to bring in - now whether there is a sliding scale based on how much money we can generate in the next 6 weeks is anyone's guess but would suggest we should be able to move fast once we know we can move.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Platypuss » 09 May 2019 09:45

Nameless Does whatever the definition of a ‘tackle’ actually define what defending involves ?
James Harper used to,talk about this when people,said he couldn’t tackle. He said on the one hand you had Sidwell charging in and ‘tackling’ , getting lots of praise for diving in, knocking people over etc. Harps pointed out that if you lost a ‘tackle’ you were on the ground, off your feet, out of the game. He said defending was about getting between the attacked and the goal, stopping them passing, stopping them dribbling and waiting for that moment when they took their eye off the ball or slightly miscontrolled it and then taking it away from them. He said it was much and people,didn’t See it as tacking but he saw it as much more effective and lower risk even if it wasn’t what got fans on their feet.
No idea whether the football stats reflect this.


This is not tackling. HTH.


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by paultheroyal » 09 May 2019 14:38

Hopefully get as many new players in as early as possible and dead wood shifted so they can hit the 10 game pre season campaign full on.

Some decent looking friendlies lined up with tour and at long last a decent Prem team to play week before the season starts will make them well placed come August.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Nameless » 09 May 2019 16:14

Platypuss
Nameless Does whatever the definition of a ‘tackle’ actually define what defending involves ?
James Harper used to,talk about this when people,said he couldn’t tackle. He said on the one hand you had Sidwell charging in and ‘tackling’ , getting lots of praise for diving in, knocking people over etc. Harps pointed out that if you lost a ‘tackle’ you were on the ground, off your feet, out of the game. He said defending was about getting between the attacked and the goal, stopping them passing, stopping them dribbling and waiting for that moment when they took their eye off the ball or slightly miscontrolled it and then taking it away from them. He said it was much and people,didn’t See it as tacking but he saw it as much more effective and lower risk even if it wasn’t what got fans on their feet.
No idea whether the football stats reflect this.


This is not tackling. HTH.



Would be better with some context, otherwise it's just some random picture of yourself doing a star jump

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by From Despair To Where? » 09 May 2019 16:44

Nameless
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It would be amazing, amazingly shit. We’ve seen our fair share of powder puff midfields in recent years but that would take the biscuit :lol:

I was mostly memeing, but I think you're underestimating McEachran's defensive ability.

This season McEachran made 2 tackles and 1.1 interceptions per 90. That was pretty standard for him - he's done better in two of his five seasons since he left Chelsea.
That compares well to Rinomhota who made 2.3 tackles and 1 interception. In real terms, Rinomhota wins the ball one extra time every five matches.
Baker made 1.3 tackles and 0.7 interceptions for us, by far the highest he's made at any club. Swift made 1.4 tackles and 0.8 interceptions.
Ejaria made 1.8 and 1.1. Kelly made 1.6 and 1.2.

Think it's fair to say that Rinomhota/Baker/AN Other looked like a solid defensive midfield base. Put McEachran in for Rinomhota and there's no good reason to think it would be noticeably worse at winning the ball back.

I think what we'd actually miss would be Rinomhota's ability to carry the ball out of danger. From McEachran's Chelsea days I thought this was one of his strengths, but he's actually terrible at it, even worse than Kelly. Statistically, Rinomhota is almost as good as Swift at dribbling, though I'd say they use their abilities differently (Rinomhota relieves pressure and gives us time to get set up, Swift dribbles more creatively). Ejaria on the other hand is one of the best dribblers in the league and the best who regularly plays in midfield.

God, spent far too much time defending that shitpost. But basically the problem with the modern British technical midfielder isn't that they can't defend, it's that they can't dribble. Oliver Norwood syndrome.


Does whatever the definition of a ‘tackle’ actually define what defending involves ?
James Harper used to,talk about this when people,said he couldn’t tackle. He said on the one hand you had Sidwell charging in and ‘tackling’ , getting lots of praise for diving in, knocking people over etc. Harps pointed out that if you lost a ‘tackle’ you were on the ground, off your feet, out of the game. He said defending was about getting between the attacked and the goal, stopping them passing, stopping them dribbling and waiting for that moment when they took their eye off the ball or slightly miscontrolled it and then taking it away from them. He said it was much and people,didn’t See it as tacking but he saw it as much more effective and lower risk even if it wasn’t what got fans on their feet.
No idea whether the football stats reflect this.


That basically what Xabi Alonso used to say about tackling being a last resort. Better to apply pressure and force a mistake than to fly in with a tackle and take yourself out of the game for a couple of seconds.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Armadillo Roadkill » 09 May 2019 17:09

From Despair To Where?
Nameless
SCIAG I was mostly memeing, but I think you're underestimating McEachran's defensive ability.

This season McEachran made 2 tackles and 1.1 interceptions per 90. That was pretty standard for him - he's done better in two of his five seasons since he left Chelsea.
That compares well to Rinomhota who made 2.3 tackles and 1 interception. In real terms, Rinomhota wins the ball one extra time every five matches.
Baker made 1.3 tackles and 0.7 interceptions for us, by far the highest he's made at any club. Swift made 1.4 tackles and 0.8 interceptions.
Ejaria made 1.8 and 1.1. Kelly made 1.6 and 1.2.

Think it's fair to say that Rinomhota/Baker/AN Other looked like a solid defensive midfield base. Put McEachran in for Rinomhota and there's no good reason to think it would be noticeably worse at winning the ball back.

I think what we'd actually miss would be Rinomhota's ability to carry the ball out of danger. From McEachran's Chelsea days I thought this was one of his strengths, but he's actually terrible at it, even worse than Kelly. Statistically, Rinomhota is almost as good as Swift at dribbling, though I'd say they use their abilities differently (Rinomhota relieves pressure and gives us time to get set up, Swift dribbles more creatively). Ejaria on the other hand is one of the best dribblers in the league and the best who regularly plays in midfield.

God, spent far too much time defending that shitpost. But basically the problem with the modern British technical midfielder isn't that they can't defend, it's that they can't dribble. Oliver Norwood syndrome.


Does whatever the definition of a ‘tackle’ actually define what defending involves ?
James Harper used to,talk about this when people,said he couldn’t tackle. He said on the one hand you had Sidwell charging in and ‘tackling’ , getting lots of praise for diving in, knocking people over etc. Harps pointed out that if you lost a ‘tackle’ you were on the ground, off your feet, out of the game. He said defending was about getting between the attacked and the goal, stopping them passing, stopping them dribbling and waiting for that moment when they took their eye off the ball or slightly miscontrolled it and then taking it away from them. He said it was much and people,didn’t See it as tacking but he saw it as much more effective and lower risk even if it wasn’t what got fans on their feet.
No idea whether the football stats reflect this.


That basically what Xabi Alonso used to say about tackling being a last resort. Better to apply pressure and force a mistake than to fly in with a tackle and take yourself out of the game for a couple of seconds.


Yeah, yeah, yeah; Xabi Alonso. What does he know about being a world class footballer eh? What does he know about it that the average UK football fan doesn't eh?

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