Next Season's Squad.

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KentRoyal
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by KentRoyal » 02 Jul 2019 19:10

Mid Sussex Royal So at training today there were just 6 non academy players: Walker, Moore, Blackett, Meite, Barrow & Swift....with Barrow wanting out and Yiadom on international duty.

Scary

*7 players, as there’s was Denzeil Boadu

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by The Enfield Royal71 » 02 Jul 2019 20:31

KentRoyal
Mid Sussex Royal So at training today there were just 6 non academy players: Walker, Moore, Blackett, Meite, Barrow & Swift....with Barrow wanting out and Yiadom on international duty.

Scary

*7 players, as there’s was Denzeil Boadu


Who

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by SCIAG » 02 Jul 2019 21:47

Hendo
Pepe the Horseman
SCIAG Think Baldock would make a useful alternative to Barrow, looked good in a few appearances on the wing. If he's one of the higher earners then getting rid makes sense but I'll be sad to see him go.

JDB could go either way, he's been the best of a meh bunch over the past two years. Don't think Oliveira represents an big upgrade so would be disappointed if we used any FFP wiggle room those transfers generate to sign him. Get me Baker and Miazga!

Kelly's been treated very badly. 100% deserves to stay. Probably my biggest bone of contention with Gomes.

Couldn't disagree with you more on Oliveira. Strong, great touch, skillful,
good finisher, works hard. Everything we've been crying out for for years.


100% agreed with PTH.

It's not that I dislike Oliveira, it's that I don't think he's a particular upgrade on JDB (who I also like). An upgrade, sure, but not a big one. I think there's an extent to which Oliveira flatters to deceive. He doesn't have a great goal record. Perhaps Gomes is the manager who finally gets the best out of him, but it's a gamble. I think upgrading the midfield has to be our main priority, and then the central defence - I'd rather not be spending more money on strikers until we have that sorted.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by SCIAG » 02 Jul 2019 21:50

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SCIAG Kelly's been treated very badly. 100% deserves to stay. Probably my biggest bone of contention with Gomes.


I tend to take everything posted on here with a pinch of salt and looking at the video of everyone hanging out at training there's no beef whatsoever between Kelly and Gomes. Hopefully it's a sign of him being used in the new season.

Although obviously people who are trying to maintain the beef narrative will say it was all for show

I don't track the gossip, but Kelly being left out in favour of East or even not having a midfielder on the bench suggested that Gomes had little faith in him, which was unfair.

Baker was a better player in a very similar role so no surprise Kelly slipped a little out of favour, but being completely ignored at times when we needed him was treatment I can't remember a Reading player receiving since... Goater maybe?

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 02 Jul 2019 22:03

It’s definitely a little strange for him to be back with the first team after falling so far out of favour

I was.m very surprised to see him back tbh


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by The Enfield Royal71 » 02 Jul 2019 22:33

SCIAG
Silver Fox
SCIAG Kelly's been treated very badly. 100% deserves to stay. Probably my biggest bone of contention with Gomes.


I tend to take everything posted on here with a pinch of salt and looking at the video of everyone hanging out at training there's no beef whatsoever between Kelly and Gomes. Hopefully it's a sign of him being used in the new season.

Although obviously people who are trying to maintain the beef narrative will say it was all for show

I don't track the gossip, but Kelly being left out in favour of East or even not having a midfielder on the bench suggested that Gomes had little faith in him, which was unfair.

Baker was a better player in a very similar role so no surprise Kelly slipped a little out of favour, but being completely ignored at times when we needed him was treatment I can't remember a Reading player receiving since... Goater maybe?


Matejovsky and carrico.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Jul 2019 23:45

SCIAG
Hendo
Pepe the Horseman Couldn't disagree with you more on Oliveira. Strong, great touch, skillful,
good finisher, works hard. Everything we've been crying out for for years.


100% agreed with PTH.

It's not that I dislike Oliveira, it's that I don't think he's a particular upgrade on JDB (who I also like). An upgrade, sure, but not a big one. I think there's an extent to which Oliveira flatters to deceive. He doesn't have a great goal record. Perhaps Gomes is the manager who finally gets the best out of him, but it's a gamble. I think upgrading the midfield has to be our main priority, and then the central defence - I'd rather not be spending more money on strikers until we have that sorted.

There are two question marks over Oliveira for me.
1) Fitness - can he stay fit and injury free (so same as Bod)
2) Attitude - will he play in team mates when they're better placed or will he hog efforts. Will he cause issues.

Other than that, his strength, hold up, first touch, finishing, vision and improvisation are far superior to Bod.

Bod has a knack for scoring, works hard and I like him. But he's really not in Oli's class talent wise.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Brain Traysers » 03 Jul 2019 00:27

Snowflake Royal There are two question marks over Oliveira for me.
1) Fitness - can he stay fit and injury free (so same as Bod)
2) Attitude - will he play in team mates when they're better placed or will he hog efforts. Will he cause issues.

Other than that, his strength, hold up, first touch, finishing, vision and improvisation are far superior to Bod.

Bod has a knack for scoring, works hard and I like him. But he's really not in Oli's class talent wise.


Is there really a question mark over Oliveria's fitness? He got his face stomped on in a freak accident/assault (?) and then made a very fast recovery from a hamstring issue. He hasn't had a full season for a while, but I think that's mostly because Norwich preferred others (Farke was open about wanting a mobile pressing forward in 2017/18, while Jerome was prolific with 23 goals+assists in 16/17 from 2888 mins to Nelsons 1403). Before that he was part of a three man rotation at Forest.

For reference, his 2449 mins over 26 starts and 11 sub appearances in 2017/18 would have made him the 8th most fielded player for us that season. Bod was the striker with the most game time at 1766 mins (13th best) ahead of Kermorgant (15th with 1309 mins).

On your second point, I actually think this is one of his key strengths, and something we have lacked for a long time. Some strikers are better for having a selfish streak (e.g. Forster), and none of our current bunch have the knack of getting shots away at a high rate. At the time when he arrived I checked the numbers (cba to upd8 but they wont have moved much - Loaders asterisk is a v small sample warning).



Over his career he averages around 4 shots a game - only Meite gets near that from our squad. Where his selfishness becomes an issue is shot location - half of his shots come from outside the box. I know I hammer on about this point (mostly to deaf ears) but only around 1 in 25 of shots from the edge of the box (21 to 27m from target) result in a goal, and that's the best possible case for his 51% of shots and many will be even further out.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Royal Monkey » 03 Jul 2019 00:52

Sutekh
Royal Monkey Does anyone know if McCleary has been released or told to stay away and find a new club ? I haven’t heard anything and couldn’t see him in any pics of the players returning to training.
Also had a Leeds supporting guy I know text me a few days ago from Portugal saying his kids had made friends with McClearys kids. This was Saturday so I take it he didn’t/isn’t returning??


Both McCleary and Adrian Popa are in the same boat as Gunter, Bod, Baldock, Meyler and McNulty

https://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/foot ... s-16520176

So that's 7 senior players looking to be moved on now. Going to be amazed if they've all managed to move on by 9th August.


It would be a miracle with how slow the transfer market is at present.
We’re gonna have a load of disgruntled senior pros picking up decent money while training with the kids which would be an absolute nightmare. Praying they can find new clubs and we can get them off the wage bill now we have publicly told them to do one.


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by KentRoyal » 03 Jul 2019 06:35

The Enfield Royal71
KentRoyal
Mid Sussex Royal So at training today there were just 6 non academy players: Walker, Moore, Blackett, Meite, Barrow & Swift....with Barrow wanting out and Yiadom on international duty.

Scary

*7 players, as there’s was Denzeil Boadu


Who

Trialist from Borussia Dortmund

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 03 Jul 2019 07:10

One of the main criticisms of Oliveira I’ve seen from Norwich fans is shooting from ridiculous positions/distance.

Interesting to see he is being linked with AEK. Wages quoted at 20k a week which surely we’d be able to cover if he was a free transfer

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Jul 2019 12:42

Hound One of the main criticisms of Oliveira I’ve seen from Norwich fans is shooting from ridiculous positions/distance.

Interesting to see he is being linked with AEK. Wages quoted at 20k a week which surely we’d be able to cover if he was a free transfer

One of his last games last season he stole the ball of Meite who was better placed and also refused to play in a couple of well placed players too so he could have a terrible shot.

It's definitely a flaw if he doesn't get it under control. But otherwise he's a definite improvement on what we've got, and that more than counters the flaw. Without it, I expect he'd be in the PL

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Stranded » 03 Jul 2019 13:03

Just mentioned on another post - think the next 72 hours could be key for our planning. With the squad flying out on Sunday for 2 weeks, you would think the club would want to have new faces in place for that.

Obviously players can sign and fly out to join but you just get the feeling that if no-one goes out/comes in before Saturday then we won't see much inbound movement until after the 22nd July.


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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 03 Jul 2019 13:35

In an ideal world. however no doubts they have deals being worked on in the background, which will take as long as they take. It would certainly be nice to have any incomings earlier than 2 weeks before the season starts though

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Denver Royal » 03 Jul 2019 13:43

Snowflake Royal
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100% agreed with PTH.

It's not that I dislike Oliveira, it's that I don't think he's a particular upgrade on JDB (who I also like). An upgrade, sure, but not a big one. I think there's an extent to which Oliveira flatters to deceive. He doesn't have a great goal record. Perhaps Gomes is the manager who finally gets the best out of him, but it's a gamble. I think upgrading the midfield has to be our main priority, and then the central defence - I'd rather not be spending more money on strikers until we have that sorted.

There are two question marks over Oliveira for me.
1) Fitness - can he stay fit and injury free (so same as Bod)
2) Attitude - will he play in team mates when they're better placed or will he hog efforts. Will he cause issues.

Other than that, his strength, hold up, first touch, finishing, vision and improvisation are far superior to Bod.

Agree, I'd be less than honest if I said his attitude/selfishness wasn't somewhat of a concern of mine at this point.
Hoping Gomes might coach some of that out of him and/or harness it more effectively (if we get him).

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by linkenholtroyal » 03 Jul 2019 14:21

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SCIAG It's not that I dislike Oliveira, it's that I don't think he's a particular upgrade on JDB (who I also like). An upgrade, sure, but not a big one. I think there's an extent to which Oliveira flatters to deceive. He doesn't have a great goal record. Perhaps Gomes is the manager who finally gets the best out of him, but it's a gamble. I think upgrading the midfield has to be our main priority, and then the central defence - I'd rather not be spending more money on strikers until we have that sorted.

There are two question marks over Oliveira for me.
1) Fitness - can he stay fit and injury free (so same as Bod)
2) Attitude - will he play in team mates when they're better placed or will he hog efforts. Will he cause issues.

Other than that, his strength, hold up, first touch, finishing, vision and improvisation are far superior to Bod.

Agree, I'd be less than honest if I said his attitude/selfishness wasn't somewhat of a concern of mine.
Hoping Gomes might coach some of that out of him and/or harness it more effectively (if we get him).

I think almost the first bit is more important than the selfishness. As we stand we have goals in all the attacking 4 in Meite, Barrow and Swift. if we play the fast flowing football you need someone who can hold the ball up on the half way line and play it off on the counter to start those moves or to hold the ball up and play it off to another player to keep the play moving on. as a single CF this is more important than necessarily being a poacher in the 6 yard box and Oliveira is the best option at this. if he can score 15 a season that is brilliant but he can also start the move for potentially another 30 between the other 3 attacking players.

Also playing devils advocate he is the best at drawing a foul off the opposition.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 03 Jul 2019 14:41

linkenholtroyal
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Snowflake Royal There are two question marks over Oliveira for me.
1) Fitness - can he stay fit and injury free (so same as Bod)
2) Attitude - will he play in team mates when they're better placed or will he hog efforts. Will he cause issues.

Other than that, his strength, hold up, first touch, finishing, vision and improvisation are far superior to Bod.

Agree, I'd be less than honest if I said his attitude/selfishness wasn't somewhat of a concern of mine.
Hoping Gomes might coach some of that out of him and/or harness it more effectively (if we get him).

I think almost the first bit is more important than the selfishness. As we stand we have goals in all the attacking 4 in Meite, Barrow and Swift. if we play the fast flowing football you need someone who can hold the ball up on the half way line and play it off on the counter to start those moves or to hold the ball up and play it off to another player to keep the play moving on. as a single CF this is more important than necessarily being a poacher in the 6 yard box and Oliveira is the best option at this. if he can score 15 a season that is brilliant but he can also start the move for potentially another 30 between the other 3 attacking players.

Also playing devils advocate he is the best at drawing a foul off the opposition.

A major benefit of Oliveira is he demands attention. Much more so than Bod, Baldock or McNulty ever did/will. That gives our other attacking options a much better chance at getting into attacking situations and creating chances.

Not many defenses in the champ would be able to effectively mark him, Meite, Barrow and Swift out of a game. Press too fast against Swift and you have 3 very different but equally effective forwards moving into spaces beyond him. At least in theory..

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Denver Royal » 03 Jul 2019 14:50

NewCorkSeth
linkenholtroyal
Denver Royal Agree, I'd be less than honest if I said his attitude/selfishness wasn't somewhat of a concern of mine.
Hoping Gomes might coach some of that out of him and/or harness it more effectively (if we get him).

I think almost the first bit is more important than the selfishness. As we stand we have goals in all the attacking 4 in Meite, Barrow and Swift. if we play the fast flowing football you need someone who can hold the ball up on the half way line and play it off on the counter to start those moves or to hold the ball up and play it off to another player to keep the play moving on. as a single CF this is more important than necessarily being a poacher in the 6 yard box and Oliveira is the best option at this. if he can score 15 a season that is brilliant but he can also start the move for potentially another 30 between the other 3 attacking players.

Also playing devils advocate he is the best at drawing a foul off the opposition.

A major benefit of Oliveira is he demands attention. Much more so than Bod, Baldock or McNulty ever did/will. That gives our other attacking options a much better chance at getting into attacking situations and creating chances.

Not many defenses in the champ would be able to effectively mark him, Meite, Barrow and Swift out of a game. Press too fast against Swift and you have 3 very different but equally effective forwards moving into spaces beyond him. At least in theory..

Yep, good points guys (as usual).
Just a bit worried that if he won't release the ball, then the movement off it will be less so, and others won't make those runs (or be more hesitant to). It's fix-able, but it will need his buy-in.
Wouldn't want to drain all those traits out of him entirely, but there is a balance I think.
Maybe he'd be more of a 'team' player as a permanent signing.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by NewCorkSeth » 03 Jul 2019 14:57

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linkenholtroyal I think almost the first bit is more important than the selfishness. As we stand we have goals in all the attacking 4 in Meite, Barrow and Swift. if we play the fast flowing football you need someone who can hold the ball up on the half way line and play it off on the counter to start those moves or to hold the ball up and play it off to another player to keep the play moving on. as a single CF this is more important than necessarily being a poacher in the 6 yard box and Oliveira is the best option at this. if he can score 15 a season that is brilliant but he can also start the move for potentially another 30 between the other 3 attacking players.

Also playing devils advocate he is the best at drawing a foul off the opposition.

A major benefit of Oliveira is he demands attention. Much more so than Bod, Baldock or McNulty ever did/will. That gives our other attacking options a much better chance at getting into attacking situations and creating chances.

Not many defenses in the champ would be able to effectively mark him, Meite, Barrow and Swift out of a game. Press too fast against Swift and you have 3 very different but equally effective forwards moving into spaces beyond him. At least in theory..

Yep, good points guys (as usual).
Just a bit worried that if he won't release the ball, then the movement off it will be less so, and others won't make those runs (or be more hesitant to).
It's fix-able, but it will need his buy-in.

I am still not sure if it is fixable. It's his character. But if Meite can keep his form up then we simply (well.. it's not that simple) play it into the channels for him or Barrow to create some havoc. I cant see many teams silencing those 3. Obviously Barrow might leave but I'll include him until he does. Much like Gomes appears to be doing.

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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Jul 2019 19:41

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NewCorkSeth
linkenholtroyal I think almost the first bit is more important than the selfishness. As we stand we have goals in all the attacking 4 in Meite, Barrow and Swift. if we play the fast flowing football you need someone who can hold the ball up on the half way line and play it off on the counter to start those moves or to hold the ball up and play it off to another player to keep the play moving on. as a single CF this is more important than necessarily being a poacher in the 6 yard box and Oliveira is the best option at this. if he can score 15 a season that is brilliant but he can also start the move for potentially another 30 between the other 3 attacking players.

Also playing devils advocate he is the best at drawing a foul off the opposition.

A major benefit of Oliveira is he demands attention. Much more so than Bod, Baldock or McNulty ever did/will. That gives our other attacking options a much better chance at getting into attacking situations and creating chances.

Not many defenses in the champ would be able to effectively mark him, Meite, Barrow and Swift out of a game. Press too fast against Swift and you have 3 very different but equally effective forwards moving into spaces beyond him. At least in theory..

Yep, good points guys (as usual).
Just a bit worried that if he won't release the ball, then the movement off it will be less so, and others won't make those runs (or be more hesitant to). It's fix-able, but it will need his buy-in.
Wouldn't want to drain all those traits out of him entirely, but there is a balance I think.
Maybe he'd be more of a 'team' player as a permanent signing.

None of them really have a reliable scoring record. Oliveira's best is 15 according to stranded. Meite got 12 , Swift 3 & 2 & 8, Barrow 4 & 10, Bod 7 & 7.

So Swift's had one good scoring season in three, Barrow one in two. Bod none in two. Meite's 1 in 1 at least, although you'd want half a dozen more from your main man. Even a couple more for your second top scorer ideally.

Really don't think we have many goals in the side at all.

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