Value the Squad

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PistolPete
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Re: Value the Squad

by PistolPete » 19 May 2019 21:50

SCIAG Considering either McIntyre or Osho is currently notionally part of the first XI, it's strange to value them at one-seventh of a 15 year old who will probably never play professional football. Similarly, selling Bod at a loss despite this being the best spell of his career.


I've certainly undervalued McIntyre and Osho - due to their cheap wages, they ought to be more like £2m. That's not to say they are, or ever will be worth it, but who knows. The high value of the 15 year old is, subject to him even being on a contract, due to the huge teams that are interested and could easily pay. Sheyi Ojo was bought for £2m aged 14, Raheem Sterling £5m at age 15...

Bod is also a high earner, he's also extremely replaceable. But yeah, he's a decent player and seems to be an even more decent guy to have around...

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Re: Value the Squad

by Nameless » 19 May 2019 22:20

PistolPete
From Despair To Where? So an established international right back is worth nothing but a right back with 1 minute's first team experience is worth £1m+?


If you read what I put at the bottom, I said I’d like to renegotiate Gunters contract. Failing that, yes, Gunter is being paid £1.25 million a year (I’d guess), the youth boys more like £50-100k, so giving away Gunter for free would free up a million quid for FFP. Rating Holmes at a million is because he has at least another season here for cheap to prove himself, and who knows what might happen- put simply, the low earners are not worth selling unless for excellent money.


How would you get a player to renegotiate a contract ? What if they say ‘no thanks I’ll stick with what I have’ ?
How can you give a player away ? The player has to agree a move, there is no way you can break their contract. Unless a player gets a deal from another club that is better than the one they already have then you have no FFP saving as you will need to pay up their contract before they leave.

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Re: Value the Squad

by Snowflake Royal » 19 May 2019 23:10

Nameless
PistolPete
From Despair To Where? So an established international right back is worth nothing but a right back with 1 minute's first team experience is worth £1m+?


If you read what I put at the bottom, I said I’d like to renegotiate Gunters contract. Failing that, yes, Gunter is being paid £1.25 million a year (I’d guess), the youth boys more like £50-100k, so giving away Gunter for free would free up a million quid for FFP. Rating Holmes at a million is because he has at least another season here for cheap to prove himself, and who knows what might happen- put simply, the low earners are not worth selling unless for excellent money.


How would you get a player to renegotiate a contract ? What if they say ‘no thanks I’ll stick with what I have’ ?
How can you give a player away ? The player has to agree a move, there is no way you can break their contract. Unless a player gets a deal from another club that is better than the one they already have then you have no FFP saving as you will need to pay up their contract before they leave.

Offer him a replacement two / three year deal on 50 / 60 % of the money and he can take that or find himself a new club and train with the U23s in the meantime is probably your best chance, but it's not a great option.

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Re: Value the Squad

by Nameless » 20 May 2019 07:01

Snowflake Royal
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If you read what I put at the bottom, I said I’d like to renegotiate Gunters contract. Failing that, yes, Gunter is being paid £1.25 million a year (I’d guess), the youth boys more like £50-100k, so giving away Gunter for free would free up a million quid for FFP. Rating Holmes at a million is because he has at least another season here for cheap to prove himself, and who knows what might happen- put simply, the low earners are not worth selling unless for excellent money.


How would you get a player to renegotiate a contract ? What if they say ‘no thanks I’ll stick with what I have’ ?
How can you give a player away ? The player has to agree a move, there is no way you can break their contract. Unless a player gets a deal from another club that is better than the one they already have then you have no FFP saving as you will need to pay up their contract before they leave.

Offer him a replacement two / three year deal on 50 / 60 % of the money and he can take that or find himself a new club and train with the U23s in the meantime is probably your best chance, but it's not a great option.


The ‘train with the u23’ thing is fine for players who haveno future at a club but where they are like Gunter and likely to be a regular match day squad player it’s likely to be a bit self defeating !

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Re: Value the Squad

by URZZZZ » 21 May 2019 01:15

PistolPete
Snowflake Royal I'd give McNulty a go alongside or in behind our main striker. I'd rather sell Baldock than McNulty tbh. Baldock's likely to be on higher wages.


So would I. Gomes, however, plays a 4-3-3 system with a number 10 like Swift (or Barrett!), not a floating poacher like McNulty. He is absolutely not a Gomes player.


Not strictly true. Being picky but he plays a 4-2-3-1 rather than a 4-3-3. There's actually a huge difference. 4-3-3 implies width, when we play a narrow 4-2-3-1 formation with the width coming from the fullbacks. Stam's was a 4-3-3 with natural wingers

This means the CAM doesn't have to be a natural "midfielder" like Swift, Barrett, Olise etc. It can also be a "second striker" dropping deep, which McNulty could feasibly play, just like Loader has this season. Very unlikely he'll feature, but he could fit in if Gomes really wants to use him


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Re: Value the Squad

by Coppells Lost Coat » 21 May 2019 09:06

URZZZZ
This means the CAM doesn't have to be a natural "midfielder" like Swift, Barrett, Olise etc. It can also be a "second striker" dropping deep, which McNulty could feasibly play, just like Loader has this season. Very unlikely he'll feature, but he could fit in if Gomes really wants to use him


Good point, but also depends if McNulty wants to play that role and not be the main striker. Gomes in my eyes will try and off load him so Barrett / Olise have a path to 1st team football. Its a shame but it hasn't worked here and we move on.
IMO Nova, Bod Meite, Baldock + Loader are all ahead of him atm.

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Re: Value the Squad

by Hound » 21 May 2019 09:21

McNulty won't play for us again. I think he is a decent player, and would do ok given a run in the champ.

But we need to offload and he is one of many strikers of a similar standard that we have - and he'll have plenty of takers after his good spell at Hibs.

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Re: Value the Squad

by Snowflake Royal » 21 May 2019 16:58

If you had a choice Hound, would you rather keep Baldock or McNulty?

What about Bod or McNulty?

Both likely to be on higher wages. Both of similar or higher value?

Agree McNulty doesn't seem in plans and may be easier to shift, but given the age, wage and injuries of the other two I think I'd favour him, Meite, Novakovich and Loader and maybe Oliveira or AN Other.

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Re: Value the Squad

by Hound » 21 May 2019 17:53

Think all 3 are about the same. I’d agree Baldock would be on the most wage so would rather he leave, but doubt anyone will take

I’m a Bod fan but last season’s injuries are certainly a concern. As were Baldock’s esp in light of an injury prone history

At a push I’d say I’d keep in this order:

Bod > McNulty > Baldock

I’d be happy enough for McNulty to stay. Just think that bridge was burnt when he got booted out of the first team squad.

He seemed to love being at Hibs - expect he’ll end up there one way or another


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Re: Value the Squad

by Ascotexgunner » 21 May 2019 18:27

Loader 9 million? Did I miss something?

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Re: Value the Squad

by Snowflake Royal » 21 May 2019 20:10

Hound Think all 3 are about the same. I’d agree Baldock would be on the most wage so would rather he leave, but doubt anyone will take

I’m a Bod fan but last season’s injuries are certainly a concern. As were Baldock’s esp in light of an injury prone history

At a push I’d say I’d keep in this order:

Bod > McNulty > Baldock

I’d be happy enough for McNulty to stay. Just think that bridge was burnt when he got booted out of the first team squad.

He seemed to love being at Hibs - expect he’ll end up there one way or another

Yeah, I love Bod, but he's now spent two seasons getting multiple niggly injuries and his control lets him down.

Don't think Hibs can afford McNulty, but broadly agree with you.

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Re: Value the Squad

by CountryRoyal » 21 May 2019 20:42

Ascotexgunner Loader 9 million? Did I miss something?


Clearly this season and the last 10 years of football inflation. :P

When you look at some of the figures being brandished for second division players then 9 million is a pretty reasonable figure imho.

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Re: Value the Squad

by URZZZZ » 21 May 2019 22:45

Snowflake Royal
Hound Think all 3 are about the same. I’d agree Baldock would be on the most wage so would rather he leave, but doubt anyone will take

I’m a Bod fan but last season’s injuries are certainly a concern. As were Baldock’s esp in light of an injury prone history

At a push I’d say I’d keep in this order:

Bod > McNulty > Baldock

I’d be happy enough for McNulty to stay. Just think that bridge was burnt when he got booted out of the first team squad.

He seemed to love being at Hibs - expect he’ll end up there one way or another

Yeah, I love Bod, but he's now spent two seasons getting multiple niggly injuries and his control lets him down.

Don't think Hibs can afford McNulty, but broadly agree with you.


But then you look at Bodvarsson at Wolves and IIRC he featured in something like 43 out of 46 of their league games. Is it really him that is the problem?

Disagree about his touch, I think he’s very intelligent on that regard, knowing when to stick or twist. The only thing with him is he seems to lack a goalscoring instinct at times, such as derby in the away game where barrow put in a few teasing crosses and him as the lone striker was no where to be seen. Seems a bit strange saying that considering he’s got a fantastic ratio of goals this season but feel that’s a major downpoint for him


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Re: Value the Squad

by Victor Meldrew » 22 May 2019 10:28

Have just re-read the O.P. and it has led to some mildly interesting discussion.
I think the views of Pete on values are in many instances way off beam.
I think he has failed to take into account that our squad consists of players just above Div 1 level and that is how they and our club is perceived in the football world.

The two obvious errors are Barrett and Blackett, the first having played a couple of first team games for us and not been particularly impressive and the second who plays a few games and then gets dropped.
, so £2million for a Reading squad player-you are having a laugh.

I agree about sell-on fees for the youngsters but hardly any of those would command much of a fee up-front based on the fact that they may only have played a couple of first-team games in emergency situations so to talk in terms of millions is IMHO unrealistic.

Your main premise is that there is loads of money sloshing around in football but , in reality, it is only in the Premier League with debt in the Championship being around £500,000,000 and FFP feared by all.
So would Premier League clubs come looking at our youngsters, who (although in our eyes promising) have shown so little and indeed have not had the opportunity to show what they can do.
Premier League clubs themselves have many of their own youngsters so are they all going to come to Reading or Wigan or Millwall to hunt those clubs' youngsters?

As ever time will tell and I would be very pleased if some of your valuations proved correct as it would mean stability for the club in the immediate future.,

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Re: Value the Squad

by PistolPete » 22 May 2019 10:50

Victor Meldrew Have just re-read the O.P. and it has led to some mildly interesting discussion.
I think the views of Pete on values are in many instances way off beam.
I think he has failed to take into account that our squad consists of players just above Div 1 level and that is how they and our club is perceived in the football world.

The two obvious errors are Barrett and Blackett, the first having played a couple of first team games for us and not been particularly impressive and the second who plays a few games and then gets dropped.
, so £2million for a Reading squad player-you are having a laugh.

I agree about sell-on fees for the youngsters but hardly any of those would command much of a fee up-front based on the fact that they may only have played a couple of first-team games in emergency situations so to talk in terms of millions is IMHO unrealistic.

Your main premise is that there is loads of money sloshing around in football but , in reality, it is only in the Premier League with debt in the Championship being around £500,000,000 and FFP feared by all.
So would Premier League clubs come looking at our youngsters, who (although in our eyes promising) have shown so little and indeed have not had the opportunity to show what they can do.
Premier League clubs themselves have many of their own youngsters so are they all going to come to Reading or Wigan or Millwall to hunt those clubs' youngsters?

As ever time will tell and I would be very pleased if some of your valuations proved correct as it would mean stability for the club in the immediate future.,


’Mildly interesting’! :lol:

My rationale for valuing Blackett is that he covers two positions. On top of that, he’s improving season on season.

The rationale for valuing Barrett so high, and I know it’s absurdly high, is that I think he should play this season; I don’t want him sold.

Anyway. I am Nicky Hammond and I claim my own £5. (Or, you can have it for £6)

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Re: Value the Squad

by Victor Meldrew » 22 May 2019 11:57

PistolPete
Victor Meldrew Have just re-read the O.P. and it has led to some mildly interesting discussion.
I think the views of Pete on values are in many instances way off beam.
I think he has failed to take into account that our squad consists of players just above Div 1 level and that is how they and our club is perceived in the football world.

The two obvious errors are Barrett and Blackett, the first having played a couple of first team games for us and not been particularly impressive and the second who plays a few games and then gets dropped.
, so £2million for a Reading squad player-you are having a laugh.

I agree about sell-on fees for the youngsters but hardly any of those would command much of a fee up-front based on the fact that they may only have played a couple of first-team games in emergency situations so to talk in terms of millions is IMHO unrealistic.

Your main premise is that there is loads of money sloshing around in football but , in reality, it is only in the Premier League with debt in the Championship being around £500,000,000 and FFP feared by all.
So would Premier League clubs come looking at our youngsters, who (although in our eyes promising) have shown so little and indeed have not had the opportunity to show what they can do.
Premier League clubs themselves have many of their own youngsters so are they all going to come to Reading or Wigan or Millwall to hunt those clubs' youngsters?

As ever time will tell and I would be very pleased if some of your valuations proved correct as it would mean stability for the club in the immediate future.,


’Mildly interesting’! :lol:

My rationale for valuing Blackett is that he covers two positions. On top of that, he’s improving season on season.

The rationale for valuing Barrett so high, and I know it’s absurdly high, is that I think he should play this season; I don’t want him sold.

Anyway. I am Nicky Hammond and I claim my own £5. (Or, you can have it for £6)


Your post was interesting, the comments were mildly interesting. :wink:
Blackett may well have improved from dire to a moderate Championship reserves player so maybe £200,000 rather than £2,000,000.
As yet I can't share your admiration for young Barrett but we will see.

Hopefully the club will do a Nicky and coin in many millions-we got much more than I expected for Bacuna so your valuations may turn out to be on the money.

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Re: Value the Squad

by Nameless » 22 May 2019 12:24

PistolPete
Victor Meldrew Have just re-read the O.P. and it has led to some mildly interesting discussion.
I think the views of Pete on values are in many instances way off beam.
I think he has failed to take into account that our squad consists of players just above Div 1 level and that is how they and our club is perceived in the football world.

The two obvious errors are Barrett and Blackett, the first having played a couple of first team games for us and not been particularly impressive and the second who plays a few games and then gets dropped.
, so £2million for a Reading squad player-you are having a laugh.

I agree about sell-on fees for the youngsters but hardly any of those would command much of a fee up-front based on the fact that they may only have played a couple of first-team games in emergency situations so to talk in terms of millions is IMHO unrealistic.

Your main premise is that there is loads of money sloshing around in football but , in reality, it is only in the Premier League with debt in the Championship being around £500,000,000 and FFP feared by all.
So would Premier League clubs come looking at our youngsters, who (although in our eyes promising) have shown so little and indeed have not had the opportunity to show what they can do.
Premier League clubs themselves have many of their own youngsters so are they all going to come to Reading or Wigan or Millwall to hunt those clubs' youngsters?

As ever time will tell and I would be very pleased if some of your valuations proved correct as it would mean stability for the club in the immediate future.,


’Mildly interesting’! :lol:

My rationale for valuing Blackett is that he covers two positions. On top of that, he’s improving season on season.

The rationale for valuing Barrett so high, and I know it’s absurdly high, is that I think he should play this season; I don’t want him sold.

Anyway. I am Nicky Hammond and I claim my own £5. (Or, you can have it for £6)


On what basis do you want Barrett to play ?
And why would you select him ahead of Barrow ?
You wanting him to play is utterly irrelevant in terms of value. He’s had unimpressive loans at Coventry and Aldershot and while he has talent he’s yet to really show it is talent that can be used in a 46 game season or that is combined with the effort, discipline and team ethic needed.

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Re: Value the Squad

by linkenholtroyal » 22 May 2019 13:14

Nameless
PistolPete
Victor Meldrew Have just re-read the O.P. and it has led to some mildly interesting discussion.
I think the views of Pete on values are in many instances way off beam.
I think he has failed to take into account that our squad consists of players just above Div 1 level and that is how they and our club is perceived in the football world.

The two obvious errors are Barrett and Blackett, the first having played a couple of first team games for us and not been particularly impressive and the second who plays a few games and then gets dropped.
, so £2million for a Reading squad player-you are having a laugh.

I agree about sell-on fees for the youngsters but hardly any of those would command much of a fee up-front based on the fact that they may only have played a couple of first-team games in emergency situations so to talk in terms of millions is IMHO unrealistic.

Your main premise is that there is loads of money sloshing around in football but , in reality, it is only in the Premier League with debt in the Championship being around £500,000,000 and FFP feared by all.
So would Premier League clubs come looking at our youngsters, who (although in our eyes promising) have shown so little and indeed have not had the opportunity to show what they can do.
Premier League clubs themselves have many of their own youngsters so are they all going to come to Reading or Wigan or Millwall to hunt those clubs' youngsters?

As ever time will tell and I would be very pleased if some of your valuations proved correct as it would mean stability for the club in the immediate future.,


’Mildly interesting’! :lol:

My rationale for valuing Blackett is that he covers two positions. On top of that, he’s improving season on season.

The rationale for valuing Barrett so high, and I know it’s absurdly high, is that I think he should play this season; I don’t want him sold.

Anyway. I am Nicky Hammond and I claim my own £5. (Or, you can have it for £6)


On what basis do you want Barrett to play ?
And why would you select him ahead of Barrow ?
You wanting him to play is utterly irrelevant in terms of value. He’s had unimpressive loans at Coventry and Aldershot and while he has talent he’s yet to really show it is talent that can be used in a 46 game season or that is combined with the effort, discipline and team ethic needed.

What would be interesting on that basis is to predict how many games those players are likely to play next season for us.

Would be interesting to see how the price matches to the games prediction

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Re: Value the Squad

by URZZZZ » 22 May 2019 14:05

Victor Meldrew
PistolPete
Victor Meldrew Have just re-read the O.P. and it has led to some mildly interesting discussion.
I think the views of Pete on values are in many instances way off beam.
I think he has failed to take into account that our squad consists of players just above Div 1 level and that is how they and our club is perceived in the football world.

The two obvious errors are Barrett and Blackett, the first having played a couple of first team games for us and not been particularly impressive and the second who plays a few games and then gets dropped.
, so £2million for a Reading squad player-you are having a laugh.

I agree about sell-on fees for the youngsters but hardly any of those would command much of a fee up-front based on the fact that they may only have played a couple of first-team games in emergency situations so to talk in terms of millions is IMHO unrealistic.

Your main premise is that there is loads of money sloshing around in football but , in reality, it is only in the Premier League with debt in the Championship being around £500,000,000 and FFP feared by all.
So would Premier League clubs come looking at our youngsters, who (although in our eyes promising) have shown so little and indeed have not had the opportunity to show what they can do.
Premier League clubs themselves have many of their own youngsters so are they all going to come to Reading or Wigan or Millwall to hunt those clubs' youngsters?

As ever time will tell and I would be very pleased if some of your valuations proved correct as it would mean stability for the club in the immediate future.,


’Mildly interesting’! :lol:

My rationale for valuing Blackett is that he covers two positions. On top of that, he’s improving season on season.

The rationale for valuing Barrett so high, and I know it’s absurdly high, is that I think he should play this season; I don’t want him sold.

Anyway. I am Nicky Hammond and I claim my own £5. (Or, you can have it for £6)


Your post was interesting, the comments were mildly interesting. :wink:
Blackett may well have improved from dire to a moderate Championship reserves player so maybe £200,000 rather than £2,000,000.
As yet I can't share your admiration for young Barrett but we will see.

Hopefully the club will do a Nicky and coin in many millions-we got much more than I expected for Bacuna so your valuations may turn out to be on the money.


Your point would be valid if Blackett was a reserves team player. Work out how many games he’s missed this season (excluding injuries and suspensions) and then re think. 200k is simply an insult

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Re: Value the Squad

by Hendo » 22 May 2019 14:08

£200k for our starting left back? :lol:

What is this, 2001? Be serious.

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