Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

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Oilroyal
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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Oilroyal » 17 Aug 2019 07:03

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'The Reading way.'


Who cares about the 'Reading' way?

Where has that got us the last few seasons?

This is the results business and if players aren't performing and doing their job properly, they need to go.

Quite a lot of us care about it. Under Coppell the club not only succeeded, but did so in admirable and ethical ways.

You might want to take a look at how judgemental and intolerant you are as a possible cause for why you're so miserable and unstable.


this

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by The Enfield Royal71 » 17 Aug 2019 07:24

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Who cares about the 'Reading' way?

Where has that got us the last few seasons?

This is the results business and if players aren't performing and doing their job properly, they need to go.

Quite a lot of us care about it. Under Coppell the club not only succeeded, but did so in admirable and ethical ways.

You might want to take a look at how judgemental and intolerant you are as a possible cause for why you're so miserable and unstable.


this


I'm not being judgemental and intolerant at all. You are infact by saying that. I'm not sure you can go one single post without being a miserable, sanctimonious helm.

The old Reading way was good under Coppell 10+ years ago. When JM left and sold up thats the day it died.

These days football and ethics goes about as well together as a Big Mac and Caramel sauce.

Its a results business unfortunately Ian. I would prefer to get results and keep in business and be successful rather then live 10 years in the past because of old dying ethics and ethos.

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by The Enfield Royal71 » 17 Aug 2019 07:27

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Denver Royal Yes, is this in any way a departure from the past? Maybe those having a problem with it could weigh in? Thanks.

(Btw, I'd be surprised if GMac has a beef with the club. He's continued to draw a handsome salary in recent seasons and gave little in return because he was injured and unavailable. Not his fault, but that was the reality to the club).


Is this the same McCleary who was fit and available for every single game last season from mid October and registered 0 goals? Injuries weren’t a problem for him last season, he’s simply not good enough anymore

You're obsessed. Goals aren't the only way to measure performance. He's also the McCleary that got 3 assists in that time.

And before you complain that three is rubbish, here's our multi assisters who played at least 1000 minutes.
Barrow (6) 1 in 373
Yiadom (4) 1 in 1012
McCleary (3) 1 in 508
Swift (3) 1 in 849
Bacuna (3) 1 in 700
Ejaria (2) 1 in 652
Blackett (2) 1 in 1248

That's right. Third highest assister, second best minutes per assist.

No one thinks McCleary is a very good first choice Championship winger these days. But at the back end of last season, even if his finishing is shot, he showed he can still do damage to teams and is decent cover.



Wow. That's depressing to look at. Although thats still absolutely abysmal numbers from him and our supposed creative genius swift.

But hey you know best.

What an asset he is to our team.

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by URZZZZ » 17 Aug 2019 07:55

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Denver Royal Yes, is this in any way a departure from the past? Maybe those having a problem with it could weigh in? Thanks.

(Btw, I'd be surprised if GMac has a beef with the club. He's continued to draw a handsome salary in recent seasons and gave little in return because he was injured and unavailable. Not his fault, but that was the reality to the club).


Is this the same McCleary who was fit and available for every single game last season from mid October and registered 0 goals? Injuries weren’t a problem for him last season, he’s simply not good enough anymore

You're obsessed. Goals aren't the only way to measure performance. He's also the McCleary that got 3 assists in that time.

And before you complain that three is rubbish, here's our multi assisters who played at least 1000 minutes.
Barrow (6) 1 in 373
Yiadom (4) 1 in 1012
McCleary (3) 1 in 508
Swift (3) 1 in 849
Bacuna (3) 1 in 700
Ejaria (2) 1 in 652
Blackett (2) 1 in 1248

That's right. Third highest assister, second best minutes per assist.

No one thinks McCleary is a very good first choice Championship winger these days. But at the back end of last season, even if his finishing is shot, he showed he can still do damage to teams and is decent cover.


“Gave little in return because he was injured and unavailable”. I was merely stating he wasn’t injured and unavailable for 3/4 of last season so it’s not an excuse for him giving “little in return”

Of course goals isn’t the only metric to evaluate a player. But 0(3) doesn’t look pretty whichever way you look at it. And comparing to other players doesn’t make his stats look better, it simply highlights how poor our attacking players were

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Hound » 17 Aug 2019 08:01

Interesting that we’ve managed to shift all the deadwood (except Baldock arguably, though looks like he may stay on the fringes) now except these two

Thought they’d be fixed up quite quickly, especially Gunter. Find it a bit strange that he is still here whilst we’ve even found a club for Popa


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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Zip » 17 Aug 2019 08:04

Can anyone explain the benefits of isolating a senior and longstanding player who has a reputation as being one of the good guys in the game?

I absolutely get the club want to move GMac and Gunts on. Fair enough. Both though have very good reps as professional footballers and their experience could be helpful to the younger players in the squad.

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Zip » 17 Aug 2019 08:06

Hound Interesting that we’ve managed to shift all the deadwood (except Baldock arguably, though looks like he may stay on the fringes) now except these two

Thought they’d be fixed up quite quickly, especially Gunter. Find it a bit strange that he is still here whilst we’ve even found a club for Popa


Yep it is very surprising especially if other clubs were willing to take them on loan. Having said that I recall the transfer values posters were putting on Gunter. I think the figure was £2 million. We were never going to get anything like that for him.

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Nameless » 17 Aug 2019 08:06

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'The Reading way.'


Who cares about the 'Reading' way?

Where has that got us the last few seasons?

This is the results business and if players aren't performing and doing their job properly, they need to go.

Quite a lot of us care about it. Under Coppell the club not only succeeded, but did so in admirable and ethical ways.

You might want to take a look at how judgemental and intolerant you are as a possible cause for why you're so miserable and unstable.


This is absolute nonsense !
There was stuff under SJM that was ethically much more questionable than the Gunter /McLeary situation.
As previously stated ‘TheReading Way’ had nothing to do with us being ethically pure, I can’t think of any examples of us being ethically different to anyone else in the Madejski era. If anything you could find more d samples today of us adopting the higher ground....

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Nameless » 17 Aug 2019 08:11

Zip Can anyone explain the benefits of isolating a senior and longstanding player who has a reputation as being one of the good guys in the game?

I absolutely get the club want to move GMac and Gunts on. Fair enough. Both though have very good reps as professional footballers and their experience could be helpful to the younger players in the squad.


They haven’t been isolated have they ?
They are training/playing with the reserves.
Oddly this involves being with the younger members of the squad and hopefully passing on their experience and professionalism to our developing young professionals !
The likes of McIntyre, Rino, Richards have Moore, Adam and Yiadom as experienced pros alongside them in tgefirst team squad.


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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by The Enfield Royal71 » 17 Aug 2019 08:15

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Who cares about the 'Reading' way?

Where has that got us the last few seasons?

This is the results business and if players aren't performing and doing their job properly, they need to go.

Quite a lot of us care about it. Under Coppell the club not only succeeded, but did so in admirable and ethical ways.

You might want to take a look at how judgemental and intolerant you are as a possible cause for why you're so miserable and unstable.


This is absolute nonsense !
There was stuff under SJM that was ethically much more questionable than the Gunter /McLeary situation.
As previously stated ‘TheReading Way’ had nothing to do with us being ethically pure, I can’t think of any examples of us being ethically different to anyone else in the Madejski era. If anything you could find more d samples today of us adopting the higher ground....


Don't bother arguing with him. He will never admit he is wrong even though he clearly is, and has to resort to childish and petty insults because he is a man child. Its like talking to a brick wall.

Dare I say a brick wall has more charisma though.

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Hound » 17 Aug 2019 08:20

Nameless
Zip Can anyone explain the benefits of isolating a senior and longstanding player who has a reputation as being one of the good guys in the game?

I absolutely get the club want to move GMac and Gunts on. Fair enough. Both though have very good reps as professional footballers and their experience could be helpful to the younger players in the squad.


They haven’t been isolated have they ?
They are training/playing with the reserves.
Oddly this involves being with the younger members of the squad and hopefully passing on their experience and professionalism to our developing young professionals !
The likes of McIntyre, Rino, Richards have Moore, Adam and Yiadom as experienced pros alongside them in tgefirst team squad.


Interesting neither played in the U23s last night

Reckon GMac will end up at Oxford - close to home etc. Gunts, no idea. Can’t believe he’ll be happy seeing out a year not playing. Don’t think he’ll drop a division unless it’s to maybe Sunderland or Portsmouth. Short term id still put him slightly above Watson and Howe for Yiadom back up

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Nameless » 17 Aug 2019 08:24

Hound
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Zip Can anyone explain the benefits of isolating a senior and longstanding player who has a reputation as being one of the good guys in the game?

I absolutely get the club want to move GMac and Gunts on. Fair enough. Both though have very good reps as professional footballers and their experience could be helpful to the younger players in the squad.


They haven’t been isolated have they ?
They are training/playing with the reserves.
Oddly this involves being with the younger members of the squad and hopefully passing on their experience and professionalism to our developing young professionals !
The likes of McIntyre, Rino, Richards have Moore, Adam and Yiadom as experienced pros alongside them in tgefirst team squad.


Interesting neither played in the U23s last night

Reckon GMac will end up at Oxford - close to home etc. Gunts, no idea. Can’t believe he’ll be happy seeing out a year not playing. Don’t think he’ll drop a division unless it’s to maybe Sunderland or Portsmouth. Short term id still put him slightly above Watson and Howe for Yiadom back up


I don’t think it too strange that we might not insist they travel to Manchester on a wet Friday night to play. If they play an Academy player misses out. Playing them in home/local games means they keep active but let’s them off the motorway slogs and late nights. It’s the Reading Way

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Nameless » 17 Aug 2019 08:26

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Snowflake Royal Quite a lot of us care about it. Under Coppell the club not only succeeded, but did so in admirable and ethical ways.

You might want to take a look at how judgemental and intolerant you are as a possible cause for why you're so miserable and unstable.


This is absolute nonsense !
There was stuff under SJM that was ethically much more questionable than the Gunter /McLeary situation.
As previously stated ‘TheReading Way’ had nothing to do with us being ethically pure, I can’t think of any examples of us being ethically different to anyone else in the Madejski era. If anything you could find more d samples today of us adopting the higher ground....


Don't bother arguing with him. He will never admit he is wrong even though he clearly is, and has to resort to childish and petty insults because he is a man child. Its like talking to a brick wall.

Dare I say a brick wall has more charisma though.


To be honest your arguement is wrong too and I’d probably go you > IR > brick wall


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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Zip » 17 Aug 2019 08:31

Nameless
Zip Can anyone explain the benefits of isolating a senior and longstanding player who has a reputation as being one of the good guys in the game?

I absolutely get the club want to move GMac and Gunts on. Fair enough. Both though have very good reps as professional footballers and their experience could be helpful to the younger players in the squad.


They haven’t been isolated have they ?
They are training/playing with the reserves.
Oddly this involves being with the younger members of the squad and hopefully passing on their experience and professionalism to our developing young professionals !
The likes of McIntyre, Rino, Richards have Moore, Adam and Yiadom as experienced pros alongside them in tgefirst team squad.


That’s what was being reported a few weeks ago. They were not allowed to use the same changing room as the first team squad.

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Nameless » 17 Aug 2019 08:37

Zip
Nameless
Zip Can anyone explain the benefits of isolating a senior and longstanding player who has a reputation as being one of the good guys in the game?

I absolutely get the club want to move GMac and Gunts on. Fair enough. Both though have very good reps as professional footballers and their experience could be helpful to the younger players in the squad.


They haven’t been isolated have they ?
They are training/playing with the reserves.
Oddly this involves being with the younger members of the squad and hopefully passing on their experience and professionalism to our developing young professionals !
The likes of McIntyre, Rino, Richards have Moore, Adam and Yiadom as experienced pros alongside them in tgefirst team squad.


That’s what was being reported a few weeks ago. They were not allowed to use the same changing room as the first team squad.


Not sure how changing with the squad they are training with equates to ‘being isolated’. Are you suggesting they are changing in their cars or have a little shed just for the two of them ? Are the U23 now at Bearwood anyway so changing at Hogwood with the first team then jogging to Bearwood would seem pointless ?

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Jagermesiter1871 » 17 Aug 2019 08:50

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Human compassion? :lol: :lol: :lol:

They are reserves in a professional football team. Not torture victims.


Thats all they are. An expendable asset for a business to try make money. If they are surplus to requirements and not good enough to help the business then get rid. If an employee doesn't perform or keeps missing SLA or KPI....

YOU'RE FIRED!


'The Reading way.'


Who cares about the 'Reading' way?

Where has that got us the last few seasons?

This is the results business and if players aren't performing and doing their job properly, they need to go.


Well isn't that exactly the point - we'd apparently departed from 'the Reading way'.

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Zip » 17 Aug 2019 08:53

Nameless
Zip
Nameless
They haven’t been isolated have they ?
They are training/playing with the reserves.
Oddly this involves being with the younger members of the squad and hopefully passing on their experience and professionalism to our developing young professionals !
The likes of McIntyre, Rino, Richards have Moore, Adam and Yiadom as experienced pros alongside them in tgefirst team squad.


That’s what was being reported a few weeks ago. They were not allowed to use the same changing room as the first team squad.


Not sure how changing with the squad they are training with equates to ‘being isolated’. Are you suggesting they are changing in their cars or have a little shed just for the two of them ? Are the U23 now at Bearwood anyway so changing at Hogwood with the first team then jogging to Bearwood would seem pointless ?


Not sure where they are changing. There was a photo of GMac’s gear in what appeared to be a confined space on a Twitter a few weeks ago. Not sure who they have been training with either. Have they been training on their own? Not sure. Was a bit surprised they were involved with the Under 23’s v Newcastle. That is a step in the right direction. Their experience can benefit the younger players and should be used whilst they are still at the club.

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Wimb » 17 Aug 2019 09:08

As posted on Twitter. Both deserve a chunk of credit for sticking with the club during ridiculous uncertainty off the field. Few players will deal with 4 sets of owners (Anton, SJM, Thais, DY) during a 7 year spell at a single club.

How much loyalty they showed the club during that time is something only a select few know. However, what’s widely reported and yet to be disputed is that they’ve been among the highest earners at a club who’ve been among the top 10 wage spenders in this division since we dropped back down. Our return in that period? 1 play-off final and a (delightful) FA Cup run. Think it’s fair to say in 20 years time we won’t be naming lounges after players from this period or holding reunion dinners where Drenthe, Pog and Popa tell us stories (much as I’d pay to see that...)

As individuals both have been fine but aside from a few purple patches from McCleary, neither has made you rush to buy a ticket to a game. Gunter never hit the heights he has for Wales, while GMac’s unlucky injury record stopped him from really hitting form (although it likely also stopped a Prem team from signing him)

So we get to the present where both could probably do a job but neither are part of the club’s future. In this scenario you either just have them frustratedly kicking balls around knowing they’re somewhere between 3rd-5th choice or you say ‘thanks very much but we want all of our primary resources invested in this group who we’re building for the next few years’. It does seem a little harsh to see once integral players outcast from the group but if the Manager has no intention of using them, yet alone keeping them, why bring them in unless it’s 100% necessary?

Everyone will have a view on how much they could/would contribute to the first team now but ultimately it’s down to Gomes and he’s decided he either doesn’t want them, or they’re expendable until we’re forced to keep them.

So either they go down the financial/professional route and take their wages, which they’re entitled to do and just ride out a year, or they make moves for footballing reasons.

I don’t see anything wrong with this approach and as others have said, it’s something common in industry.

The club’s only loyalty is to its fans/owners who are trying to build something successful in the long term, not simply to give a happy ending to two men who’ve happened to be here for 7 years and done their jobs fine during that time.

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Zip » 17 Aug 2019 09:36

All noted Wimb. So why did we not offload them when loan bids (apparently) came in for them at the end of the transfer window?

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Re: Gunter, GMac and 'the Reading way'?

by Nameless » 17 Aug 2019 09:54

 
Zip All noted Wimb. So why did we not offload them when loan bids (apparently) came in for them at the end of the transfer window?



You said ‘apparantly’, so perhaps there weren’t any.
Or perhaps the players didn’t fancy dropping to Div 2
Or perhaps the offer was to let the player move but we’d still had to pay their wages
Or perhaps they were pay as they play deals where the loaning club would pay the wages if they played but we would if they didn’t (or vice versa) and we didn’t see that as a worthwhile deal
Or perhaps they were short term loans which would have stopped us finding a permanent buyer
Or perhaps the club are just heartless bastards who are deliberately messing with two long serving players whilst still chucking large sums of money their way.
Probably best to assume the latter....it’s the Reading Way.....

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