GOMES OUT!

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Ascotexgunner
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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Ascotexgunner » 08 Oct 2019 09:11

windermereROYAL Barnsley sack their manager, first shout on Hughton maybe.


And as usual our timing will be poor and we will miss out and probably the replacement selection will be a complete waste of time.
As said on here before by some unless we get an experienced manager at this level with a proven track record, like Houghton, whats the point, we are going to be constantly at the wrong end of the table. If the club do sack him I hope their plan B has had at least some thought gone into their decision this time.

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by windermereROYAL » 08 Oct 2019 09:12

Old Man Andrews
windermereROYAL Barnsley sack their manager, first shout on Hughton maybe.


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Because he would go there.


Same size club as us, and some people think he will come here.

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Ascotexgunner » 08 Oct 2019 09:13

Hound I heard he wanted to stay down south, understandably being as he is from London and has family this way.

Which is why I suspect we do have a chance of getting him


What you mean he isn't irish? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Oct 2019 09:14

windermereROYAL
Old Man Andrews
windermereROYAL Barnsley sack their manager, first shout on Hughton maybe.


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Because he would go there.


Same size club as us, and some people think he will come here.

No they aren't.

You are making yourself look very foolish, please stop.

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by John Smith » 08 Oct 2019 09:19

windermereROYAL
Old Man Andrews :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Because he would go there.


Same size club as us, and some people think he will come here.

Oh dear windermereROYAL. Are you living in 1997?


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Re: GOMES OUT!

by windermereROYAL » 08 Oct 2019 09:19

Old Man Andrews
windermereROYAL
Old Man Andrews
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Because he would go there.


Same size club as us, and some people think he will come here.

No they aren't.

You are making yourself look very foolish, please stop.


I wasn`t aware you were the self proclaimed hobnob policeman.

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Oct 2019 09:22

windermereROYAL
Old Man Andrews
windermereROYAL
Same size club as us, and some people think he will come here.

No they aren't.

You are making yourself look very foolish, please stop.


I wasn`t aware you were the self proclaimed hobnob policeman.

No I just know that Barnsley are a small, League 1 club who couldn't attract a successful former Premier League manager. It is called logic.

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Hound » 08 Oct 2019 09:29

Ascotexgunner
Hound I heard he wanted to stay down south, understandably being as he is from London and has family this way.

Which is why I suspect we do have a chance of getting him


What you mean he isn't irish? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


well Irish mum, so it wasn't too distant a relative.

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Westwood52 » 08 Oct 2019 09:32

The squad is good enough for a mid table finish.
Whilst I agree the players are underperforming,the problem has to be laid squarely at Gomes and his staff’s door.
Maybe the moment he couldn’t get Baker back,he knew he was doomed and couldn’t play the control system he wanted.
The managerial change has to come in the next fortnight,otherwise if we wait until Xmas we will go down.
I really really would like to see Hughton appointed.
But he will cost !
The Owners must be tearing their hair out and they are not at fault.


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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Stranded » 08 Oct 2019 09:42

Hound I'd be a little wary of judging the opposition by where they are in the table. If we'd beaten Charlton, they'd have been bottom half, Blackburn would have been bottom 5, Hull likewise. If we hadn't gifted 3 points to Sheff Weds and Fulham and at a push Bristol City, but had to say Millwall and Derby, they'd have been top half instead of them

I don't think we've had a particularly tough run tbh. You'd expect at the start of the season to be beating Sheff W, Charlton, Blackburn and possibly Cardiff at home. Away, we might have hoped to have picked up another win against Hull, Boro or Bristol C


And if my auntie had balls....

The fact is they did beat us and have clearly beaten other teams to have the total points they do and be in the position they are. Isn't it usually accepted that after 10 or so games, the league table doesn't massively change over the course of the season - very few clubs shift too many more places one way or another - so I think it is a fair value.

Other way to look at it - if we were in the exact same position and had played Stoke, Barnsley, Luton, Wigan, Millwall, Brentford to date would you still be saying we shouldn't be looking at the leagues position of the oppostion? Fact is we have played sides who have started well and have yet to play the majority of teams, who like us, haven't. This should be considered when discussing the future of the manager.

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Top Flight » 08 Oct 2019 09:45

My opinion on this is that without speaking to Gomes, I would not be sure if Gomes should be sacked or not.

These crunch talks between Gomes and the club are crucial. I think the squad has weakened since the end of last season despite some impressive looking signings. The balance of the side has been disturbed and we are struggling to penetrate teams and create very good opportunities for the front boys.

The question is whether this is Gomes fault or whether it is because of factors outside of his control. And the next question is whether Gomes understands how to take the team forward again. Whether he knows what players he needs to bring the balance and threat back to our game. Or if we are toothless because Gomes has made us toothless and this is his philosophy and how he wants us to play.

We miss Barrow's pace and speed on the counter attack. He is also a winger that can beat full backs and provide service to the front strikers. I think Puscas will come good. He just needs a little bit more help from his team mates to create those guilt edged chances that he can thrive on.

So the loss of Barrow is one reason for our struggles this season. But this was probably outside of Gomes control and probably Gomes would have him in the side if he could.

Another issue is the freezing out of McCleary and Gunter. This might be controversial but Gunter is a very decent wing back if we are playing a 3-5-2 wing back style system. He excelled for Wales in that role and we know Gunter can deliver quality into the box. At the very least Gunter should be involved in first team affairs to provide much needed depth and be another option.

We are struggling to create and be effective in wide areas. So again it beggars belief that a player of McCleary's quality can be frozen out. We are paying for him so we should be using him. Baldock should be involved more as well. These are probably outside of Gomes control. But if Gomes is deliberately choosing to overlook these players then his leadership is on shaky grounds as results are not backing up these decisions.

I like Gomes. I don't like seeing managers get sacked. I am always in favour of sticking with managers. But I hate watching my team play in such an un-intelligent fashion. We are not clever on the pitch. We are not streetwise. We don't use the ball intelligently. We do not attack intelligently in ways that are effective. We don't put balls in dangerous areas often enough. We don't take enough risks when we attack. We always cut back, cut inside and try and retain possession rather than try to thread the needle and put the ball into dangerous areas for Meite, Joao or Puscas to attack. Much of that comes from the coaching.

Whatever the owners decide from their deliberations with Gomes. I support the decision.

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Oct 2019 09:52

Zip
URZZZZ
Zip
So he is being judged on his last six games then because prior to that he successfully kept us up and prior to that his record was deemed good enough for us to appoint him.


No, that's nonsense. He's being judged after a quarter of the season. We have 8 points FFS. Seem to be conveniently forgetting Wednesday and Hull to suit your own agenda too

If you generally think that 36 points in 34 league games is a decent record with the number of signings he's made, then your head must be buried in the sand. He's made 14 signings in 9 months. It's no-where good enough. We don't expect instant success (well, some may) but we want to see players and managers learning from mistakes and impacting upon that. He's reverting back to his first few games with high fullbacks and no midfield cover, with a toothless attack. How is that learning from mistakes?


I haven’t conveniently forgotten the first two games. The big signings did not all start until the Cardiff game. Everyone was fine and dandy after we beat Huddersfield so it’s on the last six games that he is being hammered.

Oh and you are one of those “bleating”on about Clement who was given until nearly halfway through the season to turn things around.

No. It's on his entire tenure, previous record and the last six games. As you've repeatedly been told but choose to ignore.

You don't get to tell us what we're basing our opinion on zip.

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Oct 2019 09:54

Our last 6 games have been horrendous. Why is it a manager cannot be judged on that? Zip is so blinkered on the Gomes issue, its worrying.


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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Ascotexgunner » 08 Oct 2019 10:03

Top Flight So the loss of Barrow is one reason for our struggles this season. But this was probably outside of Gomes control and probably Gomes would have him in the side if he could.

Another issue is the freezing out of McCleary and Gunter.


Barrow leaving and McCleary frozen out suddenly doesn't look like a good move. I have to say I don't know what McCleary did wrong to warrant the treatment. He still had quality about him. Barrow as you say provided pace on the counter, the move did surprise me a bit but at the time it seemed like a good idea and the move towards a new team/era. Not so sure now. Joao seems to spend most of the time on his ar*e moaning and really does so little you wonder if that's another Alukoesque signing for the money. And with Swift suspended McCleary could have slotted in that spot for me.
Gunter is an odd one. He is one of those players that when he plays you sit there thinking "what is the point of him" but you take him out the team and you see exactly what he offers.

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Zip » 08 Oct 2019 10:04

Top Flight My opinion on this is that without speaking to Gomes, I would not be sure if Gomes should be sacked or not.

These crunch talks between Gomes and the club are crucial. I think the squad has weakened since the end of last season despite some impressive looking signings. The balance of the side has been disturbed and we are struggling to penetrate teams and create very good opportunities for the front boys.

The question is whether this is Gomes fault or whether it is because of factors outside of his control. And the next question is whether Gomes understands how to take the team forward again. Whether he knows what players he needs to bring the balance and threat back to our game. Or if we are toothless because Gomes has made us toothless and this is his philosophy and how he wants us to play.

We miss Barrow's pace and speed on the counter attack. He is also a winger that can beat full backs and provide service to the front strikers. I think Puscas will come good. He just needs a little bit more help from his team mates to create those guilt edged chances that he can thrive on.

So the loss of Barrow is one reason for our struggles this season. But this was probably outside of Gomes control and probably Gomes would have him in the side if he could.

Another issue is the freezing out of McCleary and Gunter. This might be controversial but Gunter is a very decent wing back if we are playing a 3-5-2 wing back style system. He excelled for Wales in that role and we know Gunter can deliver quality into the box. At the very least Gunter should be involved in first team affairs to provide much needed depth and be another option.

We are struggling to create and be effective in wide areas. So again it beggars belief that a player of McCleary's quality can be frozen out. We are paying for him so we should be using him. Baldock should be involved more as well. These are probably outside of Gomes control. But if Gomes is deliberately choosing to overlook these players then his leadership is on shaky grounds as results are not backing up these decisions.

I like Gomes. I don't like seeing managers get sacked. I am always in favour of sticking with managers. But I hate watching my team play in such an un-intelligent fashion. We are not clever on the pitch. We are not streetwise. We don't use the ball intelligently. We do not attack intelligently in ways that are effective. We don't put balls in dangerous areas often enough. We don't take enough risks when we attack. We always cut back, cut inside and try and retain possession rather than try to thread the needle and put the ball into dangerous areas for Meite, Joao or Puscas to attack. Much of that comes from the coaching.

Whatever the owners decide from their deliberations with Gomes. I support the decision.



Agree with a lot of this post. Barrow made a big contribution towards our survival in the past two seasons. I always think opposition full backs are less likely to want to push forward if they are aware of someone like Barrow’s pace.
He appeared to want to leave but I wonder if enough was done to try and persuade him to stay.

Also agree about Gunter and GMac. Not just in that they are not involved in the squad but I do think they have been treated poorly. They still have something to offer. Gunter put some cracking crosses in against Birmingham on the final day of last season showing that he can be positive.

We certainly take far too long to get crosses over and passing in general is too slow with wrong options continually taken. When Richards is bombing down the flank release the ball to him straight away instead of cutting infield and holding onto the ball. It’s a regular occurrence and that’s down to the players as much as Gomes.

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Oct 2019 10:05

Zip
Top Flight My opinion on this is that without speaking to Gomes, I would not be sure if Gomes should be sacked or not.

These crunch talks between Gomes and the club are crucial. I think the squad has weakened since the end of last season despite some impressive looking signings. The balance of the side has been disturbed and we are struggling to penetrate teams and create very good opportunities for the front boys.

The question is whether this is Gomes fault or whether it is because of factors outside of his control. And the next question is whether Gomes understands how to take the team forward again. Whether he knows what players he needs to bring the balance and threat back to our game. Or if we are toothless because Gomes has made us toothless and this is his philosophy and how he wants us to play.

We miss Barrow's pace and speed on the counter attack. He is also a winger that can beat full backs and provide service to the front strikers. I think Puscas will come good. He just needs a little bit more help from his team mates to create those guilt edged chances that he can thrive on.

So the loss of Barrow is one reason for our struggles this season. But this was probably outside of Gomes control and probably Gomes would have him in the side if he could.

Another issue is the freezing out of McCleary and Gunter. This might be controversial but Gunter is a very decent wing back if we are playing a 3-5-2 wing back style system. He excelled for Wales in that role and we know Gunter can deliver quality into the box. At the very least Gunter should be involved in first team affairs to provide much needed depth and be another option.

We are struggling to create and be effective in wide areas. So again it beggars belief that a player of McCleary's quality can be frozen out. We are paying for him so we should be using him. Baldock should be involved more as well. These are probably outside of Gomes control. But if Gomes is deliberately choosing to overlook these players then his leadership is on shaky grounds as results are not backing up these decisions.

I like Gomes. I don't like seeing managers get sacked. I am always in favour of sticking with managers. But I hate watching my team play in such an un-intelligent fashion. We are not clever on the pitch. We are not streetwise. We don't use the ball intelligently. We do not attack intelligently in ways that are effective. We don't put balls in dangerous areas often enough. We don't take enough risks when we attack. We always cut back, cut inside and try and retain possession rather than try to thread the needle and put the ball into dangerous areas for Meite, Joao or Puscas to attack. Much of that comes from the coaching.

Whatever the owners decide from their deliberations with Gomes. I support the decision.



Also agree about Gunter and GMac. Not just in that they are not involved in the squad but I do think they have been treated poorly. They


Jesus Zip, you're not having a very good thread are you?

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Hound » 08 Oct 2019 10:06

Stranded And if my auntie had balls....

The fact is they did beat us and have clearly beaten other teams to have the total points they do and be in the position they are. Isn't it usually accepted that after 10 or so games, the league table doesn't massively change over the course of the season - very few clubs shift too many more places one way or another - so I think it is a fair value.

Other way to look at it - if we were in the exact same position and had played Stoke, Barnsley, Luton, Wigan, Millwall, Brentford to date would you still be saying we shouldn't be looking at the leagues position of the oppostion? Fact is we have played sides who have started well and have yet to play the majority of teams, who like us, haven't. This should be considered when discussing the future of the manager.


I'm not sure saying 'they wouldn't be top half of the table if they hadn't beaten us' = 'if my auntie had balls'.

We played a number of teams who have started the season quite well. As you mention, the table doesn't change massively, but its not a massive change to swap Sheff W, Charlton and Cardiff with Derby, Millwall and Birmingham. We've also lost to teams who would be struggling had they not beaten us. It's of interest, but It would be a weak argument for Gomes to make if thats how he would defend our performance this season.

You could cut it other ways as well and say we've played 4 of our 11 and lost to 3 teams in the bottom 10.

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Hendo » 08 Oct 2019 10:18

Old Man Andrews Our last 6 games have been horrendous. Why is it a manager cannot be judged on that? Zip is so blinkered on the Gomes issue, its worrying.


If a manager wins 6 games in a row, do you automatically give him a contract extension and a pay rise?

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by 2 world wars, 1 world cup » 08 Oct 2019 10:19

I'm on the fence about Gomes, but just so we are under no illusions if we sack him the following is *likely* to happen going by past experience (BMcD excepted as he was from within the club/knew it well).

Billy Big Bollox will come in, maybe have a honeymoon game or two, followed by same old shit performances. Initial fan optimism will fade but we'll still be optimistic becuase "it's early days yet". He'll then start disrupting things, make changes to philosophy, formation and we'll be shit. Fans will argue it takes time to instill a new system, which is fair. He'll then start to re-evaluate the likes of Gunter, McCleary, Baldock, Loader even Virginia, Adam etc.. Some will say that's what we were missing, but it will soon become evident they were kept out of the first team for a reason. We're now into January with shit performances, no idea what our best starting line up is, fans arguiing over how and who we should be playing and inevitable calls to back the new man to bring in new faces in January. We make such signings, which will further disrupt the team. We will have spirited performances here and there but nothing will be convincing and the whole time fans will be saying it takes time for the new manager to get to know his players and for them to learn the new system. The season fizzles out with us having beaten relegation but still generally a shit season.

All summer fans left on here will be arguing as to whether we did the right thing not giving Gomes a longer time as we gained nothing brinign in the new man. Some will say there are signs of significant improvement, some will say he's no better than what we had with Gomes. We may then see another splash of cash ( if we can) as more new players join and we end up with a mediocre first few games of the season again.

I'd love the above to be wrong, and we get some genius who can instantly see our issues, stop the zonal marking and playing it out from the back crap and get us winning games and shooting up the league like Brian did. I just don't see that as being very likely.

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Re: GOMES OUT!

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Oct 2019 10:21

Hendo
Old Man Andrews Our last 6 games have been horrendous. Why is it a manager cannot be judged on that? Zip is so blinkered on the Gomes issue, its worrying.


If a manager wins 6 games in a row, do you automatically give him a contract extension and a pay rise?

No.

You do sack them if they clearly cannot get the best out of an above average first XI and end up in the relegation zone whilst showing very little understanding on how to fix it though. Especially if the minimum requirement before the season started was just basic improvement.

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