Defence

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Delboy
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Defence

by Delboy » 02 Oct 2019 06:36

All the talk on the radio is about our expensive attack. But the key is the defence, we have only kept one clean sheet in 10 matches and let in early goals all the time, teams then shut up shop and make it difficult for us to penetrate . The balance of the team is wrong particularly in midfield, what is John O’Shea doing ? We have the players not the system.

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Re: Defence

by Old Man Andrews » 02 Oct 2019 07:45

Well worth a new thread as always Delboy.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Defence

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Oct 2019 07:54

Told you all John O'Shea was a waste of space.

No shape, no organisation, no team work, no clue. Moore's got even worse. The full backs don't defend. Everyone is running around like headless chickens trying to plug gaps and leaving bigger ones.

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Re: Defence

by Forbury Lion » 02 Oct 2019 11:16

Back in the Pardew days, You had Alan Pardew ex attacker as manager and Martin Allen ex defender as assistant.

Pardew actually said on BBC Berks that Allen used to concentrate on the strikers in training and Pardew the defence, It makes sense as by knowing their own playing areas well they can advise those they would have been up against how to exploit them.

With this in mind, Maybe O'Shea is there to train the attackers on how to exploit a defence rather than the defenders on how to play like he did.

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Re: Defence

by Vision » 02 Oct 2019 11:20

Forbury Lion Back in the Pardew days, You had Alan Pardew ex attacker as manager and Martin Allen ex defender as assistant.

Pardew actually said on BBC Berks that Allen used to concentrate on the strikers in training and Pardew the defence, It makes sense as by knowing their own playing areas well they can advise those they would have been up against how to exploit them.

With this in mind, Maybe O'Shea is there to train the attackers on how to exploit a defence rather than the defenders on how to play like he did.


Martin Allen and Alan Pardew were both midfielders.


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Re: Defence

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Oct 2019 11:23

What's the soonest Gomes' record can be worse than Clement's?

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Re: Defence

by Sutekh » 02 Oct 2019 13:41

Snowflake Royal What's the soonest Gomes' record can be worse than Clement's?


As of today I make it that the management record for PC and JG (for LEAGUE games only) at Reading is

Mr Clement

P 28 W 6 D 8 L 14 win ratio = 21.43% - points = 0.92ppg

Mr Gomes

P 33 W 8 D 12 L 13 win ratio 24.24% - points = 1.09ppg

Therefore I reckon it’ll take another 5 games without a win for the win ratio to drop below 21.43%

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Re: Defence

by Forbury Lion » 02 Oct 2019 15:27

Vision
Forbury Lion Back in the Pardew days, You had Alan Pardew ex attacker as manager and Martin Allen ex defender as assistant.

Pardew actually said on BBC Berks that Allen used to concentrate on the strikers in training and Pardew the defence, It makes sense as by knowing their own playing areas well they can advise those they would have been up against how to exploit them.

With this in mind, Maybe O'Shea is there to train the attackers on how to exploit a defence rather than the defenders on how to play like he did.


Martin Allen and Alan Pardew were both midfielders.
wasn't Pardew more of an attacking midfielder and Allen more of a defensive midfielder?

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Re: Defence

by Forbury Lion » 02 Oct 2019 15:28

Sutekh
Snowflake Royal What's the soonest Gomes' record can be worse than Clement's?


As of today I make it that the management record for PC and JG (for LEAGUE games only) at Reading is

Mr Clement

P 28 W 6 D 8 L 14 win ratio = 21.43% - points = 0.92ppg

Mr Gomes

P 33 W 8 D 12 L 13 win ratio 24.24% - points = 1.09ppg

Therefore I reckon it’ll take another 5 games without a win for the win ratio to drop below 21.43%
Is it worth comparing their stats from the start of PC's final season and JG's fin... er current season?


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Re: Defence

by Vision » 02 Oct 2019 15:33

Forbury Lion
Vision
Forbury Lion Back in the Pardew days, You had Alan Pardew ex attacker as manager and Martin Allen ex defender as assistant.

Pardew actually said on BBC Berks that Allen used to concentrate on the strikers in training and Pardew the defence, It makes sense as by knowing their own playing areas well they can advise those they would have been up against how to exploit them.

With this in mind, Maybe O'Shea is there to train the attackers on how to exploit a defence rather than the defenders on how to play like he did.


Martin Allen and Alan Pardew were both midfielders.
wasn't Pardew more of an attacking midfielder and Allen more of a defensive midfielder?


Not really . Both box to box really although Allen used to kick more people than Pardew.

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Re: Defence

by Hound » 02 Oct 2019 15:34

Forbury Lion
Sutekh
Snowflake Royal What's the soonest Gomes' record can be worse than Clement's?


As of today I make it that the management record for PC and JG (for LEAGUE games only) at Reading is

Mr Clement

P 28 W 6 D 8 L 14 win ratio = 21.43% - points = 0.92ppg

Mr Gomes

P 33 W 8 D 12 L 13 win ratio 24.24% - points = 1.09ppg

Therefore I reckon it’ll take another 5 games without a win for the win ratio to drop below 21.43%
Is it worth comparing their stats from the start of PC's final season and JG's fin... er current season?


I make PCs P20 W4 D6 L10
JG P10 W2 D2 L6

so both at 20% Win. JG 8 pmts from 10 games (0. 8 ), PC slightly better at 18 from 20 (0.9)

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Re: Defence

by Ascotexgunner » 02 Oct 2019 15:50

Snowflake Royal Told you all John O'Shea was a waste of space.

No shape, no organisation, no team work, no clue. Moore's got even worse. The full backs don't defend. Everyone is running around like headless chickens trying to plug gaps and leaving bigger ones.


I have to agree, how many times does the ball come out from a clearance and theres a gaping hole between the full backs and the centre backs. Last night it was the reverse, both Centrebacks seems to be where the full backs should be.....Its utterly appalling how we defend.
W have 4 decent centrebacks at this club and they are looking utter garbage with the system (if there is indeed a system) They seem to be marking space most of the time.

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Re: Defence

by Hound » 02 Oct 2019 15:52

Ascotexgunner
Snowflake Royal Told you all John O'Shea was a waste of space.

No shape, no organisation, no team work, no clue. Moore's got even worse. The full backs don't defend. Everyone is running around like headless chickens trying to plug gaps and leaving bigger ones.


I have to agree, how many times does the ball come out from a clearance and theres a gaping hole between the full backs and the centre backs. Last night it was the reverse, both Centrebacks seems to be where the full backs should be.....Its utterly appalling how we defend.
W have 4 decent centrebacks at this club and they are looking utter garbage with the system (if there is indeed a system) They seem to be marking space most of the time.


Its the fact that it happens over and over and over again that is bloody killing me whilst watching us.

Charlton (2nd half) rinsed us in the FB positions, Blackburn all match - Fulham - first goal the same thing again. Seeing the highlights of Fulhams first goal, I think we had 7 men back and yet Cairney completely alone in the D

The FBs are just stuck in no mans land. Too far forward to defend, and too far back to get crosses in


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Re: Defence

by Ascotexgunner » 02 Oct 2019 16:14

Hound
Ascotexgunner
Snowflake Royal Told you all John O'Shea was a waste of space.

No shape, no organisation, no team work, no clue. Moore's got even worse. The full backs don't defend. Everyone is running around like headless chickens trying to plug gaps and leaving bigger ones.


I have to agree, how many times does the ball come out from a clearance and theres a gaping hole between the full backs and the centre backs. Last night it was the reverse, both Centrebacks seems to be where the full backs should be.....Its utterly appalling how we defend.
W have 4 decent centrebacks at this club and they are looking utter garbage with the system (if there is indeed a system) They seem to be marking space most of the time.


Its the fact that it happens over and over and over again that is bloody killing me whilst watching us.

Charlton (2nd half) rinsed us in the FB positions, Blackburn all match - Fulham - first goal the same thing again. Seeing the highlights of Fulhams first goal, I think we had 7 men back and yet Cairney completely alone in the D

The FBs are just stuck in no mans land. Too far forward to defend, and too far back to get crosses in


Its a very dangerous system he is playing. I get the full backs too high up but when the ball comes in do they go to some sort of zonal thing and its like their told to stand and cover areas when everyones back? I just don't see how it all is supposed to work. Ive watched Miazga as I like him, he has a great defensive brain....he watches and sees the danger and covers the space but then I see Moore running back and Morrison running back in the same way and they just seem to be like robots looking at where their running to rather than the danger of players lurking on the edge of the box. I don't know....Im confused it just seems a mess to me.

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Re: Defence

by Sutekh » 02 Oct 2019 16:26

Get the impression he’s trying to get Reading to play like Liverpool but is falling well short currently.

If you look at the type of players/formations Liverpool use then that’s basically what you want at Reading to be aiming at.

Being at a lower level should mean you don’t quite need world class internationals but all the same you still need a certain amount of quality (which I think is there to a degree) plus a high level of fitness and pace. From current experience watching Reading my impression is that the high level of fitness and pace do seem to be rather lacking.

Therefore perhaps JG should look to play another way in the interim.

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Re: Defence

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Oct 2019 17:30

Hound
Forbury Lion
Sutekh
As of today I make it that the management record for PC and JG (for LEAGUE games only) at Reading is

Mr Clement

P 28 W 6 D 8 L 14 win ratio = 21.43% - points = 0.92ppg

Mr Gomes

P 33 W 8 D 12 L 13 win ratio 24.24% - points = 1.09ppg

Therefore I reckon it’ll take another 5 games without a win for the win ratio to drop below 21.43%
Is it worth comparing their stats from the start of PC's final season and JG's fin... er current season?


I make PCs P20 W4 D6 L10
JG P10 W2 D2 L6

so both at 20% Win. JG 8 pmts from 10 games (0. 8 ), PC slightly better at 18 from 20 (0.9)

Cheers guys.

Clement was slowly improving (with set backs) from a winless first 5 I think.

Didn't expect it to be possible to equalise quite that quick.

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Re: Defence

by Hound » 02 Oct 2019 17:34

Of course it ms easy to fit stats to suit your agenda, but I think it was fairly recognised that we were slowly improving under PC

I’m guessing PCs last 10 were significantly better than JGs last 10

Gomes has undoubtedly gone backwards this season

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Re: Defence

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Oct 2019 17:53

Hound Of course it ms easy to fit stats to suit your agenda, but I think it was fairly recognised that we were slowly improving under PC

I’m guessing PCs last 10 were significantly better than JGs last 10

Gomes has undoubtedly gone backwards this season

Depended a bit on how you cut the cake. And it helped that the start was abysmal so there was plenty of room for improvement.

But breaking the 20 down into 6 game chunks there was a clear, but slight trend of improvement, with the last 2 showing a little stutter.

It was more up and down on an even 5 game chunk up, but maybe just about an upwards trend.

The key point for me is how we utterly fell apart when Clement left, getting something like 1 or 2 points in the next 5 or 6 games. Which very much suggested to me we hadn't done anything to remove the problem, in fact had removed a possible limited solution.

Gomes obviously did the job and rightly got the plaudits (thanks to 5 super loanees Clement could only dream of having). But he has to build from there. And after an improved start to the season, we've fallen apart.

The trend right now under Gomes is definitely worsening, rather than stable or slightly improving under Clement. Which is why I think his departure is just a matter or weeks away. I don't buy 2-3 games, but if he's still here on 16th December without a big turnaround I'll be shocked. Because we know how the club operates. They pull the trigger.

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Re: Defence

by Hound » 02 Oct 2019 17:56

Very tough fixtures in October - could easily go 10 without a win

November looks a lot easier on paper, but fail to win against the likes of Millwall if we haven’t picked up points in October and he’ll be gone very quickly

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