BFTG Bristol

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Millsy
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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Millsy » 06 Oct 2019 13:51

Snowball
URZZZZ
Because part of the reason for the "shambolic defensive organisation" is down to Gomes himself. Why oh why do our fullbacks play so far forward? A good manager would identify the problem and alter his ways. But we haven't. And it's ridiculous



Hold on a minute.

We have had half-a-dozen goals against this season that are 90% the fault of the 2 or 3 CBs

There is no excuse for giving away regular free headers in the middle of the goal.

No matter how good the cross (or bad the fullback play) the CBs should be making the
play difficult for the forwards.

But may of the goals are BAD goals, like Bristol, Swansea, Hull.

I very much doubt that Gomes is instructing players NOT to defend. It's probable that
he leaves that coaching to the defensive coaches. One or more of them is not doing his job



Exactly. So we do agree on something.

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by URZZZZ » 06 Oct 2019 13:54

Yeah, the centre backs can do more but when they're constantly pulled out of position having to cover the fullbacks, it doesn't make their job easy does it?

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Snowball » 06 Oct 2019 13:55

2 world wars, 1 world cup Ok so we don't know O'Shea's role. We don't know who brought him in. Whatever his role, an area we need desperate improvement in is our defensive organisation.

As for O'Shea automatically being a great defensive coach just because he was physically good at defending I'm sorry Snowball I respectfully disagree.



STRAW MAN ALERT

Quote what I write, not what you invent

I actually said:

Snowball That, with his badges, ought to make him at least a competent defensive coach.

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Snowball » 06 Oct 2019 13:56

URZZZZ Yeah, the centre backs can do more but when they're constantly pulled out of position having to cover the fullbacks, it doesn't make their job easy does it?


For the free headers they have been in or very near the six yard box, and central

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Snowflake Royal » 06 Oct 2019 13:58

URZZZZ Yeah, the centre backs can do more but when they're constantly pulled out of position having to cover the fullbacks, it doesn't make their job easy does it?

They're very clearly being instructed to play some zonal bullshit and mark space.


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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Snowflake Royal » 06 Oct 2019 13:58

Snowball
2 world wars, 1 world cup Ok so we don't know O'Shea's role. We don't know who brought him in. Whatever his role, an area we need desperate improvement in is our defensive organisation.

As for O'Shea automatically being a great defensive coach just because he was physically good at defending I'm sorry Snowball I respectfully disagree.



STRAW MAN ALERT

Quote what I write, not what you invent

I actually said:

Snowball That, with his badges, ought to make him at least a competent defensive coach.

Why would it make him a competent defensive coach? Playing and coaching are different skills.

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Millsy » 06 Oct 2019 14:55

Snowball
2 world wars, 1 world cup Ok so we don't know O'Shea's role. We don't know who brought him in. Whatever his role, an area we need desperate improvement in is our defensive organisation.

As for O'Shea automatically being a great defensive coach just because he was physically good at defending I'm sorry Snowball I respectfully disagree.



STRAW MAN ALERT

Quote what I write, not what you invent

I actually said:

Snowball That, with his badges, ought to make him at least a competent defensive coach.



Calm down mate and don’t shout please.

Obvi-f**cking-ously for someone to be a coach they need their badges. No straw man here, unless you decide to interpret my comment in a weird way. You think that physically being a good defender means you are likely to be a good coach, at least one good enough to get a job straight after qualification in a championship club and to sort out our long-standing defensive issues. “At least competent”/“great” I don’t care. I respectfully disagree. You believe it so much so that:

Snowball We seem to let in a fair number of goals (often early)
that are all of the same type

....

It makes so little sense (if O'Shea is the defensive coach)

Could it be we have behind-the-scenes issues? For example a Portugese
coach is out-ranking O'Shea who is "climbing up the wall" in frustration?


...you seem to think it such a foregone conclusion that he must be good enough that you suggest that he might be shut up by someone Portuguese.

No, how about his physical attributes and previous defensive ability has little to do with it and maybe he’s just not good enough.

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Millsy » 06 Oct 2019 23:10

Snowball
URZZZZ
Because part of the reason for the "shambolic defensive organisation" is down to Gomes himself. Why oh why do our fullbacks play so far forward? A good manager would identify the problem and alter his ways. But we haven't. And it's ridiculous



Hold on a minute.

We have had half-a-dozen goals against this season that are 90% the fault of the 2 or 3 CBs

There is no excuse for giving away regular free headers in the middle of the goal.

No matter how good the cross (or bad the fullback play) the CBs should be making the
play difficult for the forwards.

But may of the goals are BAD goals, like Bristol, Swansea, Hull.

I very much doubt that Gomes is instructing players NOT to defend. It's probable that
he leaves that coaching to the defensive coaches. One or more of them is not doing his job



In fact I just watched the replay again to make sure it wasn't a case of of wingbacks up the other end of the pitch because I didn't remember it like that.

Nope all 5 were in place in a line.

It doesn't make sense how the scorer had a completely free header.

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by URZZZZ » 06 Oct 2019 23:12

2 world wars, 1 world cup
Snowball
URZZZZ
Because part of the reason for the "shambolic defensive organisation" is down to Gomes himself. Why oh why do our fullbacks play so far forward? A good manager would identify the problem and alter his ways. But we haven't. And it's ridiculous



Hold on a minute.

We have had half-a-dozen goals against this season that are 90% the fault of the 2 or 3 CBs

There is no excuse for giving away regular free headers in the middle of the goal.

No matter how good the cross (or bad the fullback play) the CBs should be making the
play difficult for the forwards.

But may of the goals are BAD goals, like Bristol, Swansea, Hull.

I very much doubt that Gomes is instructing players NOT to defend. It's probable that
he leaves that coaching to the defensive coaches. One or more of them is not doing his job



In fact I just watched the replay again to make sure it wasn't a case of of wingbacks up the other end of the pitch because I didn't remember it like that.

Nope all 5 were in place in a line.

It doesn't make sense how the scorer had a completely free header.


I did say yesterday, it wasn’t a case of wingbacks being too far forward for the goal. But generally, that has been the case. Just watch Blackburn’s two goals against us


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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Millsy » 07 Oct 2019 07:57

URZZZZ
2 world wars, 1 world cup
Snowball
Hold on a minute.

We have had half-a-dozen goals against this season that are 90% the fault of the 2 or 3 CBs

There is no excuse for giving away regular free headers in the middle of the goal.

No matter how good the cross (or bad the fullback play) the CBs should be making the
play difficult for the forwards.

But may of the goals are BAD goals, like Bristol, Swansea, Hull.

I very much doubt that Gomes is instructing players NOT to defend. It's probable that
he leaves that coaching to the defensive coaches. One or more of them is not doing his job



In fact I just watched the replay again to make sure it wasn't a case of of wingbacks up the other end of the pitch because I didn't remember it like that.

Nope all 5 were in place in a line.

It doesn't make sense how the scorer had a completely free header.


I did say yesterday, it wasn’t a case of wingbacks being too far forward for the goal. But generally, that has been the case. Just watch Blackburn’s two goals against us


True. Both WBs going forward at once will leave us exposed to a degree but that's clearly not the only issue. If they can't do the basics with 5 across the back they're not going to stand a chance with 3. On the other hand, a solid defensive unit that can cope with basic defending may be able to cope with 3 in the centre every now and then. Surely 5-3-2/3-5-2 isn't some brand new mystery position, but is something teams around the world have been doing/still do for years.

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Oct 2019 08:32

2 world wars, 1 world cup
Snowball
URZZZZ
Because part of the reason for the "shambolic defensive organisation" is down to Gomes himself. Why oh why do our fullbacks play so far forward? A good manager would identify the problem and alter his ways. But we haven't. And it's ridiculous



Hold on a minute.

We have had half-a-dozen goals against this season that are 90% the fault of the 2 or 3 CBs

There is no excuse for giving away regular free headers in the middle of the goal.

No matter how good the cross (or bad the fullback play) the CBs should be making the
play difficult for the forwards.

But may of the goals are BAD goals, like Bristol, Swansea, Hull.

I very much doubt that Gomes is instructing players NOT to defend. It's probable that
he leaves that coaching to the defensive coaches. One or more of them is not doing his job



In fact I just watched the replay again to make sure it wasn't a case of of wingbacks up the other end of the pitch because I didn't remember it like that.

Nope all 5 were in place in a line.

It doesn't make sense how the scorer had a completely free header.

Miazga Mark's space instead of his man and Yiadom is wrong side marking space not his man.

If I had to guess what the hell Miazga was thinking, it would be this:

"Yiadom is never there because he plays so high, so I have to hedge my bets and guard the back post, if I get sucked in to Moore by following, there's a decent chance the ball goes over me to a free player, at least here I can see what's going to happen, hedge my bets and get close in time to challen.... oh bugger."

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Hound » 07 Oct 2019 08:48

I think it was just rustiness on Miazga's part tbh. Must take the big portion of the blame. Not played for a while and received a whack in the chops ten minutes or so before. Richards just allowed the crosser to take his time and pick the pass as well.

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by John Smith » 07 Oct 2019 11:42

Snowflake Royal Miazga Mark's space instead of his man and Yiadom is wrong side marking space not his man.

If I had to guess what the hell Miazga was thinking, it would be this:

"Yiadom is never there because he plays so high, so I have to hedge my bets and guard the back post, if I get sucked in to Moore by following, there's a decent chance the ball goes over me to a free player, at least here I can see what's going to happen, hedge my bets and get close in time to challen.... oh bugger."

You really mean well and clearly support the team massively but you really have no idea and have never played the game at any level.


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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Millsy » 07 Oct 2019 12:05

Hence the guess.

Adie Williams and Mick Gooding have played at a high level and reckon the defenders are zonal (space) marking I think.

Maybe they're just shite and incapable of man marking. Maybe there is no clarity from the defensive coach or Gomes so they're confused. Also not a pro, not sure, just speculating as is everyone here.

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Oct 2019 12:38

John Smith
Snowflake Royal Miazga Mark's space instead of his man and Yiadom is wrong side marking space not his man.

If I had to guess what the hell Miazga was thinking, it would be this:

"Yiadom is never there because he plays so high, so I have to hedge my bets and guard the back post, if I get sucked in to Moore by following, there's a decent chance the ball goes over me to a free player, at least here I can see what's going to happen, hedge my bets and get close in time to challen.... oh bugger."

You really mean well and clearly support the team massively but you really have no idea and have never played the game at any level.

Troll off nob ead.

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by 3points » 07 Oct 2019 12:51

There's a subscription based coaching thing on Twitter called Coaches Voice. They released some previews a couple of weeks ago, one of which was Jose Gomes. One thing I remember (though not specifically a centre back in the penalty box demo) was for players to mark spaces when defending outside the area. he aid if you follow the player then you open up the space!! So it wouldn't surprise me if that's his mantra across the pitch.

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Oct 2019 13:03

3points There's a subscription based coaching thing on Twitter called Coaches Voice. They released some previews a couple of weeks ago, one of which was Jose Gomes. One thing I remember (though not specifically a centre back in the penalty box demo) was for players to mark spaces when defending outside the area. he aid if you follow the player then you open up the space!! So it wouldn't surprise me if that's his mantra across the pitch.

It's so clearly his coaching. And it's so obviously bollocks.

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Millsy » 07 Oct 2019 15:24

3points There's a subscription based coaching thing on Twitter called Coaches Voice. They released some previews a couple of weeks ago, one of which was Jose Gomes. One thing I remember (though not specifically a centre back in the penalty box demo) was for players to mark spaces when defending outside the area. he aid if you follow the player then you open up the space!! So it wouldn't surprise me if that's his mantra across the pitch.


*cringe*

I'm not football pro, only played for my college (and it was *always* about marking your man), but presumably this sort of thing does work somewhere for some people right? It just seems such a dumb thing to me but that's why I do what I do and coaches do what they do. I love Adie's take on it: "I've never seen space score a goal". Unless there is a striker somewhere called Space.... :?

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Denver Royal » 07 Oct 2019 15:32

2 world wars, 1 world cup
3points There's a subscription based coaching thing on Twitter called Coaches Voice. They released some previews a couple of weeks ago, one of which was Jose Gomes. One thing I remember (though not specifically a centre back in the penalty box demo) was for players to mark spaces when defending outside the area. he aid if you follow the player then you open up the space!! So it wouldn't surprise me if that's his mantra across the pitch.


*cringe*

I'm not football pro, only played for my college (and it was *always* about marking your man), but presumably this sort of thing does work somewhere for some people right? It just seems such a dumb thing to me but that's why I do what I do and coaches do what they do. I love Adie's take on it: "I've never seen space score a goal". Unless there is a striker somewhere called Space.... :?

Ha, I played against someone called Mark Space :wink:

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Re: BFTG Bristol

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Oct 2019 17:10

Thing is, from my incredibly poor 5 a side standard, and watching professional football for a quarter of a century I kinda see what he probably means and it's good. He's just taken it way too far.

You can't just try to man mark because that will pull your shape all over the place and create space to allow people to burst into. You have to mark certain areas of space and you have to have hand overs, but equally you can't just ignore the players and stick to the space.

It has to be a blend of the two, which is obviously hard, we're just way too far down one extreme.

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