MATCHWATCH : Stoke City (a) sponsored by Ibrahima Sonko

[Snowflake Royal]

Having a look at other results around the league it strikes me that despite us having a defence that is, at times, truly calamitous we havent really been beaten by a large margin by teams who have gone and beaten other teams by a large margin. Seems odd.

Our defence hasn't been calamitous since Gomes left, and even then it wasn't totally sieve like.

We negate the dangerous teams pretty well. We just don't finish enough to relieve pressure.

[NewCorkSeth]

Having a look at other results around the league it strikes me that despite us having a defence that is, at times, truly calamitous we havent really been beaten by a large margin by teams who have gone and beaten other teams by a large margin. Seems odd.

Our defence hasn't been calamitous since Gomes left, and even then it wasn't totally sieve like.

We negate the dangerous teams pretty well. We just don't finish enough to relieve pressure.

In the last game we conceded a goal by passing it across the goalmouth....

Every game there is something stupid like poor passes back to the GK or tackles made for no reason.

[Snowflake Royal]

Having a look at other results around the league it strikes me that despite us having a defence that is, at times, truly calamitous we havent really been beaten by a large margin by teams who have gone and beaten other teams by a large margin. Seems odd.

Our defence hasn't been calamitous since Gomes left, and even then it wasn't totally sieve like.

We negate the dangerous teams pretty well. We just don't finish enough to relieve pressure.

In the last game we conceded a goal by passing it across the goalmouth....

Every game there is something stupid like poor passes back to the GK or tackles made for no reason.

You'll find defensive lapses in most teams. There are 15 teams who have conceded more goals than us and 2 on the same amount.

There are also 15 sides that have scored more than us.

[Snowball]

This has the makings of an absolute classic. Have been looking forward to it for weeks. I really think Sam Baldock is going to step up to the plate here - I sense shades of Preston (a) last season when the young man had a stormer.

We might go a goal down, perhaps but we will win this game. I urge all supporters to travel to this one or they will miss out on one of the great away days.

Mystic Meg!

[NewCorkSeth]

Our defence hasn't been calamitous since Gomes left, and even then it wasn't totally sieve like.

We negate the dangerous teams pretty well. We just don't finish enough to relieve pressure.

In the last game we conceded a goal by passing it across the goalmouth....

Every game there is something stupid like poor passes back to the GK or tackles made for no reason.

You'll find defensive lapses in most teams. There are 15 teams who have conceded more goals than us and 2 on the same amount.

There are also 15 sides that have scored more than us.

Not sure I follow your objection to my original comment. We are at times calamitous. We frequently discuss on here our problems in defence. We are very often error prone and for large patches of this season we have had individuals look very uncomfortable on the ball. Yet despite all that we actually have a decent defensive record. Certainly better than I expected when looking over the results of other teams. The only thrashing we received (unless I'm forgetting something) was when we were a man down against Fulham.

Do other teams have defensive lapses? Of course. But the frequency of our defenders errors has not yet yielded results I would expect. Which is odd. It's not like we have Al-Habsi making incredible game changing saves anymore.

I'm just surprised to find a little positive step for our defenders who I often come away from a game thinking "what were they thinking?"

I reckon we would struggle to find a game so far this season where one of our defenders didnt make a massive error.

[URZZZZ]

In the last game we conceded a goal by passing it across the goalmouth....

Every game there is something stupid like poor passes back to the GK or tackles made for no reason.

You'll find defensive lapses in most teams. There are 15 teams who have conceded more goals than us and 2 on the same amount.

There are also 15 sides that have scored more than us.

Not sure I follow your objection to my original comment. We are at times calamitous. We frequently discuss on here our problems in defence. We are very often error prone and for large patches of this season we have had individuals look very uncomfortable on the ball. Yet despite all that we actually have a decent defensive record. Certainly better than I expected when looking over the results of other teams. The only thrashing we received (unless I'm forgetting something) was when we were a man down against Fulham.

Do other teams have defensive lapses? Of course. But the frequency of our defenders errors has not yet yielded results I would expect. Which is odd. It's not like we have Al-Habsi making incredible game changing saves anymore.

I'm just surprised to find a little positive step for our defenders who I often come away from a game thinking "what were they thinking?"

I reckon we would struggle to find a game so far this season where one of our defenders didnt make a massive error.

Preston? Luton? Leeds? Cardiff? West Brom?

[NewCorkSeth]

You'll find defensive lapses in most teams. There are 15 teams who have conceded more goals than us and 2 on the same amount.

There are also 15 sides that have scored more than us.

Not sure I follow your objection to my original comment. We are at times calamitous. We frequently discuss on here our problems in defence. We are very often error prone and for large patches of this season we have had individuals look very uncomfortable on the ball. Yet despite all that we actually have a decent defensive record. Certainly better than I expected when looking over the results of other teams. The only thrashing we received (unless I'm forgetting something) was when we were a man down against Fulham.

Do other teams have defensive lapses? Of course. But the frequency of our defenders errors has not yet yielded results I would expect. Which is odd. It's not like we have Al-Habsi making incredible game changing saves anymore.

I'm just surprised to find a little positive step for our defenders who I often come away from a game thinking "what were they thinking?"

I reckon we would struggle to find a game so far this season where one of our defenders didnt make a massive error.

Preston? Luton? Leeds? Cardiff? West Brom?

Yeah. I reckon there were errors in each of those games. Certainly there was in Preston and Leeds. Cardiff and Luton might be a struggle actually but the point remains despite my over selling it.

[Snowflake Royal]

Not sure I follow your objection to my original comment. We are at times calamitous. We frequently discuss on here our problems in defence. We are very often error prone and for large patches of this season we have had individuals look very uncomfortable on the ball. Yet despite all that we actually have a decent defensive record. Certainly better than I expected when looking over the results of other teams. The only thrashing we received (unless I'm forgetting something) was when we were a man down against Fulham.

Do other teams have defensive lapses? Of course. But the frequency of our defenders errors has not yet yielded results I would expect. Which is odd. It's not like we have Al-Habsi making incredible game changing saves anymore.

I'm just surprised to find a little positive step for our defenders who I often come away from a game thinking "what were they thinking?"

I reckon we would struggle to find a game so far this season where one of our defenders didnt make a massive error.

Preston? Luton? Leeds? Cardiff? West Brom?

Yeah. I reckon there were errors in each of those games. Certainly there was in Preston and Leeds. Cardiff and Luton might be a struggle actually but the point remains despite my over selling it.

Err.. so what were they?

I think you're overstating the issue.

[NewCorkSeth]

Preston? Luton? Leeds? Cardiff? West Brom?

Yeah. I reckon there were errors in each of those games. Certainly there was in Preston and Leeds. Cardiff and Luton might be a struggle actually but the point remains despite my over selling it.

Err.. so what were they?

I think you're overstating the issue.

How? I am literally stating my surprise that it is not an issue.
Over xmas I will go back and watch each game and give you a breakdown with time stamps if you want but for example Obita had a pass completion rate of 38% against Preston. That certainly seems calamitous to me.

[Snowflake Royal]

Yeah. I reckon there were errors in each of those games. Certainly there was in Preston and Leeds. Cardiff and Luton might be a struggle actually but the point remains despite my over selling it.

Err.. so what were they?

I think you're overstating the issue.

How? I am literally stating my surprise that it is not an issue.
Over xmas I will go back and watch each game and give you a breakdown with time stamps if you want but for example Obita had a pass completion rate of 38% against Preston. That certainly seems calamitous to me.

You call the defence calamitous and are surprised we don't concede more. I'm saying we concede what I expect because the defence simply isn't calamitous.

I don't see how you can call the defence calamitous because one player in one game had a low pass success. That's not defending for a start.

You said we made errors in those games, but you can't actually reference one. Personally, if I couldn't think of a single example, I don't see how I could say they happened. Hardly the definition of calamitous.

[NewCorkSeth]

Err.. so what were they?

I think you're overstating the issue.

How? I am literally stating my surprise that it is not an issue.
Over xmas I will go back and watch each game and give you a breakdown with time stamps if you want but for example Obita had a pass completion rate of 38% against Preston. That certainly seems calamitous to me.

You call the defence calamitous and are surprised we don't concede more. I'm saying we concede what I expect because the defence simply isn't calamitous.

I don't see how you can call the defence calamitous because one player in one game had a low pass success. That's not defending for a start.

You said we made errors in those games, but you can't actually reference one. Personally, if I couldn't think of a single example, I don't see how I could say they happened. Hardly the definition of calamitous.

You're doing that annoying thing again where you choose 1 word and run with it out of context. I said our defence is, AT TIMES, calamitous. Not our defending. Our defence. A player completing just over 1 in 3 of his passes is awful. It doesnt have to have anything to do with defending because I didnt say our defending was the problem.

I said I think it would be a struggle to name a game one of our defenders didnt make a mistake. Someone naming games isnt proof a mistake didnt happen. If you are going to say I cant say we probably made mistakes in those games then you cant say we probably didnt make mistakes on those games. Cuts both ways.

[URZZZZ]

How? I am literally stating my surprise that it is not an issue.
Over xmas I will go back and watch each game and give you a breakdown with time stamps if you want but for example Obita had a pass completion rate of 38% against Preston. That certainly seems calamitous to me.

You call the defence calamitous and are surprised we don't concede more. I'm saying we concede what I expect because the defence simply isn't calamitous.

I don't see how you can call the defence calamitous because one player in one game had a low pass success. That's not defending for a start.

You said we made errors in those games, but you can't actually reference one. Personally, if I couldn't think of a single example, I don't see how I could say they happened. Hardly the definition of calamitous.

You're doing that annoying thing again where you choose 1 word and run with it out of context. I said our defence is, AT TIMES, calamitous. Not our defending. Our defence. A player completing just over 1 in 3 of his passes is awful. It doesnt have to have anything to do with defending because I didnt say our defending was the problem.

I said I think it would be a struggle to name a game one of our defenders didnt make a mistake. Someone naming games isnt proof a mistake didnt happen. If you are going to say I cant say we probably made mistakes in those games then you cant say we probably didnt make mistakes on those games. Cuts both ways.

I’d say your main original point, that we never seem to get a thrashing is because generally against those teams who do score more we set up more to defend, such as at West Brom, Leeds and Brentford

[Hound]

Seeing some of the highlights of recent goals conceded in the champ, wouldn’t say our defence looks particularly more of a calamity then anyone else much (lolz at Wigan keeper against wba esp)

I don’t think we’re that prone to shocking mistakes - silly lapses of concentration and not marking tightly enough at times maybe

But we’re generally reasonably solid

[Snowflake Royal]

How? I am literally stating my surprise that it is not an issue.
Over xmas I will go back and watch each game and give you a breakdown with time stamps if you want but for example Obita had a pass completion rate of 38% against Preston. That certainly seems calamitous to me.

You call the defence calamitous and are surprised we don't concede more. I'm saying we concede what I expect because the defence simply isn't calamitous.

I don't see how you can call the defence calamitous because one player in one game had a low pass success. That's not defending for a start.

You said we made errors in those games, but you can't actually reference one. Personally, if I couldn't think of a single example, I don't see how I could say they happened. Hardly the definition of calamitous.

You're doing that annoying thing again where you choose 1 word and run with it out of context. I said our defence is, AT TIMES, calamitous. Not our defending. Our defence. A player completing just over 1 in 3 of his passes is awful. It doesnt have to have anything to do with defending because I didnt say our defending was the problem.

I said I think it would be a struggle to name a game one of our defenders didnt make a mistake. Someone naming games isnt proof a mistake didnt happen. If you are going to say I cant say we probably made mistakes in those games then you cant say we probably didnt make mistakes on those games. Cuts both ways.

Calm down.

You think our defence is a problem. I don't. You're surprised we haven't conceded more, I'm not. That's not nit picking one word.

I didn't say our defence didn't make mistakes either. I think they make a fairly normal number of normal mistakes. You think they make disproportionately many serious mistakes. If you want to assert that, you ought to be able to bring up examples.

We're on the subject of defence, errors and goals against. How is that not about defending and conceding...

[NewCorkSeth]

You call the defence calamitous and are surprised we don't concede more. I'm saying we concede what I expect because the defence simply isn't calamitous.

I don't see how you can call the defence calamitous because one player in one game had a low pass success. That's not defending for a start.

You said we made errors in those games, but you can't actually reference one. Personally, if I couldn't think of a single example, I don't see how I could say they happened. Hardly the definition of calamitous.

You're doing that annoying thing again where you choose 1 word and run with it out of context. I said our defence is, AT TIMES, calamitous. Not our defending. Our defence. A player completing just over 1 in 3 of his passes is awful. It doesnt have to have anything to do with defending because I didnt say our defending was the problem.

I said I think it would be a struggle to name a game one of our defenders didnt make a mistake. Someone naming games isnt proof a mistake didnt happen. If you are going to say I cant say we probably made mistakes in those games then you cant say we probably didnt make mistakes on those games. Cuts both ways.

Calm down.

You think our defence is a problem. I don't. You're surprised we haven't conceded more, I'm not. That's not nit picking one word.

I didn't say our defence didn't make mistakes either. I think they make a fairly normal number of normal mistakes. You think they make disproportionately many serious mistakes. If you want to assert that, you ought to be able to bring up examples.

We're on the subject of defence, errors and goals against. How is that not about defending and conceding...

My original comment can be summarised as "I am surprised when looking at the results other teams have gotten against each other that we have done as well as we have considering our defenders are sometimes very bad".

There is nothing wrong with that statement. My inability to point to each individual error is an awful argument. I don't have instant recall.

You think our defence is a problem. I don't.

That's great but I didn't say that did I? At any point.

You think they make disproportionately many serious mistakes. If you want to assert that, you ought to be able to bring up examples.
Well I didn't say that either did I? I said "I reckon we would struggle to find a game so far this season where one of our defenders didn't make a massive error". Naming games we played well doesn't mean there were no mistakes from any defenders in them. Can you state with certainty there was no mistakes made by any of our defenders that, on another day, would have been a goal?

I point out in one of the named games that for every 1 pass Obita completed to a teammate nearly 2 went either to the opposition or out of play and that doesn't count to you because "It's not defending". It doesn't have to be. A defender misplaying a pass that leads to a goal isn't a defensive error. It's an error that happened in defence. Was, in your opinion, the goal conceded against Barnsley a error in defending? In my book its a defensive error but it had oxf*rd all to do with defending. There was no defending to be done. It is pretty clear that saying defenders make mistakes does not only apply to defending just like if I were to say our attacking players make mistakes it would not only apply to attacking. Seriously, you cant actually have trouble seeing that.

Like McCleary fouling in front of the box the other week against Birmingham. That's a defensive error but hes not a defender.

[Westwood52]

If you look at goals against its not too bad.
The problem is we do not score enough goals.

[Old Man Andrews]

If you look at goals against its not too bad.
The problem is we do not score enough goals.

Revolutionary analysis there from Westwood. Mind blowing stuff.

[John Smith]

This has the makings of an absolute classic. Have been looking forward to it for weeks. I really think Sam Baldock is going to step up to the plate here - I sense shades of Preston (a) last season when the young man had a stormer.

We might go a goal down, perhaps but we will win this game. I urge all supporters to travel to this one or they will miss out on one of the great away days.

Mystic Meg!

Corrrr...I'm simply speechless!

[Stranded]

In short, our defence is actually very decent however individual defenders have made massive rickets - it is also fair to say that those errors have not led to goals in some instances. This means that the errors are being made in fairly safe areas or we are able to quickly recover to make up for the individual error.

Bowen has clearly earmarked getting the defence right before we can attack more, injuries to Swift/Ejaria/Baldock/Puscas have meant it has not really been feasible for him to play his preferred attacking options since the last break.

You can see the defence has improved. In the 11 games Gomes had we let in 17 in 11, kept 2 clean sheets and let in 2+ goals in a game 5 times.

Since Bowen's arrival - we've let in just 10 in 10 - 3 clean sheets, only let in 2+ goals in in those games. Take those 2 games out and we've only let in 5 in 8 games.

As is clear the problem is attacking and that is stopping us pull away comfortable but that is improving.

Gomes: Failed to score in 3 games - 11 goals in 11 games
Bowen: Failed to score in 3 games - 14 goals in 10 games

So in short:

Bowen has improved the defense markedly and we are scoring more but for the time being you should only expect games to be won or lost 1-0 with the odd 1-1 or 0-0 thrown in.

[Hound]

So in short:

Bowen has improved the defense markedly and we are scoring more but for the time being you should only expect games to be won or lost 1-0 with the odd 1-1 or 0-0 thrown in.

And interestingly, that's what a lot of the fanbase were calling for when Gomes left, myself included