MATCHWATCH : Stoke City (a) sponsored by Ibrahima Sonko

Westwood52
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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stoke City (a) sponsored by Ibrahima Sonko

by Westwood52 » 16 Dec 2019 10:28

Old Man Andrews
Westwood52 If you look at goals against its not too bad.
The problem is we do not score enough goals.

Revolutionary analysis there from Westwood. Mind blowing stuff.


Have a good Xmas OMA.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stoke City (a) sponsored by Ibrahima Sonko

by Stranded » 16 Dec 2019 12:41

Hound
Stranded So in short:

Bowen has improved the defense markedly and we are scoring more but for the time being you should only expect games to be won or lost 1-0 with the odd 1-1 or 0-0 thrown in.


And interestingly, that's what a lot of the fanbase were calling for when Gomes left, myself included


Yep - but people don't like that reality when it is served up. This is the kind of season we need - grinding out results, keeping our heads above water but getting that mental toughness in place not to roll over as we have done in the past.

When you get a team like this though, the margins are very fine - a team can easily get on a run and win 4 or 5 games on the bounce equally, you can lose the same just as easily - that is why avoiding defeat in these last 2 away games was key - now we need to get momentum from the 2 home games. As if we don't looking at the Preston & Fulham away games starts to become pretty daunting.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stoke City (a) sponsored by Ibrahima Sonko

by leon » 16 Dec 2019 13:02

Stranded
Hound
Stranded So in short:

Bowen has improved the defense markedly and we are scoring more but for the time being you should only expect games to be won or lost 1-0 with the odd 1-1 or 0-0 thrown in.


And interestingly, that's what a lot of the fanbase were calling for when Gomes left, myself included


Yep - but people don't like that reality when it is served up. This is the kind of season we need - grinding out results, keeping our heads above water but getting that mental toughness in place not to roll over as we have done in the past.

When you get a team like this though, the margins are very fine - a team can easily get on a run and win 4 or 5 games on the bounce equally, you can lose the same just as easily - that is why avoiding defeat in these last 2 away games was key - now we need to get momentum from the 2 home games. As if we don't looking at the Preston & Fulham away games starts to become pretty daunting.


Bit like when George Graham took over Leeds all those years back.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stoke City (a) sponsored by Ibrahima Sonko

by Snowflake Royal » 16 Dec 2019 17:45

Yeah. And under Gomes the structure of the defence was a shambles and we were being carved open at will.

Now we're mostly solid with the occasional lapse, just like most of the rest of the division.

You've seen goals coming under Bowen, but not because teams are running through us and creating lots of chances, but because we're being pinned back because we're not going forward effectively and sooner or later that forces a small error that leads to a goal.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stoke City (a) sponsored by Ibrahima Sonko

by URZZZZ » 16 Dec 2019 18:37

Snowflake Royal Yeah. And under Gomes the structure of the defence was a shambles and we were being carved open at will.

Now we're mostly solid with the occasional lapse, just like most of the rest of the division.

You've seen goals coming under Bowen, but not because teams are running through us and creating lots of chances, but because we're being pinned back because we're not going forward effectively and sooner or later that forces a small error that leads to a goal.


If you ignore the Fulham game which skews the goals conceded, it wasn’t actually too bad

What I found the problems was, was that we’d concede an early sloppy goal (the same type every week), and then we’d aimlessly pass around the back four, not really creating anything. Other than Fulham, I’d hardly say we were regularly thumped

I wouldn’t say it was particularly being carved open throughout the game though


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stoke City (a) sponsored by Ibrahima Sonko

by Snowflake Royal » 16 Dec 2019 20:46

URZZZZ
Snowflake Royal Yeah. And under Gomes the structure of the defence was a shambles and we were being carved open at will.

Now we're mostly solid with the occasional lapse, just like most of the rest of the division.

You've seen goals coming under Bowen, but not because teams are running through us and creating lots of chances, but because we're being pinned back because we're not going forward effectively and sooner or later that forces a small error that leads to a goal.


If you ignore the Fulham game which skews the goals conceded, it wasn’t actually too bad

What I found the problems was, was that we’d concede an early sloppy goal (the same type every week), and then we’d aimlessly pass around the back four, not really creating anything. Other than Fulham, I’d hardly say we were regularly thumped

I wouldn’t say it was particularly being carved open throughout the game though

Wednesday waltzed through us at will. Fulham were doing the same even before Swift got sent off. Charlton and Blackburn exploited the same weaknesses but weren't as good in attack.

We conceded at least 2 goals in 4 out of our first 5 home matches this season.

We weren't getting thumped but we were getting carved open. It's why Bowen reorganised defence.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stoke City (a) sponsored by Ibrahima Sonko

by Stranded » 17 Dec 2019 09:01

URZZZZ
Snowflake Royal Yeah. And under Gomes the structure of the defence was a shambles and we were being carved open at will.

Now we're mostly solid with the occasional lapse, just like most of the rest of the division.

You've seen goals coming under Bowen, but not because teams are running through us and creating lots of chances, but because we're being pinned back because we're not going forward effectively and sooner or later that forces a small error that leads to a goal.


If you ignore the Fulham game which skews the goals conceded, it wasn’t actually too bad

What I found the problems was, was that we’d concede an early sloppy goal (the same type every week), and then we’d aimlessly pass around the back four, not really creating anything. Other than Fulham, I’d hardly say we were regularly thumped

I wouldn’t say it was particularly being carved open throughout the game though


We can play that game - lets ignore the Fulham game and the Birmingham game for fairness to Bowen.

Gomes 13 in 10 (10 scored)
Bowen 7 in 9 (12 scored)

So taking away the abberation games, defence much improved - conceding less that 1 a game now which is actually promotion form esp with a +5 GD - Gomes side still had a -3 GD without Fulham - so whilst outside of that game it's "not bad", we are definitely better in both directions now than we were.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stoke City (a) sponsored by Ibrahima Sonko

by Hound » 17 Dec 2019 09:05

its strange as in some games (WBA away, Cardiff H) the defence looked rock solid under Gomes.

Its not like we conceded loads in tough away games to the likes of Swansea or Bristol either, apparently playing fairly well

And Barnsley our back line looked horrendous but managed to hold on for just the 1 conceded

None of that means a huge lot though - I'd fully agree with the gist that Bowen has tightened up the defence, and that was undoubtedly the place to start for him.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stoke City (a) sponsored by Ibrahima Sonko

by URZZZZ » 17 Dec 2019 12:29

Stranded
URZZZZ
Snowflake Royal Yeah. And under Gomes the structure of the defence was a shambles and we were being carved open at will.

Now we're mostly solid with the occasional lapse, just like most of the rest of the division.

You've seen goals coming under Bowen, but not because teams are running through us and creating lots of chances, but because we're being pinned back because we're not going forward effectively and sooner or later that forces a small error that leads to a goal.


If you ignore the Fulham game which skews the goals conceded, it wasn’t actually too bad

What I found the problems was, was that we’d concede an early sloppy goal (the same type every week), and then we’d aimlessly pass around the back four, not really creating anything. Other than Fulham, I’d hardly say we were regularly thumped

I wouldn’t say it was particularly being carved open throughout the game though


We can play that game - lets ignore the Fulham game and the Birmingham game for fairness to Bowen.

Gomes 13 in 10 (10 scored)
Bowen 7 in 9 (12 scored)

So taking away the abberation games, defence much improved - conceding less that 1 a game now which is actually promotion form esp with a +5 GD - Gomes side still had a -3 GD without Fulham - so whilst outside of that game it's "not bad", we are definitely better in both directions now than we were.


I was excluding the Fulham game because of the 10 men. They were leading 1-0 but who’s to say how the game would have panned out

I know the defence has improved under Bowen than Gomes but I’m not sure teams were actually creating that many chances against us under Gomes, it was just conceding the same type of goal in the same time period every single game, the problem was a whole collection of things


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stoke City (a) sponsored by Ibrahima Sonko

by Snowflake Royal » 17 Dec 2019 12:33

URZZZZ
Stranded
URZZZZ
If you ignore the Fulham game which skews the goals conceded, it wasn’t actually too bad

What I found the problems was, was that we’d concede an early sloppy goal (the same type every week), and then we’d aimlessly pass around the back four, not really creating anything. Other than Fulham, I’d hardly say we were regularly thumped

I wouldn’t say it was particularly being carved open throughout the game though


We can play that game - lets ignore the Fulham game and the Birmingham game for fairness to Bowen.

Gomes 13 in 10 (10 scored)
Bowen 7 in 9 (12 scored)

So taking away the abberation games, defence much improved - conceding less that 1 a game now which is actually promotion form esp with a +5 GD - Gomes side still had a -3 GD without Fulham - so whilst outside of that game it's "not bad", we are definitely better in both directions now than we were.


I was excluding the Fulham game because of the 10 men. They were leading 1-0 but who’s to say how the game would have panned out

I know the defence has improved under Bowen than Gomes but I’m not sure teams were actually creating that many chances against us under Gomes, it was just conceding the same type of goal in the same time period every single game, the problem was a whole collection of things

Me.
They were taking us apart long before the red.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stoke City (a) sponsored by Ibrahima Sonko

by URZZZZ » 17 Dec 2019 12:57

Snowflake Royal
URZZZZ
Stranded
We can play that game - lets ignore the Fulham game and the Birmingham game for fairness to Bowen.

Gomes 13 in 10 (10 scored)
Bowen 7 in 9 (12 scored)

So taking away the abberation games, defence much improved - conceding less that 1 a game now which is actually promotion form esp with a +5 GD - Gomes side still had a -3 GD without Fulham - so whilst outside of that game it's "not bad", we are definitely better in both directions now than we were.


I was excluding the Fulham game because of the 10 men. They were leading 1-0 but who’s to say how the game would have panned out

I know the defence has improved under Bowen than Gomes but I’m not sure teams were actually creating that many chances against us under Gomes, it was just conceding the same type of goal in the same time period every single game, the problem was a whole collection of things

Me.
They were taking us apart long before the red.


So were Swansea in the first 20 minutes back in September, that ended 1-1

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