Return to 3-5-2?

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WestYorksRoyal
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Return to 3-5-2?

by WestYorksRoyal » 20 Jan 2020 10:30

Let's be honest; 4-3-3 doesn't work without Joao in the central striker role. So, unless we bring in another CF who can, we should go back to 352 with Baldock and Puscas up front, as worked well when Bowen first came in before Swift's injury.

We have 4 good, fit CBs to pick from. It brings Ejaria back into the middle. Only question is whether to give Blackett LWB or not. I'd say yes on current form.

Meite becomes bench impact player, while Adam will also harshly drop to the bench. But it has to be done; take the focal point out of our 433 formation and it just doesn't work.

Yiadom is back in light training so would be a miss at first, but tbh Gunter is capable and gets unfair stick. He played the role at times under Stam.

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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by URZZZZ » 20 Jan 2020 10:49

Never see 5 at the back as a permanent fix, we don’t have a single wingback who contribute enough to goals/assists to play it (I’m aware Yiadom has three assists btw but they were hardly typical assists of a wingback)

OK as a one off game, but I’d be disappointed to see us return to it on a long term basis unless we actually have the players out wide to deliver the goods

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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by Stranded » 20 Jan 2020 11:14

We shouldn't "return" to anything but have a few formations the squad are comfortable playing in, so that we can shift either for a specific game or more likely in game as needed or to make the opposition have to think about things a bit more.

We've just lot our first game in 10, which was due to not playing well rather than the formation. I think we are more likely to see a Joao type striker coming in in the next 10 days or so rather that a total switch in playing style.

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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by WestYorksRoyal » 20 Jan 2020 11:20

It's not just one game. We played much better against Forest, but we were still missing the focal point this formation relies upon.

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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by Stranded » 20 Jan 2020 14:15

WestYorksRoyal It's not just one game. We played much better against Forest, but we were still missing the focal point this formation relies upon.


Fine - then we find another focal point rather than ripping up a successful way of playing due to 1 injury.

If we don't find a replacement then we should look to tweak things but not sure a return to a less successful formation is the way forward.


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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by Hound » 20 Jan 2020 14:31

I'd probably rather go 4-4-2 and drop Adam (ie Ejaria, Swift, Pele, McCleary). But 3-5-2 is an option. I agree I don't see either Baldock or Puscas a lone man up front

I don't think Meite has been too brilliant recently, except 1 half against Derby, so would either stick him up front with Baldock or bench him

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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by hughsies no.1 » 20 Jan 2020 16:23

Have definitely got to look at a fix - we were trying to play like Leicester do with Vardy on Saturday with balls over the top or in the channels for Baldock to run on too, no way we can expect him to hold the ball up (and unfortunately Puscas seemed to have 50p feet on Saturday so nothing was sticking on him).

Tricky for the manager as can't see him wanting to drop Pele (who was arguably our best player Sat), Adam, Swift or Ejaria - so Meite is the obvious one to drop.

Other option is to get Boye back in - even if we play same formation Wednesday night I would give him a go on the right rather than Meite. Can certainly beat a man one-on-one.

Also still think one of our most assured performances of the season came away at WBA with Puscas and Boye up top...

Team that day was:
Rafael

Miazga
Morrison
Moore

Yiadom
Ejaria
Swift
Pele
Richards

Boyé
Puscas

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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by Snowflake Royal » 20 Jan 2020 17:21

URZZZZ Never see 5 at the back as a permanent fix, we don’t have a single wingback who contribute enough to goals/assists to play it (I’m aware Yiadom has three assists btw but they were hardly typical assists of a wingback)

OK as a one off game, but I’d be disappointed to see us return to it on a long term basis unless we actually have the players out wide to deliver the goods

Does it matter how he gets them?

Between them our full backs have 2 goals and 6 assists. That doesn't seem an especially poor showing as long as we're not relying on them as our sole attacking output.

Comparisons to wide forwards get complicated because quite a few of them also play upfront or in midfield, but I doubt the different is huge. The only fullback you wouldn't expect to contribute much in the way of goals and assists at all is Gunter.

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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by URZZZZ » 20 Jan 2020 22:57

Snowflake Royal
URZZZZ Never see 5 at the back as a permanent fix, we don’t have a single wingback who contribute enough to goals/assists to play it (I’m aware Yiadom has three assists btw but they were hardly typical assists of a wingback)

OK as a one off game, but I’d be disappointed to see us return to it on a long term basis unless we actually have the players out wide to deliver the goods

Does it matter how he gets them?

Between them our full backs have 2 goals and 6 assists. That doesn't seem an especially poor showing as long as we're not relying on them as our sole attacking output.

Comparisons to wide forwards get complicated because quite a few of them also play upfront or in midfield, but I doubt the different is huge. The only fullback you wouldn't expect to contribute much in the way of goals and assists at all is Gunter.


I think my general point is that I like my wingbacks to attack down the flanks, get crosses in etc, really put the opposition on the back foot. I don’t see that in any of them, possibly Obita at an absolute push

But we know Yiadom likes to cut inside at every opportunity, Gunter is reluctant, Blackett needs a link player, Richards seems to cut in a lot. This means when the opposition set up narrow, we struggle

And thus makes us over reliant on Swift and Ejaria. Which is OK at times because they’re two good players. But they’re also prone to the occasional stinker. In which case, we have no plan B

Which is why I really like the 4–1-4-1 were currently adopting. We’ve got different options for different scenarios. If Ejaria and Swift are struggling, we have a plan B in using Meite’s height and physicality on the right, and his partnership with Gunter which I think is a pretty good one


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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by 2 world wars, 1 world cup » 21 Jan 2020 07:57

3-5-2 has worked really well for us
4-3-3 has worked really well for us
4-4-2 has worked really well for us

They've all been poor for us too

We need to stop thinking there is a magic formation that is good or ones that are bad. Everything can work and everything can fail. The opening Q is reasonable i.e. now we have lost our target man is it worth switching around and I'm sure Bowen will consider his best options, but remember this has just been the first defeat in many games, and quite a scrappy one too. The best teams lose games and a scrappy away loss against the likes of Millwall is not a disaster. We shouldn't immediately think about changing formation or changing anything necessarily. The players just need to learn from it probably.

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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by morganb » 21 Jan 2020 09:39

I guess as a manager you either

- try to tailor the set up to beat the opposition

- wheel out the same side/formation every time replacing players due to injury where necessary

- change the side/formation based on who is fit and available.

I guess there is no magic formula and it would be a mixture of the above

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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by Notts Royal » 21 Jan 2020 11:24

Play to the strengths of the players available to you. If we have no striker capable of playing the lone role, but we know Baldock & Puscas have worked well together, go 2 up top.

For tomorrow night I’d go 3-5-2 - I’d play 2 deeper midfielders...Pele & Rino. Means we would have to drop Adam and 1 of Swift/Ejaria. But it would strengthen the striking area of the team.

Also would like to see Miazga back in the team.

The truth is certain formations benefit certain players and not others

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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by WestYorksRoyal » 28 Jan 2020 22:30

Another disappointing result and performance. 2 points from 4 games since Joao's injury. I repeat my opinion. Our system relies upon a striker who can play his role; it's shit without him.


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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by Vision » 29 Jan 2020 08:04

WestYorksRoyal Another disappointing result and performance. 2 points from 4 games since Joao's injury. I repeat my opinion. Our system relies upon a striker who can play his role; it's shit without him.


I suppose we may have seen it last night but Miazga's injury and McIntyre's suspension put a stop to it.

It's worth noting though that much like the current system doesn't appear to work without Joao , the 3-5-2 stopped working once Miazga got injured at Huddersfield earlier in the season.

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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by Stranded » 29 Jan 2020 08:24

Still not sure a shift back to 3-5-2 is the right way forward but unless we do bring in a striker capable of effectively being the lone man by Friday a shift is needed.

Perhaps 4-1-3-2 is the way forward with the current available players as the defence is for the most part pretty solid. So for example:

Rafael

Gunter
Morrison
Moore
Blackett

Pele

Ejaria
Adam/Olise
Swift

Puscas
Baldock

Not a massive change from what we are doing now and puts a little more onus on the full backs but could be effective.

WestYorksRoyal
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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by WestYorksRoyal » 29 Jan 2020 09:50

Stranded Still not sure a shift back to 3-5-2 is the right way forward but unless we do bring in a striker capable of effectively being the lone man by Friday a shift is needed.

Perhaps 4-1-3-2 is the way forward with the current available players as the defence is for the most part pretty solid. So for example:

Rafael

Gunter
Morrison
Moore
Blackett

Pele

Ejaria
Adam/Olise
Swift

Puscas
Baldock

Not a massive change from what we are doing now and puts a little more onus on the full backs but could be effective.

I could see this working. Width would be a concern, but with Pele playing and Adam/Swift playing a deeper role, the FBs would probably have the licence to get forward, plus running the channels and making space is a strength of Baldock and Puscas (and Meite too if we go with him).

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Re: Return to 3-5-2?

by Hound » 29 Jan 2020 10:19

Stranded Still not sure a shift back to 3-5-2 is the right way forward but unless we do bring in a striker capable of effectively being the lone man by Friday a shift is needed.

Perhaps 4-1-3-2 is the way forward with the current available players as the defence is for the most part pretty solid. So for example:

Rafael

Gunter
Morrison
Moore
Blackett

Pele

Ejaria
Adam/Olise
Swift

Puscas
Baldock

Not a massive change from what we are doing now and puts a little more onus on the full backs but could be effective.


Yeah this pretty much - maybe Obita for Blackett but its how I think we should be looking to go

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