Puscas

[Snowball]

I'm not surprised we haven't found the right strike partnership seeing as we play ONE striker.

Fooking Nora you're hard work snowball.

How you think Puscas will be sure to get 21 goals next season when he isn't even first choice here is incredible. How many do you expect Joao to get? 35? Meite 25?

Better "Hard Work" than a Grade A Aunt


IF he's played to his best, in a top-eight team, starts to score around a goal in 180 minutes (he's on 1 in 200 in this "poorish" season), then he'd be selected more often, obviously.

I said previously in this thread Joao* up top, Puscas off him, Meite wide. Awesome



*or a big target man NOT made of paper

[NewCorkSeth]

I like Puscas. I think had he not missed those 2 sitters early on there wouldn't even be a debate about him. He's developing well, looks like he is getting used to the intensity of the league. Between him and Joao we have 2 good strikers for next season.

If Joao can ever manage a few games without being injured

And I think it’s more than just missing two sitters that creates debate about
Puscas

There are fair criticisms of Puscas. He's not a perfect player. He missed 2 goals from a couple of yards out early in the season. If he hadn't there wouldnt be calls to sell him or as many questions over whether or not he has been successful.

As things stand its a fair question to ask, I obviously think he has been a success for the most part. His first season and he has done enough in my book.

[From Despair To Where?]

The reason players who score 20+ in The Championship season after season is they often move to The Premiership, either because their club gets promoted or because they are sold.

This is last Season's top-scorers

Championship Top Scorers 2018-19

Champ Goals followed by total goals

The TOP NINE, every one of them,
ended up in The Premiership


29 (30) Pukki (Went into Premiership – Norwich)
25 (26) Abraham (Went into Premiership – Chelsea)
25 (28) Maupay (Went into Premiership – West Ham)
23 (24) Gayle (Went into Premiership - Newcastle)
23 (24) Sharp (Went into Premiership- Sheffield United)
22 (22) Adams (Went into Premiership - Southampton)
22 (22) McBurnie (Went into Premiership – Sheffield United)
22 (22) Rodriguez (Went into Premiership - Burnley)

22 (22) Bowen (Went into Premiership – West Ham)

Bowen is particularly interesting

This season Bowen had scored 16 Championship goals - 17 goals in 31 appearances before going to West Ham January. He was clearly on target for 20+ but was too good for this league and moved upwards.

Doyle, Kitson, Long, the same thing.... scored a lot of Championship goals, went to Premiership

Last season is a massive outlier. 9 is more than double the average for the last 20 seasons (77 in total since 2000/01) so not remotely representative of the overall picture.

For every player that leaves, there's one that comes down from the Premiership or gets signed from elsewhere or on loan that has the potential to score 20+ a season. Still wouldn't "expect" it from them, though.

It fine to say someone has the potential to score 20+ a season but to expect it?

[Snowflake Royal]

I'm not surprised we haven't found the right strike partnership seeing as we play ONE striker.

Fooking Nora you're hard work snowball.

How you think Puscas will be sure to get 21 goals next season when he isn't even first choice here is incredible. How many do you expect Joao to get? 35? Meite 25?

Better "Hard Work" than a Grade A Aunt


IF he's played to his best, in a top-eight team, starts to score around a goal in 180 minutes (he's on 1 in 200 in this "poorish" season), then he'd be selected more often, obviously.

I said previously in this thread Joao* up top, Puscas off him, Meite wide. Awesome



*or a big target man NOT made of paper

Lol. Joao isn't a target man. He's best played to feet and running at people.

[Sutekh]

The reason players who score 20+ in The Championship season after season is they often move to The Premiership, either because their club gets promoted or because they are sold.

This is last Season's top-scorers

Championship Top Scorers 2018-19

Champ Goals followed by total goals

The TOP NINE, every one of them,
ended up in The Premiership


29 (30) Pukki (Went into Premiership – Norwich)
25 (26) Abraham (Went into Premiership – Chelsea)
25 (28) Maupay (Went into Premiership – West Ham)
23 (24) Gayle (Went into Premiership - Newcastle)
23 (24) Sharp (Went into Premiership- Sheffield United)
22 (22) Adams (Went into Premiership - Southampton)
22 (22) McBurnie (Went into Premiership – Sheffield United)
22 (22) Rodriguez (Went into Premiership - Burnley)

22 (22) Bowen (Went into Premiership – West Ham)

Bowen is particularly interesting

This season Bowen had scored 16 Championship goals - 17 goals in 31 appearances before going to West Ham January. He was clearly on target for 20+ but was too good for this league and moved upwards.

Doyle, Kitson, Long, the same thing.... scored a lot of Championship goals, went to Premiership

Last season is a massive outlier. 9 is more than double the average for the last 20 seasons (77 in total since 2000/01) so not remotely representative of the overall picture

The long and short of it is, if you can score 20+ goals in the Championship you're likely to be playing for a team at least challenging for the playoff places, if not better, and therefore there is a good chance you'll play for a club that gets promoted. If you don't get promoted there is also a good chance that a PL club will take a punt on you esp. if you are consistent season after season.

[Snowflake Royal]

The reason players who score 20+ in The Championship season after season is they often move to The Premiership, either because their club gets promoted or because they are sold.

This is last Season's top-scorers

Championship Top Scorers 2018-19

Champ Goals followed by total goals

The TOP NINE, every one of them,
ended up in The Premiership


29 (30) Pukki (Went into Premiership – Norwich)
25 (26) Abraham (Went into Premiership – Chelsea)
25 (28) Maupay (Went into Premiership – West Ham)
23 (24) Gayle (Went into Premiership - Newcastle)
23 (24) Sharp (Went into Premiership- Sheffield United)
22 (22) Adams (Went into Premiership - Southampton)
22 (22) McBurnie (Went into Premiership – Sheffield United)
22 (22) Rodriguez (Went into Premiership - Burnley)

22 (22) Bowen (Went into Premiership – West Ham)

Bowen is particularly interesting

This season Bowen had scored 16 Championship goals - 17 goals in 31 appearances before going to West Ham January. He was clearly on target for 20+ but was too good for this league and moved upwards.

Doyle, Kitson, Long, the same thing.... scored a lot of Championship goals, went to Premiership

Last season is a massive outlier. 9 is more than double the average for the last 20 seasons (77 in total since 2000/01) so not remotely representative of the overall picture

Also, of our five seasons with one or more 20+ men in the last 25 years, we failed to get promoted in 4 put of 5 seasons. And I don't think we sold any of them the for the next season, though Morley may have retired. EDIT:: Oops Gylfi and Long though we'd obviously already covered those two.

Also interesting that a third of our 20 men (in that time) have actually been midfielders.

Seth - think you might have an overly simplistic view of the reasons people don't gush about Puscas... I think it's got relatively little to do with two misses and a lot to do with quite long barren spells and quite a few games where he was very ineffective. Unless your that idiot carboot

But that's just my opinion.

[From Despair To Where?]

The reason players who score 20+ in The Championship season after season is they often move to The Premiership, either because their club gets promoted or because they are sold.

This is last Season's top-scorers

Championship Top Scorers 2018-19

Champ Goals followed by total goals

The TOP NINE, every one of them,
ended up in The Premiership


29 (30) Pukki (Went into Premiership – Norwich)
25 (26) Abraham (Went into Premiership – Chelsea)
25 (28) Maupay (Went into Premiership – West Ham)
23 (24) Gayle (Went into Premiership - Newcastle)
23 (24) Sharp (Went into Premiership- Sheffield United)
22 (22) Adams (Went into Premiership - Southampton)
22 (22) McBurnie (Went into Premiership – Sheffield United)
22 (22) Rodriguez (Went into Premiership - Burnley)

22 (22) Bowen (Went into Premiership – West Ham)

Bowen is particularly interesting

This season Bowen had scored 16 Championship goals - 17 goals in 31 appearances before going to West Ham January. He was clearly on target for 20+ but was too good for this league and moved upwards.

Doyle, Kitson, Long, the same thing.... scored a lot of Championship goals, went to Premiership

Last season is a massive outlier. 9 is more than double the average for the last 20 seasons (77 in total since 2000/01) so not remotely representative of the overall picture

The long and short of it is, if you can score 20+ goals in the Championship you're likely to be playing for a team at least challenging for the playoff places, if not better, and therefore there is a good chance you'll play for a club that gets promoted. If you don't get promoted there is also a good chance that a PL club will take a punt on you esp. if you are consistent season after season.

I'm not denying that, that was never my argement. My arguement was that to "expect" (Snowball's words, not mine) someone to score 20+ a season is a bit unrealistic when on average over the past 20 years, only 3-4 players achieve it a season. It's more likely to provide a payday than promotion. Rather we spread the goals around the team and offer a threat from differemt positions.

[Sutekh]

The reason players who score 20+ in The Championship season after season is they often move to The Premiership, either because their club gets promoted or because they are sold.

This is last Season's top-scorers

Championship Top Scorers 2018-19

Champ Goals followed by total goals

The TOP NINE, every one of them,
ended up in The Premiership


29 (30) Pukki (Went into Premiership – Norwich)
25 (26) Abraham (Went into Premiership – Chelsea)
25 (28) Maupay (Went into Premiership – West Ham)
23 (24) Gayle (Went into Premiership - Newcastle)
23 (24) Sharp (Went into Premiership- Sheffield United)
22 (22) Adams (Went into Premiership - Southampton)
22 (22) McBurnie (Went into Premiership – Sheffield United)
22 (22) Rodriguez (Went into Premiership - Burnley)

22 (22) Bowen (Went into Premiership – West Ham)

Bowen is particularly interesting

This season Bowen had scored 16 Championship goals - 17 goals in 31 appearances before going to West Ham January. He was clearly on target for 20+ but was too good for this league and moved upwards.

Doyle, Kitson, Long, the same thing.... scored a lot of Championship goals, went to Premiership

Last season is a massive outlier. 9 is more than double the average for the last 20 seasons (77 in total since 2000/01) so not remotely representative of the overall picture

Also, of our five seasons with one or more 20+ men in the last 25 years, we failed to get promoted in 4 put of 5 seasons. And I don't think we sold any of them the for the next season, though Morley may have retired.

Seth - think you might have an overly simplistic view of the reasons people don't gush about Puscas... I think it's got relatively little to do with two misses and a lot to do with quite long barren spells and quite a few games where he was very ineffective. Unless your that idiot carboot

But that's just my opinion.

Remember in 82/83 Reading achieved relegation with Kerry Dixon banging in 26 goals oddly, under 2 points for a win, Reading would have stayed up that season.

[Snowflake Royal]

Actually, I think it's an interesting question to look at our 20 men and try to deduce what they had that got them there.

Morley - expert penalty taker and winner, bags of experience. Good on crosses at a time when they were common.

Caskey - freekick and penalty specialist

Cureton - fox in the box, clever goalscorer with a good touch

Butler - the mists of time and being away at his best mean I'm not sure...

Kitson - really skillful, good on crosses, penalties, movement - everything but pace and he wasn't exactly slow

Sigurdsson - way too good for our level, great set pieces and needed very little room to whip one in the top corner

Long - pace, strength and the ability to win and convert penalties.

TBH, Puscas has done alright and has potential, but for me he doesn't have the one outstanding attribute or all round quality to match those players and hit those heights.

A consistently fit Joao might.

[From Despair To Where?]

Caskey, Cureton, Butler - Playing in League 1.

[The Royal Forester]

Surely Puscas will leave in the summer because apparently Dellor doesn’t praise him all the time I am not sure any player could remain at Reading if Dellor doesn’t favour them.

He did well to score that penalty yesterday’s knowing in his head that Dellor doesn’t praise him.

He handled the pressure well.

I am torn on the Puscas issue. Did we really pay eight million or was that just a headline figure?

Nearing in mind first season, disjointed season, etc he has done quite well, but if he stayed next season 8 would like to see much more from him.

Off the top of my head, I can remember Tim Dellor saying during his commentary things like , that's a nice touch by ......, Osho plays the ball into ..... but it's too far ahead of him, that's another nice touch by ........ , that's a good penalty by ........ , Guess who the player is in all the ..... spaces, yes that's right, Puscas! . I take it. you didn't hear those comments, as you no doubt will only here the critical comments he makes to fit in with your own preconceived ideas. He also said, when Gomas/Pele went off, that is a pity, Rinomhota and Gomas are a good combination in mid-field. Hardly the words of someone who is on the backs of some player all the time, is it?

[Snowflake Royal]

Caskey, Cureton, Butler - Playing in League 1.

Well yeah, but ability is relative and I don't think you could say any of them proved they were clearly too good for L1. Not to the extent that say Gylfi did at PL vs Chumpionship.

I was looking for a bit more than just too good for that level. But I don't think you could say that in any way describes Puscas at this level if you do want to keep it that simple.

[SouthDownsRoyal]

Surely Puscas will leave in the summer because apparently Dellor doesn’t praise him all the time I am not sure any player could remain at Reading if Dellor doesn’t favour them.

He did well to score that penalty yesterday’s knowing in his head that Dellor doesn’t praise him.

He handled the pressure well.

I am torn on the Puscas issue. Did we really pay eight million or was that just a headline figure?

Nearing in mind first season, disjointed season, etc he has done quite well, but if he stayed next season 8 would like to see much more from him.

Off the top of my head, I can remember Tim Dellor saying during his commentary things like , that's a nice touch by ......, Osho plays the ball into ..... but it's too far ahead of him, that's another nice touch by ........ , that's a good penalty by ........ , Guess who the player is in all the ..... spaces, yes that's right, Puscas! . I take it. you didn't hear those comments, as you no doubt will only here the critical comments he makes to fit in with your own preconceived ideas. He also said, when Gomas/Pele went off, that is a pity, Rinomhota and Gomas are a good combination in mid-field. Hardly the words of someone who is on the backs of some player all the time, is it?

What on earth are you talking about

[Snowball]

The reason players who score 20+ in The Championship season after season is they often move to The Premiership, either because their club gets promoted or because they are sold.

This is last Season's top-scorers

Championship Top Scorers 2018-19

Champ Goals followed by total goals

The TOP NINE, every one of them,
ended up in The Premiership


29 (30) Pukki (Went into Premiership – Norwich)
25 (26) Abraham (Went into Premiership – Chelsea)
25 (28) Maupay (Went into Premiership – West Ham)
23 (24) Gayle (Went into Premiership - Newcastle)
23 (24) Sharp (Went into Premiership- Sheffield United)
22 (22) Adams (Went into Premiership - Southampton)
22 (22) McBurnie (Went into Premiership – Sheffield United)
22 (22) Rodriguez (Went into Premiership - Burnley)

22 (22) Bowen (Went into Premiership – West Ham)

Bowen is particularly interesting

This season Bowen had scored 16 Championship goals - 17 goals in 31 appearances before going to West Ham January. He was clearly on target for 20+ but was too good for this league and moved upwards.

Doyle, Kitson, Long, the same thing.... scored a lot of Championship goals, went to Premiership

Last season is a massive outlier. 9 is more than double the average for the last 20 seasons (77 in total since 2000/01) so not remotely representative of the overall picture

The long and short of it is, if you can score 20+ goals in the Championship you're likely to be playing for a team at least challenging for the playoff places, if not better, and therefore there is a good chance you'll play for a club that gets promoted. If you don't get promoted there is also a good chance that a PL club will take a punt on you esp. if you are consistent season after season.

Precisely... thus meaning that players that score 20+ rarely stay in the Championship!

Wouldn't that explain why players rarely get 20+ 20+ 20+ in successive seasons?

No idea but I seriously doubt if 20-goal Championship strikers stay at this level and keep doing it.

[The Royal Forester]

Surely Puscas will leave in the summer because apparently Dellor doesn’t praise him all the time I am not sure any player could remain at Reading if Dellor doesn’t favour them.

He did well to score that penalty yesterday’s knowing in his head that Dellor doesn’t praise him.

He handled the pressure well.

I am torn on the Puscas issue. Did we really pay eight million or was that just a headline figure?

Nearing in mind first season, disjointed season, etc he has done quite well, but if he stayed next season 8 would like to see much more from him.

Off the top of my head, I can remember Tim Dellor saying during his commentary things like , that's a nice touch by ......, Osho plays the ball into ..... but it's too far ahead of him, that's another nice touch by ........ , that's a good penalty by ........ , Guess who the player is in all the ..... spaces, yes that's right, Puscas! . I take it. you didn't hear those comments, as you no doubt will only here the critical comments he makes to fit in with your own preconceived ideas. He also said, when Gomas/Pele went off, that is a pity, Rinomhota and Gomas are a good combination in mid-field. Hardly the words of someone who is on the backs of some player all the time, is it?

What on earth are you talking about

Quite simple, really. I am pointing out that Tim Dellor, did praise Puscas and Pele on several occasions yesterday. Did you hear them or were your ears closed to those remarks?

[Snowball]

Surely Puscas will leave in the summer because apparently Dellor doesn’t praise him all the time I am not sure any player could remain at Reading if Dellor doesn’t favour them.

He did well to score that penalty yesterday’s knowing in his head that Dellor doesn’t praise him.

He handled the pressure well.

I am torn on the Puscas issue. Did we really pay eight million or was that just a headline figure?

Nearing in mind first season, disjointed season, etc he has done quite well, but if he stayed next season 8 would like to see much more from him.

Off the top of my head, I can remember Tim Dellor saying during his commentary things like , that's a nice touch by ......, Osho plays the ball into ..... but it's too far ahead of him, that's another nice touch by ........ , that's a good penalty by ........ , Guess who the player is in all the ..... spaces, yes that's right, Puscas! . I take it. you didn't hear those comments, as you no doubt will only here the critical comments he makes to fit in with your own preconceived ideas. He also said, when Gomas/Pele went off, that is a pity, Rinomhota and Gomas are a good combination in mid-field. Hardly the words of someone who is on the backs of some player all the time, is it?

FOR THIS GAME, yes, Dellor was praising Puscas WAY more than usual.

It was extremely noticeable because it was so different to the usual. So much so I was going to say something about it in the Matchwatch thread.

Quite clear he had read here, twitter, FB etc and noted he was getting stick

[Snowball]

The reason players who score 20+ in The Championship season after season is they often move to The Premiership, either because their club gets promoted or because they are sold.

This is last Season's top-scorers

Championship Top Scorers 2018-19

Champ Goals followed by total goals

The TOP NINE, every one of them,
ended up in The Premiership


29 (30) Pukki (Went into Premiership – Norwich)
25 (26) Abraham (Went into Premiership – Chelsea)
25 (28) Maupay (Went into Premiership – West Ham)
23 (24) Gayle (Went into Premiership - Newcastle)
23 (24) Sharp (Went into Premiership- Sheffield United)
22 (22) Adams (Went into Premiership - Southampton)
22 (22) McBurnie (Went into Premiership – Sheffield United)
22 (22) Rodriguez (Went into Premiership - Burnley)

22 (22) Bowen (Went into Premiership – West Ham)

Bowen is particularly interesting

This season Bowen had scored 16 Championship goals - 17 goals in 31 appearances before going to West Ham January. He was clearly on target for 20+ but was too good for this league and moved upwards.

Doyle, Kitson, Long, the same thing.... scored a lot of Championship goals, went to Premiership

Last season is a massive outlier. 9 is more than double the average for the last 20 seasons (77 in total since 2000/01) so not remotely representative of the overall picture

The long and short of it is, if you can score 20+ goals in the Championship you're likely to be playing for a team at least challenging for the playoff places, if not better, and therefore there is a good chance you'll play for a club that gets promoted. If you don't get promoted there is also a good chance that a PL club will take a punt on you esp. if you are consistent season after season.

And if your club DOESN'T get promoted, the top-scorers become transfer targets

Example Long, who started 2010-11 playing for Reading (and scored)

[Snowball]

BTW, I was going to trawl through the records, and started with last season

When I saw that ALL NINE of the top nine were promoted with their club (or snapped up)
I thought, sheesh, why bother

Then add in Long, Doyle, Kitson, Gylfi.

Question for stattos.

How many players have scored 20+ goals at Championship Level, for 2-3 seasons and NOT moved on?

[From Despair To Where?]

Caskey, Cureton, Butler - Playing in League 1.

Well yeah, but ability is relative and I don't think you could say any of them proved they were clearly too good for L1. Not to the extent that say Gylfi did at PL vs Chumpionship.

I was looking for a bit more than just too good for that level. But I don't think you could say that in any way describes Puscas at this level if you do want to keep it that simple.

I think there's an argument that Cureton was because he was a consistant goalscorer at a higher level for us Colchester.

[From Despair To Where?]

BTW, I was going to trawl through the records, and started with last season

When I saw that ALL NINE of the top nine were promoted with their club (or snapped up)
I thought, sheesh, why bother

Then add in Long, Doyle, Kitson, Gylfi.

Question for stattos.

How many players have scored 20+ goals at Championship Level, for 2-3 seasons and NOT moved on?

Not moved on to a higher level?

Off the top of head.

Chris Woods
Jordan Rhodes
Sylvan Ebanks Blake
Glenn Murray

Dwight Gayle has been constantly loaned back to the Championship without ever really having an impact in the Premiership, likewise Matej Vydra.