CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

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fred sharpes nose
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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by fred sharpes nose » 30 Aug 2020 00:08

Elm Park Kid My feeling is that fans are moving from anger towards apathy. I've seen a few posts on here trying to defend the decision, but at the end of the day it's just another wild stab in the dark, hoping it works out. What's the old saying - fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Anyone who believes that this is in anyway a positive move deserves to be upset when it all comes crashing down.

As fans, I guess we just take the long view and hope that this ends with administration and new stable ownership as a League 1/2 club, rather than liquidation.


No internet for a few days and come back to all this going on. WTF

SO SO unbelievably angry. This is a repeat of the season where Gomes was going to bring in the youth, then at the last minute millions spent (mostly ended up down the drain). 8 new signings ? If true then what is the impact on the young guys. Shambles

Bowen is an average manager and would have made steady if unspectacular progress. Nigel Howe started so well then ll went quiet. Seemed to know what they wanted to do. I can live with that - sensible strategies I can buy into

I think Dias just want yes men

We appear to be the shambolic basket case club that all other fans laugh at.

I am sick to death of "the owners" "the super agent" etc playing around with MY CLUB - they need to go

SEASON LONG FAN BOYCOTT - no one in the ground for any game. That will hit Dais hardest where it matters most - "Face". Global humiliation. Best way to get rid of them. Yes we face dire consequences - but I'd sooner be a fan of my real club (at whatever level), than a largely irrelevant customer watching some billionaires plaything.

A lot is wrong with football and sadly Reading FC seem to have most of the symptoms

btw - lifelong fan 50 years

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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by Snowflake Royal » 30 Aug 2020 00:10

CountryRoyal Not sure if I’ve missed it - how are we pronouncing his name?

Sakt-bahy Dih-sem-ber

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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by tmesis » 30 Aug 2020 00:26

Elm Park Kid My feeling is that fans are moving from anger towards apathy. I've seen a few posts on here trying to defend the decision, but at the end of the day it's just another wild stab in the dark, hoping it works out. What's the old saying - fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Anyone who believes that this is in anyway a positive move deserves to be upset when it all comes crashing down.

He did a very good job with the Serbian youth team. Impossible to tell in Chicago, due to how the draft etc impacts recruitment. I have no idea how good he'll be. It depends on how well our players can adapt to his ideas. Recent experience suggests they'll respond well for half a season, then revert to old habits.

As fans, I guess we just take the long view and hope that this ends with administration and new stable ownership as a League 1/2 club, rather than liquidation.

The worrying thing there is that if we are gone, then we are really gone. We don't own the ground or the training ground now, and we'd really have to start from scratch, homeless. It would be a very long road back.

If we are hoping though, the only hope there is for some miraculous recruitment building a promotion winning team. No, I don't expect that either.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by Millsy » 30 Aug 2020 01:56

Snowflake Royal
CountryRoyal Not sure if I’ve missed it - how are we pronouncing his name?

Sakt-bahy Dih-sem-ber


I thought it was a silent D. Shows how much I know.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by Millsy » 30 Aug 2020 02:10

Elm Park Kid My feeling is that fans are moving from anger towards apathy. .


Spot on, in my case anyway.

What concerns me isn’t necessarily that like most I think this is probably a poor signing, because who knows he may end up good.

What concerns me is as you suggest I couldn’t give a flying f~~k anymore. New manager used to be the most exciting time as a Reading fan as it would usually mean the club making a decent decision to sack a poorly performing manager and it would suggest a real shakeup on the way. We knew we’d be looking for a top guy with a decent record and would be looking forward to him changing things around for the better.

Instead we have a situation where our recent manager changes have been bizarre, uninspiring and unexpected. Where our current manager has only been in the job 5 minutes and has done everything asked of him and we were crying out for stability and looking forward to what he might achieve yet we decide to get rid of him. And now yet again no excitement, no links to names with experience in this league but some other unheard of guy.

I’m almost at the point now where I think I don’t care. If this guy is good and gets us to playoffs let’s say, who’s to say he won’t be sacked with another bizarre change. I am sort of beyond caring. Everything is too random.


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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by Pepe the Horseman » 30 Aug 2020 10:06

royalp-we
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Lower West Perhaps Bowen is going to walk. Given the treatment he has received. Hence the lack of communication from the club.

No U23's manager either.

No public sign of new CEO yet.

Squad in Portugal at a training camp with a cup fixture next Saturday. Complete farce.


The Portugal trip about sums up this club. Who thought it was a good idea to fly off to Europe 1 week before the first competitive game, if the government suddenly decide Portugal is dodgy then the entire first team faces 2 weeks isolation. If that happens do Reading get to postpone the Colchester and Derby games?


Plenty of other Championship clubs are also currently abroad. Bournemouth are also in Portugal and there’ll be contingency plans for a route home with 24hrs notice.

They’ll get the Portimonense friendly out the way and will start jetting players back afterwards.

The quarantine list doesn't get published until Thursday anyway, so worst case they'd have until Saturday morning to get back into the country, which presumably they were going to do anyway, as we have a game.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by Sutekh » 30 Aug 2020 10:32

CountryRoyal Not sure if I’ve missed it - how are we pronouncing his name?


Вељко Пауновић

How long though before it gets shortened to “porno”?

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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by SCIAG » 30 Aug 2020 10:57

Elm Park Kid My feeling is that fans are moving from anger towards apathy. I've seen a few posts on here trying to defend the decision, but at the end of the day it's just another wild stab in the dark, hoping it works out. What's the old saying - fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Anyone who believes that this is in anyway a positive move deserves to be upset when it all comes crashing down.

As fans, I guess we just take the long view and hope that this ends with administration and new stable ownership as a League 1/2 club, rather than liquidation.

The issue with the first paragraph is that there’s no way to not be a fool. I was irate when we sacked McDermott for Stam, but it turned out to be the right footballing decision (though perhaps not ethically). Then we lost Kermorgant and Al-Habsi and the wheels came off.

I thought Gomes was a complete random joke but within weeks he was being hailed by the fan base as the man who saved us from relegation, the stadium was full of Portugal flags, and things were looking really good on the pitch. Then we lost all that momentum over the summer.

Seems to me that given the choice between praying for the apocalypse and a smidgen of humility, you’re less likely to look a fool if you keep an open mind and admit you don’t really know what the future holds. It’s obviously foolish to claim that administration and relegation is the best-case scenario.

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Re: (Soon to be) CONFIMRED - some kind of Serbian bloke

by Royal Rother » 30 Aug 2020 11:11

Snowflake Royal
That doesn't mean he's guaranteed to fail. And if the new guy somehow succeeds, and we get lucky on the gamble, that doesn't mean it was a good decision.



Yes it does.

I share all the frustration and scepticism expressed by so many, and yes, the number of fcuks I give reduces every year but if we somehow do manage to get promoted with this guy in charge it will have been a brilliant decision.

And a miracle.


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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunov

by Millsy » 30 Aug 2020 11:19

royalp-we I remember another relatively unknown Serb, Slavisa Jokanovic rocking up to Watford in October 2014. Their fans were beside themselves, his Hercules Side relegated the previous season; and sacked by Levski Sofia before that. But Watford were promoted come May 2015. Apparently he and Paunovic are of the same coaching ethos.

I’m gutted for Bowen. But these two ‘could’ work really well together. Especially as we want younger players, which is where Paunovic has proven coaching success.

You’ve got to take the positives; and let the results do the talking. Far too soon to suggest we’ll be languishing near the bottom of the table, in what is a relatively weak championship this season.


Absolutely top post. As someone who after a bit of a moan at bad looking managers tries to find a positive and get behind them once they’re in I was struggling big time but you have given a possible explanation beautifully. Make this post a sticky, mods, before half of Reading fans have a heart attack.

The point is we don’t know what’s going on. Dunning-Kruger in full flow. Who’s to say what the deal was with Bowen? Could quite easily be that it was always a temporary thing, with him getting some management experience to be a more effective DOF as part of his long term development. How are we to know the true thinking behind Paunovic?

Bowen - let’s face it (and I wasn’t one of the Bowen out crowd) , wasnt amazing. I mean, he did some good but there was nothing exciting about the play, total lack of service to the strikers, we ended the season looking more clueless than under Gomes trying out different styles and formations in desperation.

Other managers - who’s to say other proven managers would want to come here? With our record of changing manager every 5 mins, our dire financial state, our awful momentum, the unpredictable owners. And what would they cost us anyway?

Dai - people are calling him arrogant for having ambition. But what’s wrong with that? We might not think Paunovic is truly a sign of ambition as he’s a nobody to us but we can’t say he’s not ambitious for trying to shake things up, clearly not happy with the crap we were playing under Bowen. And as above, maybe we will be another Watford.

I’m sitting on the fence here and will trust there are good reasons. He might surprise us like McGhee, Pardew and McDermott did.

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Re: (Soon to be) CONFIMRED - some kind of Serbian bloke

by Millsy » 30 Aug 2020 11:21

Royal Rother
Snowflake Royal
That doesn't mean he's guaranteed to fail. And if the new guy somehow succeeds, and we get lucky on the gamble, that doesn't mean it was a good decision.



Yes it does.

I share all the frustration and scepticism expressed by so many, and yes, the number of fcuks I give reduces every year but if we somehow do manage to get promoted with this guy in charge it will have been a brilliant decision.

And a miracle.


The decision to bring someone in who turns out to be a massive success doesn’t mean it was a good decision!? Come on Ian.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by Snowflake Royal » 30 Aug 2020 11:23

You guys should read the rest of the post.

Getting lucky =/= making good decisions.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by Millsy » 30 Aug 2020 11:42

CountryRoyal Not sure if I’ve missed it - how are we pronouncing his name?


Not that it matters as the mongtardious press will invent all sorts of pronunciations, but from my time voluntary working in the Balkans I can tell you Serbians would pronounce Paunovic as...

pa- OON - o- vich

pa as in “pat”
oon - with the OO as in “Pool” but ending in an N obviously. But the OO would be shorter, not dragged out like how we would say pool which is more of a pooool, but more like how a Scot would say “toon”.
O - like the o in “or”. A short o, not a long one like “oh”
And vich , like “witch” but starting with a V ,

And the emphasis in the name would be the OO. It’s another syllable in its own right.

Any actual Serbians here I’m sure can confirm. Or educate me.

So having said that... you can guarantee we’ll be saying “PORN-o-vik” because we’re retarded Brits.

Just a note though - it actually doesn’t matter how Serbians would pronounce it, or how he’d pronounce it to his family, what matters is the pronunciation he prefers as immigrants will often change the official pronunciation of names to be more palatable to the country they’re moving to and actually dislike using the proper one. Lastly, as he’s lived in America chances are he’ll just take that pronunciation with him wherever he goes, and as yanks are even more retarded than us when it comes with pronunciations honestly anything might be the case here.

So Dellor’s approach is the best I.e. he will ask him in his first interview how HE likes it to be pronounced, and that’s all that matters.


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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by Millsy » 30 Aug 2020 11:47

Snowflake Royal You guys should read the rest of the post.

Getting lucky =/= making good decisions.


That’s crap sorry. It might suit your narrative if you end up being wrong that it was just luck and it was still objectively a poor decision at the time, but this isn’t a total random punt like someone spending £1000 on a lottery ticket, it’s a decision based on factors we have no idea about.

If he ends up good it’ll have undoubtedly been a good decision, no question about it.

Stick with your hunch and accept the consequences with grace. It’s ok to be wrong.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by Snowflake Royal » 30 Aug 2020 11:54

Millsy
Snowflake Royal You guys should read the rest of the post.

Getting lucky =/= making good decisions.


I did, and that’s crap sorry. It might suit your narrative if you end up being wrong that it was just luck and it was still objectively a poor decision at the time, but this isn’t a total random punt like someone spending £1000 on a lottery ticket, it’s a decision based on factors we have no idea about.

If he ends up good it’ll have undoubtedly been a good decision, no question about it.

Stick with your hunch and accept the consequences with grace. It’s ok to be wrong.


Firstly, no good reason to remove Bowen.

Secondly, history of poor decisions along the same lines

Thirdly, similarly unimpressive record and lack of experience to previous failed appointments

Fourthly, timing is objectively bad

Fifthly, poor decisions being made about spending and signings which compound on the same previous mistakes.

A good decision is one that's based on sound reasoning, and can be expected to have a fair chance of success, with similar decisions likely to replicate that success.

This is more oxf*rd and isn't a good decision, if we happen to have lucked out on someone competent accidentally, who can make a good job with poor and poorly managed resources, that doesn't make it a good decision.

Look at sacking McDermott and replacing him with Stam, short lived success based on poor decision making that quickly fell apart. Preceded and followed by more poor decision making and failure.

At best, we'll get that.

Have you heard the phrase, the ends don't justify the means?

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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by Millsy » 30 Aug 2020 12:15

Snowflake Royal
Millsy
Snowflake Royal You guys should read the rest of the post.

Getting lucky =/= making good decisions.


I did, and that’s crap sorry. It might suit your narrative if you end up being wrong that it was just luck and it was still objectively a poor decision at the time, but this isn’t a total random punt like someone spending £1000 on a lottery ticket, it’s a decision based on factors we have no idea about.

If he ends up good it’ll have undoubtedly been a good decision, no question about it.

Stick with your hunch and accept the consequences with grace. It’s ok to be wrong.


Firstly, no good reason to remove Bowen.

Secondly, history of poor decisions along the same lines

Thirdly, similarly unimpressive record and lack of experience to previous failed appointments

Fourthly, timing is objectively bad

Fifthly, poor decisions being made about spending and signings which compound on the same previous mistakes.

A good decision is one that's based on sound reasoning, and can be expected to have a fair chance of success, with similar decisions likely to replicate that success.

This is more oxf*rd and isn't a good decision, if we happen to have lucked out on someone competent accidentally, who can make a good job with poor and poorly managed resources, that doesn't make it a good decision.

Look at sacking McDermott and replacing him with Stam, short lived success based on poor decision making that quickly fell apart. Preceded and followed by more poor decision making and failure.

At best, we'll get that.

Have you heard the phrase, the ends don't justify the means?


I agree I’m not happy with any of this myself.

But there you go again saying if this works is “because we happen to have lucked out.. accidentally”.

I was utterly wrong with my assessment of McDermott, I couldn’t have been more vocal about my disappointment when he was appointed but when he took us up I put my hands up, admitted I was wrong, and didn’t defend my initial assessment claiming it was just a lucky appointment that accidentally worked. There’s nothing accidental about professionals spending weeks making an assessment, offering contracts, spending hundreds of thousands, bringing in coaching staff, sacking people etc etc.

This isn’t a lottery purchase it’s a complex high end (multiple) job appointment with many many factors considered by many professional people - factors that are way above our heads as random people on a forum.

You’re trying to preempt being wrong now by saying if it works it’s just an accident. Just accept it, stick your neck out and say you think it’s a bad decision and if he ends up coming good accept it honourably. No one will think less of you for it.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by Stranded » 30 Aug 2020 12:35

Fan boycotts etc are just a bit crazy esp. when no idea when fans can return. If we start badly fans will whinge, if we are top 6 by end of October majority will be happy enough with life. As the old saying goes, you are only as good as your last result and if they are good, very few will complain about the last week in August.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by Snowflake Royal » 30 Aug 2020 13:52

Millsy
Snowflake Royal
Millsy
I did, and that’s crap sorry. It might suit your narrative if you end up being wrong that it was just luck and it was still objectively a poor decision at the time, but this isn’t a total random punt like someone spending £1000 on a lottery ticket, it’s a decision based on factors we have no idea about.

If he ends up good it’ll have undoubtedly been a good decision, no question about it.

Stick with your hunch and accept the consequences with grace. It’s ok to be wrong.


Firstly, no good reason to remove Bowen.

Secondly, history of poor decisions along the same lines

Thirdly, similarly unimpressive record and lack of experience to previous failed appointments

Fourthly, timing is objectively bad

Fifthly, poor decisions being made about spending and signings which compound on the same previous mistakes.

A good decision is one that's based on sound reasoning, and can be expected to have a fair chance of success, with similar decisions likely to replicate that success.

This is more oxf*rd and isn't a good decision, if we happen to have lucked out on someone competent accidentally, who can make a good job with poor and poorly managed resources, that doesn't make it a good decision.

Look at sacking McDermott and replacing him with Stam, short lived success based on poor decision making that quickly fell apart. Preceded and followed by more poor decision making and failure.

At best, we'll get that.

Have you heard the phrase, the ends don't justify the means?


I agree I’m not happy with any of this myself.

But there you go again saying if this works is “because we happen to have lucked out.. accidentally”.

I was utterly wrong with my assessment of McDermott, I couldn’t have been more vocal about my disappointment when he was appointed but when he took us up I put my hands up, admitted I was wrong, and didn’t defend my initial assessment claiming it was just a lucky appointment that accidentally worked. There’s nothing accidental about professionals spending weeks making an assessment, offering contracts, spending hundreds of thousands, bringing in coaching staff, sacking people etc etc.

This isn’t a lottery purchase it’s a complex high end (multiple) job appointment with many many factors considered by many professional people - factors that are way above our heads as random people on a forum.

You’re trying to preempt being wrong now by saying if it works it’s just an accident. Just accept it, stick your neck out and say you think it’s a bad decision and if he ends up coming good accept it honourably. No one will think less of you for it.

The decision to remove Bowen and appoint him 2 weeks before season starts is an abomination and will remain so regardless of how he performs.

Regardless of how he performs we won't achieve longer term success without changing how we operate.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by SouthDownsRoyal » 30 Aug 2020 14:14

Stranded if we are top 6 by end of October majority will be happy enough with life.


True dat

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Re: CONFIMRED - Veljko Paunović

by Snowball » 30 Aug 2020 14:28

Stranded Fan boycotts etc are just a bit crazy esp. when no idea when fans can return. If we start badly fans will whinge, if we are top 6 by end of October majority will be happy enough with life. As the old saying goes, you are only as good as your last result and if they are good, very few will complain about the last week in August.


I'm boycotting the Colchester game.

Will take the batteries out of my radio

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