Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

190 posts

How much whelm?

Fold the club
17
13%
Underwhelmed
56
42%
Whelmed
28
21%
Overwhelmed
7
5%
Announce promotion
13
10%
Ian Royal
11
8%
 
Total votes: 132
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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by Nameless » 01 Sep 2020 10:27

tmesis
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tmesis What's baffling is that we don't even seem to accept applications for the job any more. Our manager recruitment makes as little sense as our player recruitment.


Have to disagree. Makes much more sense to headhunt your manager. It’s a small pool, inviting applicati9ns means you get all the useless lower division failures filling your intray. Much better to decide what sort of manager you want then go out and find him rather than limiting yourself to those who might apply.
Helps if you get the right guy but asking for cvs won’t make your decision making any better.

It will give you more options. You might get applicants you'd not considered. It doesn't stop you headhunting if none of the applicants appeal to you.

And let's face it, the odds of the owners knowing about this guy are very slim. I'd suspect he's another agent suggestion, who just happens to be on that agent's books.


Not convinced that a surprise unknown candidate would emerge from the woodwork because you put an advert out. These days you need certain qualifications to be a manager, the talent pool is very limited. I’m not sure advertising for a manager make sure any more sense than advertising for a goalkeeper !
The big problem with going down the advertising route is it takes longer and by definition you have to sack your existing manager first leaving you with a tricky interim.
Of course it makes sense to use all a available avenues but I remain unconvinced that recruitment by application isn’t the best way for football clubs.
I honestly can’t remember how we’ve done it over the years but Coppell didn’t ‘apply’ for the job...

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by Millsy » 01 Sep 2020 11:07

Totally underwhelmed.

But to be fair I'm not crying over Bowen's departure, so for me it's just a punt, see what happens.

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by Esteban » 01 Sep 2020 11:14

SouthDownsRoyal I was born in Reading, lived there for many years and support the club, always will.

Past, what, five (ish) years have been, well a number of words could be used. A joke, tedious, turgid, embarrassing, waste of time/money etc and it’s a crying shame having that following the success, the football, the ethos etc we had for the first twelve to fifteen years of this millennium.

I’m numb to it all now after the underachieving manager merry go round, the turgid football, the lack of focus/plan, the lack of identity etc

As someone else said years ago the new manager thing was quite exciting.p, who would we get, what would their plan be, what players will come in and also all of the circus aside, however a club is run its true that if you’re winning games you can, to a degree out the club politics to one side, but we haven’t even had that.

I’m happy to, as bizarre as this all is and how bad the timing is happy to put aside the past five ish years, they have gone, thank god, new manager, ditched some deadwood, may get a few newbies in, a relatively weak league let’s look forward and back the manager and the club. Whatever our views of the owners, it’s out of our hands so let’s look forward get behind the team and see what happens.

I know most think this is going to be a car crash in slow motion and to be honest I see why but who knows eh?

And as much as I understand some wanting is to go down, get hit many FFP penalty, etc out of spite. I for one don’t want that. If you go down, and maybe in future with a points deduction, it’s a looooong way back with no guarantee of a positive future thereafter. Let’s at least stay up and hope for more.


Agree with all of this.

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by Sanguine » 01 Sep 2020 11:40

Not really feeling any kind of whelm-ness. I think fans need to remember though RFC's 'status' in the league, in part reinforced by our last few seasons. We are a lower mid-table Championship side with few playing assets, albeit thankfully with a very good (in my view) academy. We are very much a vanilla, middling football league club. I know nothing of Paunovic, like most of us. But maybe we should feel happy to attract a manager with MLS experience and who has managed Serbian youth teams. Sure, it's only 'the MLS', but why would a relatively small club, and one in a relatively poor financial position, attract a manager with greater experience or achievements than that?

The treatment of Bowen has been awful, I don't doubt that. But after our turgid end to last season, most here would have been happy to see the back of him - I'm not really buying the support for him now.

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by leon » 01 Sep 2020 13:01

Sanguine Not really feeling any kind of whelm-ness. I think fans need to remember though RFC's 'status' in the league, in part reinforced by our last few seasons. We are a lower mid-table Championship side with few playing assets, albeit thankfully with a very good (in my view) academy. We are very much a vanilla, middling football league club. I know nothing of Paunovic, like most of us. But maybe we should feel happy to attract a manager with MLS experience and who has managed Serbian youth teams. Sure, it's only 'the MLS', but why would a relatively small club, and one in a relatively poor financial position, attract a manager with greater experience or achievements than that?

The treatment of Bowen has been awful, I don't doubt that. But after our turgid end to last season, most here would have been happy to see the back of him - I'm not really buying the support for him now.


I think a lot of people are of the opinion that constantly changing the manager is not the strategic way to create a successful team that has a clear way of playing and recruiting plus also does not make sense financially.

Whilst Bowen didn't transform the team over night he was at least building something and seemed to have an understanding of what he wanted - putting that into place takes time. McGhee, Pardew and Coppell all took time to build successful teams.


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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by 3points » 01 Sep 2020 13:14

My son is a friend of an academy player now in and around the first team squad. According to the player, he said the squad didn't know anything about this other than what was in the media / social media. They didn't know the name of the new manager until it was announced on Saturday morning. They'd read the same as we had done in the preceding days. He also said he and many of the players were disappointed that Bowen hasn't been given the opportunity to build on last season.

Sounds like Serbo guy is going to have his work cut out from the beginning with the squad as well as the fans.

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by Sanguine » 01 Sep 2020 13:17

leon
Sanguine Not really feeling any kind of whelm-ness. I think fans need to remember though RFC's 'status' in the league, in part reinforced by our last few seasons. We are a lower mid-table Championship side with few playing assets, albeit thankfully with a very good (in my view) academy. We are very much a vanilla, middling football league club. I know nothing of Paunovic, like most of us. But maybe we should feel happy to attract a manager with MLS experience and who has managed Serbian youth teams. Sure, it's only 'the MLS', but why would a relatively small club, and one in a relatively poor financial position, attract a manager with greater experience or achievements than that?

The treatment of Bowen has been awful, I don't doubt that. But after our turgid end to last season, most here would have been happy to see the back of him - I'm not really buying the support for him now.


I think a lot of people are of the opinion that constantly changing the manager is not the strategic way to create a successful team that has a clear way of playing and recruiting plus also does not make sense financially.

Whilst Bowen didn't transform the team over night he was at least building something and seemed to have an understanding of what he wanted - putting that into place takes time. McGhee, Pardew and Coppell all took time to build successful teams.


Yeah, fair enough, I don't disagree. I mentioned Stam's awful results in his second season, one win in 20 or so before he was sacked. Had that been four or five wins, and we were a little safer from relegation, I'd have supported him staying. Would much sooner we became a club with an identity, who have good seasons, and shit ones, but stick with that underlying 'Reading way'.

I liked Bowen. But then I liked Gomes and think we might have built something under Jose had he had the room to do so.

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by andrew1957 » 01 Sep 2020 13:32

I think the problem for many of us is that when Howe was reappointed as CEO and Bowen as manager there was a glimmer of hope that we would return to a more solid "slowly slowly" approach to rebuilding the squad, bringing Academy players through and gradually moving up the league table like we have in the past - the much derided "Reading way".

The moves of the last few days suggest that the owners are not willing to be patient and just want to gamble on PL next season. I cannot see why they would sack Bowen unless they now intend to go on another spending splurge and bringing in a lot more new players before the transfer window closes.

That will mean less chance for Academy lads and taking time for new players to integrate into the squad. This integration process from the past experience of watching this division for years seldom works in one season. Normally several seasons are needed to build a promotion chasing squad. I am sure there have been a few exceptions but history suggest that bringing in a new manager with no experience of the division a couple of weeks before the season starts and new players who will have no time to integrate in the squad, is unlikely to be successful.

I hope I am wrong. I would live to be looking forward to a PL season in 2021/22 but I just don't see that happening and fear that the owners gamble could spectacularly backfire.

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by SouthDownsRoyal » 01 Sep 2020 13:37

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The squad isn't good enough. Nor is he going to have much say in the players he is given.

That's part of the frustration. Last seasons improvement has effectively been binned.


Last seasons ‘improvement’ we hardly set the world alight last season


Championship is an unforgiving competitive league.

At the very least we need an experienced manager. Not just a second or third choice.


Don’t disagree with that but my point was that we can’t wrap last season up as any kind of success, sure we finished lower mid table and weren’t relegated but there were few positive signs in our play, tactics , home form etc


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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by Nameless » 01 Sep 2020 13:50

andrew1957 I think the problem for many of us is that when Howe was reappointed as CEO and Bowen as manager there was a glimmer of hope that we would return to a more solid "slowly slowly" approach to rebuilding the squad, bringing Academy players through and gradually moving up the league table like we have in the past - the much derided "Reading way".

The moves of the last few days suggest that the owners are not willing to be patient and just want to gamble on PL next season. I cannot see why they would sack Bowen unless they now intend to go on another spending splurge and bringing in a lot more new players before the transfer window closes.

That will mean less chance for Academy lads and taking time for new players to integrate into the squad. This integration process from the past experience of watching this division for years seldom works in one season. Normally several seasons are needed to build a promotion chasing squad. I am sure there have been a few exceptions but history suggest that bringing in a new manager with no experience of the division a couple of weeks before the season starts and new players who will have no time to integrate in the squad, is unlikely to be successful.

I hope I am wrong. I would live to be looking forward to a PL season in 2021/22 but I just don't see that happening and fear that the owners gamble could spectacularly backfire.


Doesn’t that apply to most of the recent seasons ?
Not sure concerns about Academy players are that valid. The best of our youngsters are already part of the first team. I don’t think we have another Olise / Rino / McIntyre about to break through. If anything it might help the likes of Nevers and Holsgrove by not pushing them through too soon.
The concern about bringing 8n new players is alsonot really relevant given Bowen had already spoken of his plans to bring in 5 or 6 more (which I assume excluded Laurent and Ejaria)
I do agree that it’s unrealistic to expect immediate results, but it’s not beyond poss8ble. Sometimes minor tweaks to formation or attitude or one key player can make big difference. I actually think we have a pretty decent set of players if they stay fit. The squad balance is not quite right and I don’t think the coaching, selection or game management have been great but I have no idea whether a new manager will do these th8ngs better or whether Bowen would have learned fromgett8ng it wrong last season.

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by Sutekh » 01 Sep 2020 13:55

SCIAG
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Mid Sussex Royal Have to be positive - one of these random changes we will get lucky on the law of averages like Leeds did with Bielsa


Pretty terrible example, Bielsa was the second most respected and accomplished manager to ever be in this league. :lol:

Fixed.


(In all seriousness you're completely right)


Nuno Santos would surely be above Bielsa in that league

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by 3points » 01 Sep 2020 14:13

andrew1957 I think the problem for many of us is that when Howe was reappointed as CEO and Bowen as manager there was a glimmer of hope that we would return to a more solid "slowly slowly" approach to rebuilding the squad, bringing Academy players through and gradually moving up the league table like we have in the past - the much derided "Reading way".

The moves of the last few days suggest that the owners are not willing to be patient and just want to gamble on PL next season. I cannot see why they would sack Bowen unless they now intend to go on another spending splurge and bringing in a lot more new players before the transfer window closes.

That will mean less chance for Academy lads and taking time for new players to integrate into the squad. This integration process from the past experience of watching this division for years seldom works in one season. Normally several seasons are needed to build a promotion chasing squad. I am sure there have been a few exceptions but history suggest that bringing in a new manager with no experience of the division a couple of weeks before the season starts and new players who will have no time to integrate in the squad, is unlikely to be successful.

I hope I am wrong. I would live to be looking forward to a PL season in 2021/22 but I just don't see that happening and fear that the owners gamble could spectacularly backfire.

to be fair it took Bielsa a couple of seasons (and Bilic too). A lot of the players remained the same, but he coached them better from what I could see. But they did also bring in some quality players as well. If Bielsa (or Bilic) had gone last summer then I'd suggest neither would have been promoted this season.

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by SCIAG » 01 Sep 2020 14:19

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Pretty terrible example, Bielsa was the second most respected and accomplished manager to ever be in this league. :lol:

Fixed.

(In all seriousness you're completely right)


Nuno Santos would surely be above Bielsa in that league

No way. Santo had a good spell at Valencia but Bielsa was an icon. See e.g. https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/pep-gua ... 3ixlkx81g8

Benitez is probably Bielsa’s closest competition, a better record than Santo at Valencia and then won the CL with Liverpool and managed Real Madrid, Inter, and Chelsea. Santo would be in the next tier with the likes of Sven.


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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by Forbury Lion » 01 Sep 2020 15:51

What would get the fans back on side is if Nigel Howe's replacement gave an interview and admitted things have been bad, offered a promise of some stability, set out the owners goals and the plan the club have to reach it. Maybe also talk about the FFP situation, told the truth about Bowen leaving and why Howe left.
Sir John Madejski was always open and honest with the fans, If we had no transfer kitty left he'd tell us, If he said he'd be happy with top half of the table he'd tell us but also making it clear promotion was always the ultimate target.

Hopefully lines of communication within the club are clearer than those to the fans via websites/emails/media etc.

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by Nameless » 01 Sep 2020 16:04

Forbury Lion What would get the fans back on side is if Nigel Howe's replacement gave an interview and admitted things have been bad, offered a promise of some stability, set out the owners goals and the plan the club have to reach it. Maybe also talk about the FFP situation, told the truth about Bowen leaving and why Howe left.
Sir John Madejski was always open and honest with the fans, If we had no transfer kitty left he'd tell us, If he said he'd be happy with top half of the table he'd tell us but also making it clear promotion was always the ultimate target.

Hopefully lines of communication within the club are clearer than those to the fans via websites/emails/media etc.


Nigel Howe would be better placed to do that. Given he remains part of the club he’ll have a good perspective.
Didn’t people generally slate SJM forhis interviews which tended to be long on explain8ng why we weren’t going to be spending any money and short on firm information ?

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by Forbury Lion » 01 Sep 2020 16:31

Nameless
Forbury Lion What would get the fans back on side is if Nigel Howe's replacement gave an interview and admitted things have been bad, offered a promise of some stability, set out the owners goals and the plan the club have to reach it. Maybe also talk about the FFP situation, told the truth about Bowen leaving and why Howe left.
Sir John Madejski was always open and honest with the fans, If we had no transfer kitty left he'd tell us, If he said he'd be happy with top half of the table he'd tell us but also making it clear promotion was always the ultimate target.

Hopefully lines of communication within the club are clearer than those to the fans via websites/emails/media etc.


Nigel Howe would be better placed to do that. Given he remains part of the club he’ll have a good perspective.
Didn’t people generally slate SJM forhis interviews which tended to be long on explain8ng why we weren’t going to be spending any money and short on firm information ?
I didn't slate SJM and compared with the current owners, he was very informitive.

SJM was also more open and less guarded if you actually spoke to him in person, He seemed to love talking about the club when people recognise him and say hello, especially kids and I assume more so when things were going well.

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by Zip » 01 Sep 2020 17:15

tmesis
SouthDownsRoyal As someone else said years ago the new manager thing was quite exciting.p, who would we get, what would their plan be, what players will come in and also all of the circus aside, however a club is run its true that if you’re winning games you can, to a degree out the club politics to one side, but we haven’t even had that.

What's baffling is that we don't even seem to accept applications for the job any more. Our manager recruitment makes as little sense as our player recruitment.


Very good point. We have no idea who may be interested in becoming manager because the owners jump the gun and hire their preferred choice.

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by tmesis » 01 Sep 2020 18:05

Zip
tmesis
SouthDownsRoyal As someone else said years ago the new manager thing was quite exciting.p, who would we get, what would their plan be, what players will come in and also all of the circus aside, however a club is run its true that if you’re winning games you can, to a degree out the club politics to one side, but we haven’t even had that.

What's baffling is that we don't even seem to accept applications for the job any more. Our manager recruitment makes as little sense as our player recruitment.


Very good point. We have no idea who may be interested in becoming manager because the owners jump the gun and hire their preferred choice.

And it's probably not even their preferred choice, but the choice of whoever they've tasked with finding a manager.

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by Lower West » 01 Sep 2020 18:14

Seem to be making a big deal of winning the World Cup with Serbia U20's.

Paul Simpson who managed England when they won the trophy is currently Head Coach at Bristol City. No logical step that coaches make great managers. Clement being another example .

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Re: Veljko Paunović - Whelmgauge

by MM » 01 Sep 2020 18:44

Whatever the outcome of these recent decisions, the whole thing has been a shambles in my opinion.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest this new guy is more qualified or competent than Bowen, we have lost any opportunity for stability and continuity that keeping Bowen would have provided, and we have lost any chance of being able to prepare the team properly for a new season. Bowen was not perfect, but he got generally decent results with a squad that was under-performing for years, he had clear ideas and a vision on how the break would be used to evolve during the coming season. All of that has been thrown up in the air on the eve of a new season and for no apparent reason. Fair enough if this move was for somebody who could 'virtually' guarantee a tilt at promotion but that isn't the case with this new guy.

Bowen has been treated abysmally and as soon as it became clear he didn't want the other role, it showed just what a risky and unsettling act this was from the owners and their advisers. I think the owners have demonstrated their enthusiasm and support for the club since they got involved to be fair to them. They put money in to the team and infrastructure, but they are at best naive and at worst seem unable to make good choices and good decisions. Sometimes the best decisions can be to do nothing, show some patience and work to improve. I have little doubt that their 'influencers' are largely responsible for some of the decisions they make, and not in a good way.

Of course, the new manager may turn out to be great, but I'd be amazed if he does better than Bowen did last season, especially with the same group of players. And if cash is thrown at the club, why not give it to Bowen? He had shown he had enough about him to find a style and form a plan even if it didn't always work, whereas all accounts suggest the new man chops and changes all the time and alienates players for little or no reason.

My interest in what we do as a club this season has really been put to an all-time low anyway. Some of the work Ron G did can probably never be reversed, we lost a lot of soul and identity in his spell at the club. Whether my enthusiasm for the club will ever come back, I frankly have no idea. Enjoy your season guys and girls.

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