Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

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Snowball
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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Snowball » 12 Apr 2021 12:57

NOT the case that sides can't win after conceding first goal

Brentford have done it 6 times in 15 games, and drawn 4!!

Reading are 10th in the come-from-behind table

There is a very strong correlation between coming from behind (opening goal) and league position

Record when conceding first



15/40 W6 D4 L05 24-22 1.47 ppg Brentford 1 <<<<<<<<< TOP SIX
10/41 W3 D2 L05 10-14 1.10 ppg Norwich 2 <<<<<<<<< TOP SIX
18/41 W4 D4 L10 19-31 0.89 ppg Millwall 3 <<<<<<<<<<< 9th
07/41 W2 D0 L05 05/09 0.86 ppg Watford 4 <<<<<<<<< TOP SIX
14/40 W3 D2 L09 19-25 0.79 ppg Bournemouth 5 <<<<<<<<< TOP SIX
17/41 W4 D1 L12 12-28 0.76 ppg Barnsley 6 <<<<<<<<< TOP SIX

16/40 W2 D5 L09 12-24 0.69 ppg Swansea 9th <<<<<<<<< TOP SIX

15/41 W1 D4 L 10 12-28 0.47 ppg READING 10th <<<<<<<<< Seventh



BORO have W4 D3 after going behind <<<<<<<<< Currently 10th
Bristol have W3 D2 after going behind <<<<<<<<< Currently 14th

Wycombe, Luton and Preston have W2 after going behind

6 Brentford
4 Millwall
4 Barnsley
4 Boro
3 Bournemouth
3 Norwich
3 Bristol
2 Swansea
2 Wycombe
2 Luton
2 Preston

1 Cardiff
1 Stoke
1 Reading
1 Huddersfield
1 Forest
1 Blackburn
1 Coventry
1 Birmingham

0 Rotherham, Derby, Wednesday
Last edited by Snowball on 12 Apr 2021 20:22, edited 1 time in total.

Snowball
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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Snowball » 12 Apr 2021 13:18

Reading are

P 22 W18 - D1 - L03 44-17 (55 POINTS) when scoring first
P 19 W01 - D8 - L10 12-28 (11 POINTS) when conceding first
P 41 W19 - D9 - L13 56-45 (66 POINTS) overall

Nameless
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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Nameless » 12 Apr 2021 15:31

If you judge things on the pitch rather than spreadsheets we absolutely have been mixing it with the best. Almost all our games against other top 6 sides have been close, we’ve looked comfortable alongside teams with essentially PL. squads. Of course we need to be winning more of these games but to say we have not been competitive is to assume the stats tell the tale, when they don’t.

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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Snowball » 12 Apr 2021 15:50

You mean like Sheffield Utd mixing it with the best? They won a couple, drew three
and lost FOURTEEN games by a single goal 1-0 to Man City twice, 2-3 to Man Utd,
1-2 to Arsenal, 1-2 to Chelsea... lots of close games...

19 games, more than 50% where they've won, drawn or lost by a single goal
but they haven't REMOTELY actually competed and they are rooted to the bottom
of the table, second-worst-ever total for the Premier league.

1-0 Newcastle,
2-1 WBA

1-1 Burnley
1-1 Fulham
1-1 Brighton


0-1 Leeds
0-1 Villa
0-1 Man City
0-1 WBA
0-1 West Ham
0-1 Burnley
0-1 Everton
0-1 Fulham
0-1 Villa

1-2 Leicester
1-2 Chelsea
1-2 Liverpool
1-2 Arsenal
2-3 Man Utd


Lately they have been shipping more goals

0-2 Wolves
0-2 Palace
0-2 Liverpool
0-2 Chelsea
0-2 Saints
1-3 Spurs
0-3 Arsenal
0-3 Saints
0-3 West Ham
1-4 Chelsea
0-5 Leicester

Snowball
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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Snowball » 12 Apr 2021 15:56

Nameless If you judge things on the pitch rather than spreadsheets we absolutely have been mixing it with the best. Almost all our games against other top 6 sides have been close, we’ve looked comfortable alongside teams with essentially PL. squads. Of course we need to be winning more of these games but to say we have not been competitive is to assume the stats tell the tale, when they don’t.


I'm usually the one with RTGs but, sorry, I do NOT think we have "REALLY competed"
with the top ten, never mind the top six. The occasionally unlucky loss I'll give you
but 4 from 7 at home is baaad, and just is not "competing". Losing to Brentford 3-1
twice tells you what the gap is. We only took one point off Millwall, our win against
Watford was very early before they settled, and they had good chances when they were
cutting us open with ease early on. We beat a BAD Barnsley side who were 0-0 with 11
men and ended up with 9 men and we beat Bournemouth when they were in such bad
form that their manager was sacked.

We are seventh for a reason.


Hound
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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Hound » 12 Apr 2021 16:13

Snowball
Nameless If you judge things on the pitch rather than spreadsheets we absolutely have been mixing it with the best. Almost all our games against other top 6 sides have been close, we’ve looked comfortable alongside teams with essentially PL. squads. Of course we need to be winning more of these games but to say we have not been competitive is to assume the stats tell the tale, when they don’t.


I'm usually the one with RTGs but, sorry, I do NOT think we have "REALLY competed"
with the top ten, never mind the top six. The occasionally unlucky loss I'll give you
but 4 from 7 at home is baaad, and just is not "competing". Losing to Brentford 3-1
twice tells you what the gap is. We only took one point off Millwall, our win against
Watford was very early before they settled, and they had good chances when they were
cutting us open with ease early on. We beat a BAD Barnsley side who were 0-0 with 11
men and ended up with 9 men and we beat Bournemouth when they were in such bad
form that their manager was sacked.

We are seventh for a reason.


but now you're going beyond stats and making your own subjective comments. We beat Watford a load of injuries, got a point at Swansea with the same. Outplayed Bournemouth for 3 of 4 quarters, and were the better side than Brentford at home for 3/4 of the match. Were the better side than Barnsley away as well.

No real arguments against any of those dropped points. We dropped them for a reason, but our overall performances in the games were generally pretty good. The only games we really looked poor in against the top 6 was prob Brentford away and arguably Norwich at home (again though absolutely decimated by injury in both)

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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Snowball » 12 Apr 2021 16:28

Hound
Snowball
Nameless If you judge things on the pitch rather than spreadsheets we absolutely have been mixing it with the best. Almost all our games against other top 6 sides have been close, we’ve looked comfortable alongside teams with essentially PL. squads. Of course we need to be winning more of these games but to say we have not been competitive is to assume the stats tell the tale, when they don’t.


I'm usually the one with RTGs but, sorry, I do NOT think we have "REALLY competed"
with the top ten, never mind the top six. The occasionally unlucky loss I'll give you
but 4 from 7 at home is baaad, and just is not "competing". Losing to Brentford 3-1
twice tells you what the gap is. We only took one point off Millwall, our win against
Watford was very early before they settled, and they had good chances when they were
cutting us open with ease early on. We beat a BAD Barnsley side who were 0-0 with 11
men and ended up with 9 men and we beat Bournemouth when they were in such bad
form that their manager was sacked.

We are seventh for a reason.


Hound
but now you're going beyond stats and making your own subjective comments. We beat Watford a load of injuries, got a point at Swansea with the same. Outplayed Bournemouth for 3 of 4 quarters, and were the better side than Brentford at home for 3/4 of the match. Were the better side than Barnsley away as well.



Hang on, if I quote stats, they are "only stats, not the true story"

But if I try to tell a story, I'm ignoring stats.

It's a FACT that Barnsley had two red cards.
It's a FACT that it was 0-0 until the first red card.
It's a FACT that Barnsley averaged a point a game for the first ten games.

It's a fact that Bournemouth were in the middle of a poor run when they came to the Madejski, and let's remember that most Nobbers think that day was the single best half of football we played all season. So for ONE EIGHTIETH of a season-to-date, we got it right.

I haven't considered injuries because it's pointless. I'm talking about the teams that took the field. Many argued that we have a good first 11 but no depth.

Hound No real arguments against any of those dropped points. We dropped them for a reason, but our overall performances in the games were generally pretty good. The only games we really looked poor in against the top 6 was prob Brentford away and arguably Norwich at home (again though absolutely decimated by injury in both)


The reason was we were not good enough. To go 2-0 up away and then blow it and lose 4-2 (BMTH) is criminal. I've been saying all season that we lack aggression, spine, nous, character. We are mentally weak, naive.

You are talking about half X or game Y, but what part of lost 4 out of 7 at home are you disagreeing with?



I've lost count of the times over the last 15 seasons where, RFC having lost I've
said "we played well" and had a new anus drilled.

IMO it's BS to say we were better than Brentford for 3/4 of X. We lost to them. TWICE.

They are seven points clear of us with a game in hand

They have score 15 more goals and conceded 5 less

Their GD is 31 to our 11. That is not "accidental", not luck, not referees

muirinho
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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by muirinho » 12 Apr 2021 16:42

Snowball I've lost count of the times over the last 15 seasons where, RFC having lost I've
said "we played well" and had a new anus drilled.



Totally off topic, and not intending to pick on Snowball in particular - but is there any chance we could have a new phrase that means "hammered" that doesn't involve rape?

I can't be the only person in the planet that finds casual references to serious sexual assault distressing and triggering.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Apr 2021 17:45

Snowball NOT the case that sides can't win after conceding first goal

Brentford have done it 6 times in 15 games, and drawn 4!!

Reading are 10th in the come-from-behind table

I didn't say it wasn't possible. I said it was widespread. And the fact you say we're tenth for it, shows there are plenty worse and probably more about the same. = widespread.


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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Apr 2021 17:49

Nameless If you judge things on the pitch rather than spreadsheets we absolutely have been mixing it with the best. Almost all our games against other top 6 sides have been close, we’ve looked comfortable alongside teams with essentially PL. squads. Of course we need to be winning more of these games but to say we have not been competitive is to assume the stats tell the tale, when they don’t.

Absolutely this.

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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Apr 2021 17:52

muirinho
Snowball I've lost count of the times over the last 15 seasons where, RFC having lost I've
said "we played well" and had a new anus drilled.



Totally off topic, and not intending to pick on Snowball in particular - but is there any chance we could have a new phrase that means "hammered" that doesn't involve rape?

I can't be the only person in the planet that finds casual references to serious sexual assault distressing and triggering.

Feel free to pull me up if I do it, I'll try to cut it from my vocabulary

Snowball
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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Snowball » 12 Apr 2021 17:57

muirinho
Snowball I've lost count of the times over the last 15 seasons where, RFC having lost I've
said "we played well" and had a new anus drilled.



Totally off topic, and not intending to pick on Snowball in particular - but is there any chance we could have a new phrase that means "hammered" that doesn't involve rape?

I can't be the only person in the planet that finds casual references to serious sexual assault distressing and triggering.


Apologies. Phrases like this have become so commonplace we forget their sexual referent

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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Snowball » 12 Apr 2021 17:59

Snowflake Royal
Nameless If you judge things on the pitch rather than spreadsheets we absolutely have been mixing it with the best. Almost all our games against other top 6 sides have been close, we’ve looked comfortable alongside teams with essentially PL. squads. Of course we need to be winning more of these games but to say we have not been competitive is to assume the stats tell the tale, when they don’t.

Absolutely this.


Excellent. Next time we lose four out of seven to a group at home and win just one away, I’ll call it “competing”


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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Apr 2021 18:02

Snowball
Snowflake Royal
Nameless If you judge things on the pitch rather than spreadsheets we absolutely have been mixing it with the best. Almost all our games against other top 6 sides have been close, we’ve looked comfortable alongside teams with essentially PL. squads. Of course we need to be winning more of these games but to say we have not been competitive is to assume the stats tell the tale, when they don’t.

Absolutely this.


Excellent. Next time we lose four out of seven to a group at home and win just one away, I’ll call it “competing”


You wanna be a dick about it, that's your prerogative.

Snowball
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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Snowball » 12 Apr 2021 18:02

Snowflake Royal
Snowball NOT the case that sides can't win after conceding first goal

Brentford have done it 6 times in 15 games, and drawn 4!!

Reading are 10th in the come-from-behind table

I didn't say it wasn't possible. I said it was widespread. And the fact you say we're tenth for it, shows there are plenty worse and probably more about the same. = widespread.



Yes but 5/6 of the top six do FAR better than us. Brentford win 600% compared to us

So, yet another stat to show we are not yet quite good enough

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Apr 2021 18:04

Maybe save some time and just look at the League table?

muirinho
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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by muirinho » 12 Apr 2021 18:16

Snowball
Apologies. Phrases like this have become so commonplace we forget their sexual referent


Appreciated

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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Stranded » 12 Apr 2021 18:45

Snowflake Royal Maybe save some time and just look at the League table?


To be fait here, you can be competing in terms of points gained but not in a head to head. Just means we've picked up points somewhere else.

In individual games we have matched most opponents around us but there must be a reason that in the vast majority we come up second, even when our noses were in front.

That Bournemouth defeat will haunt us. To lose from a 2-0 cushion is a difference between wondering if they will be a point behind us coming into a tough week for them or them being 5 ahead. Sadly, I think that game more than any will frame our season. We went from competing to rolling out the red carpet.

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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Zip » 12 Apr 2021 20:04

Snowball Reading are

P 22 W18 - D1 - L03 44-17 (55 POINTS) when scoring first
P 19 W01 - D8 - L10 12-28 (11 POINTS) when conceding first
P 41 W19 - D9 - L13 56-45 (66 POINTS) overall


This is the biggest problem. We are never winning promotion when we are so poor at fighting back from going behind. A lot of those defeats were like Watford in that once we conceded we did so again very quickly. Then it was game over.
On the upside we do very well when we score first but for it to matter so much as to who scores first is mad.

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Re: Where do we go from here 21/22 season?

by Snowball » 12 Apr 2021 20:19

Most of us are aware of our form since the first 8 games

But I hadn't realised how in that time some of the other sides in the top six
had done so well. Norwich, for example gained 32 points in 33 games, a
whopping 45 points a season, give or take.

Really interesting (to me at least) that the current top six
are also top six for the 33 games. Hard to argue with that!

1 33 23 07 03 56 21 +35 76 Norwich
2 33 20 07 06 51 23 +28 67 Watford
3 33 20 04 09 45 34 +11 64 Barnsley
4 32 17 11 04 58 29 +29 62 Brentford
5 32 17 06 09 38 26 +12 57 Swansea
6 32 15 07 10 53 33 +20 52 Bournemouth

7 33 14 7 12 50 38 +12 49 Cardiff
8 32 14 7 11 41 37 +04 49 Queens Park Rangers
9 33 13 5 15 40 40 +00 44 Middlesbrough
10 33 12 8 13 41 42 -01 44 Reading

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