Pauno out

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URZZZZ
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Re: Pauno out

by URZZZZ » 22 Apr 2021 10:06

Brogue since the turn of the year, we have 31 points from 21 games. I can't see us getting anything from the final 3 games. which will put us on 31 points from 24 games. 1.2ppg. do that over a season its 55 points. Since the turn of the year, we are running at just above relegation form. it's a worthy discussion. Lose our last three games ( which is likely) it will be 1 win in 11 games :| . I don't care who you are that's shit and worthy of the sack. injuries or not the squad he has at his disposal is underperforming and has been for some time


That’s an interesting assumption to make that we’re going to get 3 losses from 3 when we’ve lost 2 of the last 11 :|

Main problem is not enough wins in that run. Partly due to our conservative nature

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Re: Pauno out

by Brogue » 22 Apr 2021 10:10

URZZZZ
Brogue since the turn of the year, we have 31 points from 21 games. I can't see us getting anything from the final 3 games. which will put us on 31 points from 24 games. 1.2ppg. do that over a season its 55 points. Since the turn of the year, we are running at just above relegation form. it's a worthy discussion. Lose our last three games ( which is likely) it will be 1 win in 11 games :| . I don't care who you are that's shit and worthy of the sack. injuries or not the squad he has at his disposal is underperforming and has been for some time


That’s an interesting assumption to make that we’re going to get 3 losses from 3 when we’ve lost 2 of the last 11 :|

Main problem is not enough wins in that run. Partly due to our conservative nature


You think we will get anything from Norwich and Swansea? I don’t, and the last game will be a dead rubber which we might get a point from.

Average tenure of a championship manager? 374 days. https://sqaf.club/average-premier-leagu ... me-in-job/

Pauno won’t be in charge come start of next season.

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Re: Pauno out

by Sanguine » 22 Apr 2021 10:14

So is it promotion or bust now? And every season?

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Re: Pauno out

by Hound » 22 Apr 2021 10:31

Even with us likely ending 7th, its overall probably a 7 out of 10 season. With a horrible list of injuries at times (the more I watch us, the more I think Swift is far and away our best player), no time preseason for signings, no money in Jan. Objectively looking at the season as a whole its been a success in many ways.

Obvs there's plenty to criticise Pauno for - the dodgy lack of/latesubs, lack of trust in Baldock and Aluko despite some good cameos, overly cautious approach at times, but he's done a good job overall.

Lets see where we are at Christmas next year. Up there and challenging again, then great. Bottom half, he'll probably be on his bike

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Re: Pauno out

by leon » 22 Apr 2021 10:38

Coppells Lost Coat
Vision
Coppells Lost Coat My 2 cents.

- Awful injury record
- A subs bench FULL of players that probably not gunna be here next season.
- IMO our pivotal players (Olise / Ejaria / Joao) are inconsistent at best.

His plan B has been slow and awful to watch. But if you look at the points above what is he supposed to do? His hands are tied.
This summer will be interesting. Zero money to spend plus a lot of our players are in the shop window.


I said on another thread that I think those pivotal players have been run into the ground. They're flair players and Just not used to carrying the workload they've carried this season.

Ejaria gets a lot of stick on here for a supposed lack of urgency but what he's asked to do in this team in this team means he covers an awful lot of ground when we don't have the ball. I'd imagine thats not something he'll have experienced before over a whole season.


So are you saying that we done a Leeds (from previous seasons) - Pauno has over worked the squad and with no depth,the latter stage of the season we have fallen off?

With the prospect of no money being available in the summer plus the potential of losing a few players, I wouldn't mind seeing more of Tetek / Dorsett and Onen.


So you're a confirmed Onenist?


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Re: Pauno out

by URZZZZ » 22 Apr 2021 10:39

10539.4 Miles Away Agree that more subs would be nice but can you honestly say that if you were manager you'd turn round, look at the bench and see Aluko, Baldock and think "Yep, there's my matchwinners"


Yeah, must be awful to have two players with 400+ Championship games between them, 3 promotion campaigns and a few playoff ones too

Meanwhile, Woodgate (a manager most agreed wasn’t good enough for Bournemouth) brings on Surridge (very much a fringe player) at half time on Saturday against 10 men Norwich, goes two up top and they win the game 3-1 after being 1 down at half time. Our manager would have waited until the 75th minute to make that change

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Re: Pauno out

by Millsy » 22 Apr 2021 10:39

Hands up who prefers us to be playoff contenders every season in the champ?

vs midtable champ
vs relegation champ
vs relegation PL

Those are the only realistic options for the next 10 years probably.

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Re: Pauno out

by Millsy » 22 Apr 2021 10:41

leon
Coppells Lost Coat
With the prospect of no money being available in the summer plus the potential of losing a few players, I wouldn't mind seeing more of Tetek / Dorsett and Onen.


So you're a confirmed Onenist?


:lol:

What an unfortunate name, poor Jayden.

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Re: Pauno out

by Snowball » 22 Apr 2021 10:44

Millsy
The concern - and I don't necessarily subscribe to it but I am mindful of it it - is that it's an issue of trend. Are those first 8 games really "his success" and something we can legitimately spread out? Or was it a mixture of very good luck (look at our shots/goals - all pundits could see what was coming), typical new manager honeymoon period, momentum, Joao's magic spell of Kebe-ness?

This is why people are saying "take out the first 8 games" because there are two distinct Readings we're talking about. It's not as simple as just spreading those games out. If they were actually spread out throughout the season we'd be fine with it.


Millsy
The concern - and I don't necessarily subscribe to it but I am mindful of it it - is that it's an issue of trend. Are those first 8 games really "his success" and something we can legitimately spread out? Or was it a mixture of very good luck (look at our shots/goals - all pundits could see what was coming), typical new manager honeymoon period, momentum, Joao's magic spell of Kebe-ness?

This is why people are saying "take out the first 8 games" because there are two distinct Readings we're talking about. It's not as simple as just spreading those games out. If they were actually spread out throughout the season we'd be fine with it.


In that first eight, as far as I recollect, we were ultra-defensive, and apart from one game we "surrendered" the first 30 minutes and other sides had a lot of ball. Some of them should have scored first (Watford, for example) and lowly Colchester looked great (and scored) before we managed to impose ourselves.

I for one posted that I was worried that some team would eventually put 3 goals on us before we started to play. We were calling it "rope a dope" remember, classic Muhammud Ali in the ring.

Then the xG pundits started saying we couldn't POSSIBLY keep it up, that "the law of averages" (or whatever) would bring us down to earth "eventually".

And, sadly, Pauno heard it and started to allow Laurent and Rhino to be more expansive. We looked better going forward but we started shipping goals. We may have won at Blackburn (a freak game, IMO) but we did ship 2 goals and in the next game we lost at Coventry, shipping 3 goals. Our 5-game goals conceded was 2-3-3-3-4 (even tho' we won the first)

Over the first 7 games we tied up the centre but conceded crosses which Morrison-Moore just lapped up. But (I think) Pauno was listening to experts. I think we should have continued the ultra-safe method until it was clearly failing

Time of Reading Goals

45-56-75 Colchester
--------------------------------- Luton
40-45 Derby
67-76 Barnsley
47-65 Cardiff
42 Watford
------------------------------- BORO
63 Wycombe

Just look at the Reading goals as a group


40-42-45-45
47-56-63-65-67-75-76

Average 55 minutes

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

and First Goal?

40
42
45
47
63
67

51st Minute

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Then came the Blackburn game. Our first goal was a freak in a few seconds but we were obviously “going for it” in a way we hadn’t gone for it in earlier games. Goals on 1-14-17 but CONCEDING on 2 and 65. Blackburn had 13 shots, 6 on target to our 5 (4). We clinched it with Joao (again) and late (again).

The mould had been broken and at Coventry the opening was “frantic” and end to end, we conceded in the 22nd and the rest is history. (Aluko started!)

We hen lost 0-3, 0-3, and 4-2 away

Home to away-specialists Preston we had 17 shots (5 OT) and drew a blank. Preston had 5 on target and scored 3.

We tend to remember scores and imagine we were outplayed at home by Stoke. In fact we bossed it (ie we didn’t sit back) and Stoke defended resolutely and pinched two goals on the break. Then on 90 Gibson gave away a very soft goal.

In earlier games we had won with far less chances (and a silly xG). Now the tables were turned. We had 15 shots, 5 on target (as many as at Blackburn) but failed to score. Stoke scored with all 3 of their shots on target.

Then came Bournemouth where we attacked well but imploded at the back.


Seems to me Pauno had a model, ultra-defensive, TWO quite-rigid DMs, soak up pressure, play on the break, creep into the game after 30 minutes, maybe get a goal before HT, but win the second halves.



That worked perfectly for the first 6 games but relied on a very high conversion rate.



When we became more expansive we started shipping goals and the bubble was burst.

We are rarely good at chasing games, we don’t have pacy wingers and don’t do well against sides who park the bus. We had a system which wasn’t pretty but was getting results, changed, shipped a lot of goals, and lost our way.



There IS a reason why we have to separate out the first eight games. We played a totally different way. Pauno lost his nerve, we became more expansive and showed we DIDN’T have a fantastic defense, so we slipped to being a mid-table team with a couple of stars who scored individual goals to elevate us to about 10th (7th because of the start)


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Re: Pauno out

by Silver Fox » 22 Apr 2021 10:51

Hound Even with us likely ending 7th, its overall probably a 7 out of 10 season. With a horrible list of injuries at times (the more I watch us, the more I think Swift is far and away our best player), no time preseason for signings, no money in Jan. Objectively looking at the season as a whole its been a success in many ways.

Obvs there's plenty to criticise Pauno for - the dodgy lack of/latesubs, lack of trust in Baldock and Aluko despite some good cameos, overly cautious approach at times, but he's done a good job overall.

Lets see where we are at Christmas next year. Up there and challenging again, then great. Bottom half, he'll probably be on his bike


This is all correct (apart from the bit about Baldock and Aluko :wink: )

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Re: Pauno out

by Simmops » 22 Apr 2021 10:52

This has got to be one of the most pathetic topics ever on here

We've been dog shit for 5 years and we are actually half decent and people are pissing the bed about it?! :lol:

Give your heads a wobble

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Re: Pauno out

by Millsy » 22 Apr 2021 10:58

Good (if long) post Snowball. I agree with a lot of that.

So you just think it's just a question of style? If Pauno goes back to his ultradefensive style of the first 8 games it'll work?

But you yourself admit that depended on an unreasonably freakish conversion rate i.e. luck or absolute world class attackers.

Pundits knew it wouldn't last and they were right, because while Joao is good we don't actually have a world class attack, so in a nutshell, we must've been somewhat lucky. You're right I remember several games where we could've been 2-0 down but nicked a random goal against the run of play to win. Some say that's the sign of a good team though, I get that.
Last edited by Millsy on 22 Apr 2021 10:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pauno out

by genome » 22 Apr 2021 10:58

Hound Even with us likely ending 7th, its overall probably a 7 out of 10 season.


Technically it would be a 7 out of 24 season


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Re: Pauno out

by Millsy » 22 Apr 2021 11:01

genome
Hound Even with us likely ending 7th, its overall probably a 7 out of 10 season.


Technically it would be a 18 out of 24 season


Corrected for you.

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Re: Pauno out

by Zip » 22 Apr 2021 11:03

Sanguine
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You would have to totally alter the style of play and personnel for it to work with Wilder imo. Would rather give Pauno the first part of next season and if we are still struggling in the Autumn then time to say goodbye. Let’s give him more time. I think he deserves it given the lack of funding available to strengthen the squad.


He's had a season. We'll likely finish 7th, having comfortably finished bottom half for the last three years. And he gets until the autumn? Dear me.


What are you banging on about again. Gomes did a great job keeping us up but was then sacked in the Autumn after a poor start to the following season. That’s what happens in football. If we start poorly next season after a poor end to this season Pauno will be gone. Pipe down.

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Re: Pauno out

by andrew1957 » 22 Apr 2021 11:08

In truth whatever we think about whether Pauno should stay or go is irrelevant as it is the owners who will decide. But what I would urge them is to decide whether or not Pauno is the man for the job and either keep him for the long run or ditch him this summer and find someone they can stick with for 3+ years. Constantly changing managers is pointless and will just doom us to ever more disappointment. We need a long period of stability.

For me I would stick with him. I do have reservations for all the reasons already mentioned. We have looked increasingly one dimensional and lacking ideas as the season has progressed. However, when we consider the relatively low ebb that the club was at when he took over a 7th place finish is not to be sneezed at. And my take on it is that we have not had a lot of luck this season. Every time we have achieved some sort of momentum, we seem to have had injures to key players, particularly in defence. And we seem to have often been playing opposition teams just as they are going into a period of form - rather than the opposite. Let alone the fact that 3 of the teams above us have just been relegated form the PL and have multi-million pound players and huge squads to call on each week. Swansea and Brentford were top teams last season that only narrowly missed out on promotion. That only leaves Barnsley who we could (perhaps should) be ahead of, but they have had a remarkable run and we can hardly resent their moment in the sun. I would love to see them beat the other three and get to the PL.

I do worry about next season whoever the manager is. If we are stuffed by FFP and lose a lot of our best players such as Richards and Olise and possibly Jaoa and those out of contract such as McIntyre, Morrison as we are unable to offer them new deals and so forth, we will have a much weaker squad next time. Let alone the possibility of a points deduction. Taking all this into account survival might be an achievement rather than promotion.

And so I look ahead more with trepidation than positivity for 2021/22. I hope I am wrong and that we can overcome the obstacles. But the owners do need to decide once and for all if Pauno is the man for them and if so they need to stick with him.

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Re: Pauno out

by Zip » 22 Apr 2021 11:16

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Millsy Obviously a troll post and this doesn't even cross the mind of most sane fans.

But in all seriousness... Have we ever had such a monumental drop in form in one season before?

Was it 7points clear of second and now ridiculously bad form and dropping out of the top 6.

Iirc Dellor went through all the stats at 8 games or so and I'm not sure there were any teams with the start we had at that didn't end up in the playoffs at least.

One trick pony getting the youth motivated but no other ideas? Or top manager with just bad luck with injuries (João, right backs and lately Morro)?

Time will tell as we see what he manages next season. If we're not doing well by Xmas he'll probably be gone. Knowing our owners it could even be sooner.


If he starts badly next season he will be gone. Just look at Jose Gomes

Gomes was never good in the first place. He was likeable and briefly not awful.


The point being is if our current form continues to the end of this season and carries on for the first dozen games next season Pauno will be gone. There is no way our owners would accept an average of something like a point a game over what would amount to half a season albeit encompassing 20/21 and 21/22. That’s the reality.

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Re: Pauno out

by Sanguine » 22 Apr 2021 11:54

Zip
Sanguine
Zip
You would have to totally alter the style of play and personnel for it to work with Wilder imo. Would rather give Pauno the first part of next season and if we are still struggling in the Autumn then time to say goodbye. Let’s give him more time. I think he deserves it given the lack of funding available to strengthen the squad.


He's had a season. We'll likely finish 7th, having comfortably finished bottom half for the last three years. And he gets until the autumn? Dear me.


What are you banging on about again. Gomes did a great job keeping us up but was then sacked in the Autumn after a poor start to the following season. That’s what happens in football. If we start poorly next season after a poor end to this season Pauno will be gone. Pipe down.


You have a bizarre attitude. Just told someone to 'pipe down' for having a view. I must have misunderstood. I directed my response directly at you because you seemed to be of the view that he should have no more than the autumn. Your subsequent post suggests 'that's just football'.

Which is it? To give me a fair shot. Is it your view, or that of football in general? Either way, it's a ridiculous point of view.

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Re: Pauno out

by Millsy » 22 Apr 2021 12:14

OK, so thus far most of us seem to be saying ludicrous that he should go, but there is likely some disagreement as to whether he should next season if not good enough, so let me ask people to stick their necks out....

IF

A) there are no huge unexpected changes in personnel (i.e. perhaps Richards goes but we get a step in) or Olise but we have Swift back from injury

AND


B) come Xmas we're 16th or below with uninspiring hit and miss performances much like we've come to expect since the Magic 8

AND

c) there is a viable alternative option

would YOU be Pauno IN or Pauno OUT?
Last edited by Millsy on 22 Apr 2021 12:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pauno out

by URZZZZZZZZ » 22 Apr 2021 12:20

Just a quick reminder that in Farke’s first season at Norwich they finished 14th.

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