Reasons to be hopeful?

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Stranded » 01 Jun 2022 13:36

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Unless he makes it clear he wants out 2m is just not worth it - as it gives us little to nothing to reinvest in future. I am OK with selling but it has to be worthwhile at the same time. Unless, as said saving his 15k pw allows us to make 2 decent free agent/loan signings.


Will be on a salary far higher than £15k a week. Probably one of the highest earners left. If we are unable to offload Puscas then letting Joao go might be the best option. Then structure the team to play to Puscas's strengths. Puscas is far less injury prone and would at least be a consistant presence throughout the season.


I'm not sure he is on a wage higher than £15k a week, not significantly anyway. The only real "overpaid" earner that we need to move on is Moore, the rest are pretty reasonably paid at this level.


Yep. You take it with a pinch of salt naturally but every site that lists wages have Joao on or around 15k basic.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Lower West » 01 Jun 2022 14:06

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Unless he makes it clear he wants out 2m is just not worth it - as it gives us little to nothing to reinvest in future. I am OK with selling but it has to be worthwhile at the same time. Unless, as said saving his 15k pw allows us to make 2 decent free agent/loan signings.


Will be on a salary far higher than £15k a week. Probably one of the highest earners left. If we are unable to offload Puscas then letting Joao go might be the best option. Then structure the team to play to Puscas's strengths. Puscas is far less injury prone and would at least be a consistant presence throughout the season.


I'm not sure he is on a wage higher than £15k a week, not significantly anyway. The only real "overpaid" earner that we need to move on is Moore, the rest are pretty reasonably paid at this level.


Not a question of what's reasonable. It's returning the club's finances to a sustainable level that will be the driver of events. With home attendances in decline for around a decade now. The task becomes increasingly harder.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by The Royal Forester » 01 Jun 2022 14:28

Simon's Church I'm very much looking forward to being back in the same division as Wycombe, Oxford and maybe even Swindon next year. Re-ignite some of the old rivalries.

I can't see Wyombe and Oxf*rd both being promoted, and how will Swineden jump a division?

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Einstein agogo » 01 Jun 2022 14:33

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 01 Jun 2022 16:05

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Will be on a salary far higher than £15k a week. Probably one of the highest earners left. If we are unable to offload Puscas then letting Joao go might be the best option. Then structure the team to play to Puscas's strengths. Puscas is far less injury prone and would at least be a consistant presence throughout the season.


I'm not sure he is on a wage higher than £15k a week, not significantly anyway. The only real "overpaid" earner that we need to move on is Moore, the rest are pretty reasonably paid at this level.


Not a question of what's reasonable. It's returning the club's finances to a sustainable level that will be the driver of events. With home attendances in decline for around a decade now. The task becomes increasingly harder.


With the sales/departures of Moore (£30k p/w), Swift (£25k p/w), Rafael (£20k p/w) and Puscas (£15k p/w), that would save £90k p/w on our wage bill. Our total wage bill from the start of this season was £256,810 p/w (this is going off FM22 figures just for a reference/guideline). That works out at a cut down of 35% of our total wage bill, just through 4 players, it doesn't even include others who have/are likely to leave either. £15k per week is definitely affordable/sustainable for some players with the level we are at now I'd say.

I'm not sure what commercial work goes on behind closed-doors at our club but, as a Championship club, if we are struggling to sustain a weekly wage bill of around £166,000 per week (which only 5 clubs last season had a lower total than, 2 of whom went down), then we shouldn't be competing at this level.


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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Royal_jimmy » 01 Jun 2022 16:14

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YorkshireRoyal99 What is to say Joao will leave on a free at the end of next season just because his contract is up? He might not do, but nothing to say he will leave, the same applies with Meite.

The top team is without anybody signing on at all, which I find unlikely, which means we'd have 4 first team positions to fill minimum along with squad players as well. We know that we will likely be making around 10 signings this summer anyway, but the players in the top team is still a good enough base to have a competitive squad for this season.


If you think Joao will sign a new deal then you must think we are going up - no way he stays - he'll be 30 in September '23 so probably has one pay day left, which he won't get here.

Currently, I'll be mildly surprised if we see him a Reading shirt again.


It may all be trivial anyway as apparently Norwich, Watford, Burnley and Middlesbrough are all interested in taking Joao off us this summer, which would be a massive blow. I'd take a good couple of million for him though with him being in the last year of his contract.


It's extremely hard to find any optimism at all. As I mentioned earlier, I think this season will be more painful than the one just gone.

1. Ince - unproven manager at this level and failed at Blackpool. Did ok in lower leagues but that's easier than this level.
2. Swift - gone (source of our goals and creativity)
3. Joao - likely to be sold (only championship quality forward at the club) with a great record for us
4. Meite - could well be sold too
5. Southwood - not up to it currently but likely to be sold/loaned. May eventually come good
6. Players out of contract - only really care about Yiadom and Laurent staying. Rinomhota, Morrison and Holmes if they left I wouldn't be upset about
7. No scouts at the club - probably rely more on fraud Kia
8. The championship looks stronger this year at the bottom of the table

We need about 10 signings (1-2 keepers, a left back, a right back, a centre back if Moore goes, 2 CMs, a replacement for Swift and 2 strikers. I don't trust us to recruit those positions well enough, our recruitment has been dire for years and Bowen coming back won't improve that overnight. It'll be hard to recruit offering low wages too, we'll likely see a big dip in quality.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 01 Jun 2022 16:59

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If you think Joao will sign a new deal then you must think we are going up - no way he stays - he'll be 30 in September '23 so probably has one pay day left, which he won't get here.

Currently, I'll be mildly surprised if we see him a Reading shirt again.


It may all be trivial anyway as apparently Norwich, Watford, Burnley and Middlesbrough are all interested in taking Joao off us this summer, which would be a massive blow. I'd take a good couple of million for him though with him being in the last year of his contract.


It's extremely hard to find any optimism at all. As I mentioned earlier, I think this season will be more painful than the one just gone.

1. Ince - unproven manager at this level and failed at Blackpool. Did ok in lower leagues but that's easier than this level.
2. Swift - gone (source of our goals and creativity)
3. Joao - likely to be sold (only championship quality forward at the club) with a great record for us
4. Meite - could well be sold too
5. Southwood - not up to it currently but likely to be sold/loaned. May eventually come good
6. Players out of contract - only really care about Yiadom and Laurent staying. Rinomhota, Morrison and Holmes if they left I wouldn't be upset about
7. No scouts at the club - probably rely more on fraud Kia
8. The championship looks stronger this year at the bottom of the table

We need about 10 signings (1-2 keepers, a left back, a right back, a centre back if Moore goes, 2 CMs, a replacement for Swift and 2 strikers. I don't trust us to recruit those positions well enough, our recruitment has been dire for years and Bowen coming back won't improve that overnight. It'll be hard to recruit offering low wages too, we'll likely see a big dip in quality.


Yeah, I can see the viewpoint from the other end of the spectrum, but I think the club are beginning to put measures in place for a better short, medium and long-term future. Bowen and Carey coming to the club is a massive plus, that certainly helps our recruitment network.

I think the likes of Swift (already gone), Joao and Meite leaving is a big concern because we don't have any ready-made or any replacements in general as we know right now. I'm not going to concern myself too much until we know exactly what our squad looks like come the end of the transfer window, but of course they are players we wouldn't ideally like to lose.

I'm still not sold on the quality of Ince as a manager myself, but then again I haven't for the past few managers we've hired, simply because I ask myself "what other Championship club would hire Bowen, Pauno or Ince as their manager". Maybe harsher on Pauno out of the 3 as he's never been in English football and had a lot more experience than the other 2 in recent times, but you still question who would make those appointments.

Bowen brought Laurent in who has been a success story for us in the last couple of years and had plans in place to move others on that may have benefitted the club, particularly financially. Yes, a sample of 1 player and a couple of potential outgoings in one summer isn't much to go by, but it's about as positive as I can get about the situation, but I think our recruitment may well improve this summer, I'm optimistic anyway.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Jun 2022 17:49

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Unless he makes it clear he wants out 2m is just not worth it - as it gives us little to nothing to reinvest in future. I am OK with selling but it has to be worthwhile at the same time. Unless, as said saving his 15k pw allows us to make 2 decent free agent/loan signings.


Will be on a salary far higher than £15k a week. Probably one of the highest earners left. If we are unable to offload Puscas then letting Joao go might be the best option. Then structure the team to play to Puscas's strengths. Puscas is far less injury prone and would at least be a consistant presence throughout the season.


I'm not sure he is on a wage higher than £15k a week, not significantly anyway. The only real "overpaid" earner that we need to move on is Moore, the rest are pretty reasonably paid at this level.

Not for our budget.

Even our top earners shouldn't be earning much more than £16k a week.

We can't afford inflated championship wages, we need to pay sustainable Championship wages. Even a £16m wage bill will see us making a 7 figure loss most seasons.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Royal_jimmy » 01 Jun 2022 18:23

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Will be on a salary far higher than £15k a week. Probably one of the highest earners left. If we are unable to offload Puscas then letting Joao go might be the best option. Then structure the team to play to Puscas's strengths. Puscas is far less injury prone and would at least be a consistant presence throughout the season.


I'm not sure he is on a wage higher than £15k a week, not significantly anyway. The only real "overpaid" earner that we need to move on is Moore, the rest are pretty reasonably paid at this level.

Not for our budget.

Even our top earners shouldn't be earning much more than £16k a week.

We can't afford inflated championship wages, we need to pay sustainable Championship wages. Even a £16m wage bill will see us making a 7 figure loss most seasons.


Agree with that. Although with Joao he probably deserves his wage with the quality he brings and isn't grossly overpaid unlike Moore who is milking the club dry.

Puscas is a good player in the right system but we can get the same or better value from someone else. A fee will help a bit as well.

One positive is if we do go down this season we wont have any crazily high earners in league one! As they will all have gone. So would make any rebuild a bit easier.


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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by SouthDownsRoyal » 02 Jun 2022 08:49

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It may all be trivial anyway as apparently Norwich, Watford, Burnley and Middlesbrough are all interested in taking Joao off us this summer, which would be a massive blow. I'd take a good couple of million for him though with him being in the last year of his contract.


Unless he makes it clear he wants out 2m is just not worth it - as it gives us little to nothing to reinvest in future. I am OK with selling but it has to be worthwhile at the same time. Unless, as said saving his 15k pw allows us to make 2 decent free agent/loan signings.


Will be on a salary far higher than £15k a week. Probably one of the highest earners left. If we are unable to offload Puscas then letting Joao go might be the best option. Then structure the team to play to Puscas's strengths. Puscas is far less injury prone and would at least be a consistant presence throughout the season.



Puscas has strengths?

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by SouthDownsRoyal » 02 Jun 2022 08:49

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by SouthDownsRoyal » 02 Jun 2022 08:52

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I'm not sure he is on a wage higher than £15k a week, not significantly anyway. The only real "overpaid" earner that we need to move on is Moore, the rest are pretty reasonably paid at this level.

Not for our budget.

Even our top earners shouldn't be earning much more than £16k a week.

We can't afford inflated championship wages, we need to pay sustainable Championship wages. Even a £16m wage bill will see us making a 7 figure loss most seasons.


Agree with that. Although with Joao he probably deserves his wage with the quality he brings and isn't grossly overpaid unlike Moore who is milking the club dry.

Puscas is a good player in the right system but we can get the same or better value from someone else. A fee will help a bit as well.

One positive is if we do go down this season we wont have any crazily high earners in league one! As they will all have gone. So would make any rebuild a bit easier.



Think you’ve been hacked m8, the word positive is in your post

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by oldebiscuit » 02 Jun 2022 17:08

I would imagine that this coming season, we will be playing with players from the academy mixed with the players that no other Club wanted to take off our hands, and maybe a few loan players.

We must be relegation favourites at the Bookies, surely, but then so be it. Drop down a league and find our level, and then attempt a rebuilding programme. It must be better to see us winning and hopefully comfortable in league 1 than getting whipped almost every week in the Championship with the aim of hopefully finishing 4th from bottom again.

And to those youngsters that think that this is a defeatist attitude, then I need to point out that in war sometimes you give up your ground and retreat, before launching your counter offensive which hopefully gains more ground than you previously surrendered.

Apart from Manchester City who can break all the rules on spending, and throw millions at legal fees defending any allegations, and the occasional Dark Horse (Forest this season) Team building takes a few seasons at least. Be patient.


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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by paddy20 » 03 Jun 2022 09:36

oldebiscuit I would imagine that this coming season, we will be playing with players from the academy mixed with the players that no other Club wanted to take off our hands, and maybe a few loan players.

We must be relegation favourites at the Bookies, surely, but then so be it. Drop down a league and find our level, and then attempt a rebuilding programme. It must be better to see us winning and hopefully comfortable in league 1 than getting whipped almost every week in the Championship with the aim of hopefully finishing 4th from bottom again.

And to those youngsters that think that this is a defeatist attitude, then I need to point out that in war sometimes you give up your ground and retreat, before launching your counter offensive which hopefully gains more ground than you previously surrendered.

Apart from Manchester City who can break all the rules on spending, and throw millions at legal fees defending any allegations, and the occasional Dark Horse (Forest this season) Team building takes a few seasons at least. Be patient.


I'm guessing from your user name you have been supporting for a long time. Surely therefore you can remember how dire it was playing in the lower leagues. Given our present circumstances the loss of income from relegation could well mean we wouldn't return for a long time. I think we have to realise how valuable it is to be in the championship.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by SouthDownsRoyal » 03 Jun 2022 09:56

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oldebiscuit I would imagine that this coming season, we will be playing with players from the academy mixed with the players that no other Club wanted to take off our hands, and maybe a few loan players.

We must be relegation favourites at the Bookies, surely, but then so be it. Drop down a league and find our level, and then attempt a rebuilding programme. It must be better to see us winning and hopefully comfortable in league 1 than getting whipped almost every week in the Championship with the aim of hopefully finishing 4th from bottom again.

And to those youngsters that think that this is a defeatist attitude, then I need to point out that in war sometimes you give up your ground and retreat, before launching your counter offensive which hopefully gains more ground than you previously surrendered.

Apart from Manchester City who can break all the rules on spending, and throw millions at legal fees defending any allegations, and the occasional Dark Horse (Forest this season) Team building takes a few seasons at least. Be patient.


I'm guessing from your user name you have been supporting for a long time. Surely therefore you can remember how dire it was playing in the lower leagues. Given our present circumstances the loss of income from relegation could well mean we wouldn't return for a long time. I think we have to realise how valuable it is to be in the championship.



Well said

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by blythspartan » 03 Jun 2022 10:27

oldebiscuit I would imagine that this coming season, we will be playing with players from the academy mixed with the players that no other Club wanted to take off our hands, and maybe a few loan players.

We must be relegation favourites at the Bookies, surely, but then so be it. Drop down a league and find our level, and then attempt a rebuilding programme. It must be better to see us winning and hopefully comfortable in league 1 than getting whipped almost every week in the Championship with the aim of hopefully finishing 4th from bottom again.

And to those youngsters that think that this is a defeatist attitude, then I need to point out that in war sometimes you give up your ground and retreat, before launching your counter offensive which hopefully gains more ground than you previously surrendered.

Apart from Manchester City who can break all the rules on spending, and throw millions at legal fees defending any allegations, and the occasional Dark Horse (Forest this season) Team building takes a few seasons at least. Be patient.


I am not disagreeing with all of this but whilst I’d support Reading in any league I would rather it be in the Championship, as the loss in revenue could be quite catastrophic given our current predicament. Plus, some of it sounds more pessimistic than hopeful.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Lower West » 03 Jun 2022 10:39

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oldebiscuit I would imagine that this coming season, we will be playing with players from the academy mixed with the players that no other Club wanted to take off our hands, and maybe a few loan players.

We must be relegation favourites at the Bookies, surely, but then so be it. Drop down a league and find our level, and then attempt a rebuilding programme. It must be better to see us winning and hopefully comfortable in league 1 than getting whipped almost every week in the Championship with the aim of hopefully finishing 4th from bottom again.

And to those youngsters that think that this is a defeatist attitude, then I need to point out that in war sometimes you give up your ground and retreat, before launching your counter offensive which hopefully gains more ground than you previously surrendered.

Apart from Manchester City who can break all the rules on spending, and throw millions at legal fees defending any allegations, and the occasional Dark Horse (Forest this season) Team building takes a few seasons at least. Be patient.


I am not disagreeing with all of this but whilst I’d support Reading in any league I would rather it be in the Championship, as the loss in revenue could be quite catastrophic given our current predicament. Plus, some of it sounds more pessimistic than hopeful.


Ticket prices are no cheaper in the lower divisions.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by muirinho » 03 Jun 2022 11:34

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blythspartan I am not disagreeing with all of this but whilst I’d support Reading in any league I would rather it be in the Championship, as the loss in revenue could be quite catastrophic given our current predicament. Plus, some of it sounds more pessimistic than hopeful.


Ticket prices are no cheaper in the lower divisions.


Not sure what you're getting at here. Tickets might cost the same, but less people will buy them. The basic award is way less, the solidarity payment from the Premier League is way less, - I'm not sure if the fee for a televised game is less, but they are few and far between in the lower leagues, so tV money is less. Commercial sponsorship deals etc will also generate less money

It is a big drop in income.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Lower West » 03 Jun 2022 16:28

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blythspartan I am not disagreeing with all of this but whilst I’d support Reading in any league I would rather it be in the Championship, as the loss in revenue could be quite catastrophic given our current predicament. Plus, some of it sounds more pessimistic than hopeful.


Ticket prices are no cheaper in the lower divisions.


Not sure what you're getting at here. Tickets might cost the same, but less people will buy them. The basic award is way less, the solidarity payment from the Premier League is way less, - I'm not sure if the fee for a televised game is less, but they are few and far between in the lower leagues, so tV money is less. Commercial sponsorship deals etc will also generate less money

It is a big drop in income.


Attendances have been in decline for a decade. The division alone isn't going to determine how many people turn up. The entertainment value has to improve as well. In what are difficult financial times for many. Reconnection between fans and the club is probaly at a multi decade low. Rebuilding on many levels is going to take time. There's no certainty that the present owners possess this attribute.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by oldebiscuit » 03 Jun 2022 21:30

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oldebiscuit I would imagine that this coming season, we will be playing with players from the academy mixed with the players that no other Club wanted to take off our hands, and maybe a few loan players.

We must be relegation favourites at the Bookies, surely, but then so be it. Drop down a league and find our level, and then attempt a rebuilding programme. It must be better to see us winning and hopefully comfortable in league 1 than getting whipped almost every week in the Championship with the aim of hopefully finishing 4th from bottom again.

And to those youngsters that think that this is a defeatist attitude, then I need to point out that in war sometimes you give up your ground and retreat, before launching your counter offensive which hopefully gains more ground than you previously surrendered.

Apart from Manchester City who can break all the rules on spending, and throw millions at legal fees defending any allegations, and the occasional Dark Horse (Forest this season) Team building takes a few seasons at least. Be patient.


I'm guessing from your user name you have been supporting for a long time. Surely therefore you can remember how dire it was playing in the lower leagues. Given our present circumstances the loss of income from relegation could well mean we wouldn't return for a long time. I think we have to realise how valuable it is to be in the championship.



Well said



First game in 1966 as it happens. And no matter what division you are in , once the game starts then that is irrelevant.
What concerns me with the modern game, (and your comments support my concerns), is that everyone seems to be more concerned about money rather than the football. Promotion from the Championship is always headlined with x amounts millions bonanza rather than the chance of mixing it with the best.

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