MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

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YorkshireRoyal99
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Re: Reid: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 11 Aug 2022 12:07

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Also tbf Bournemouth, Wolves, Leicester, Villa, Fulham and prob a few others have all managed to get promoted with gross financial mismanagement

We just bought shite players rather than good ones


Ultimately that as well that didn't help us.

What baffles me more is, how we were "gunning" for promotion and only had 1 season where we finished in the top half, the last one before our points deduction. I don't know why someone didn't realise after our back-to-back 20th placed finish, that it wasn't going to materialise. (We may have been too deep in the mire by then to feasibly get out of the mess).

The Dais didn’t throw silly money at us for very long.

When they took over we had just finished third. We then lost the playoff final on penalties. Promotion was a realistic aim. They spent a lot to shore us up. Signed replacements for Al Habsi, Kermorgant, and Williams, an upgrade on Gunter, and for some reason two new wingers.

The next year we only had one major signing, Baldock. McNulty for £1m was hardly breaking the bank.

The year after that we were under our first embargo but still signed Puscas and Joao. And since then the only fee we’ve paid was to make Ejaria’s loan permanent.

In their first year, all that spending “made sense” because we’d just come so close to getting promoted. After that, with hindsight Puscas and Baldock were bad signings, and we should have sold Moore when we had the chance, but we didn’t sign five players every summer for big fees. That first summer was a huge weight around us when nobody seemed to know what they were doing.

Blimey, when you put it like that… in the last five years we have only signed five players for fees. Admittedly for something like £16m…


It's not just the fees we were signing players for though, it was the wages as well. I believe in 2018 around 12 of our players were earning over £1m a year on wages, which is roughly around £20k per week, unsustainable.

We also paid a small fee for Araruna, but peanuts in comparison to the £16m spent on other players in fairness, but it was the massive wage bill that also needs to be taken into account season after season, when that was likely to be around £20m before the Dai's took over to nearly £40m post-takeover, that's another £15-20m a season extra spent on wages as well, which is really what wracked our losses up so much.

On the surface, it looked like promotion could be achievable, but anyone who understood the players we had would have known we were unlikely to replicate that the following season without major investment. You have also missed a lot of other signings, Aluko who was a record fee (before Puscas), Meyler, Edwards, Bodvarsson, Bacuna etc who will have cost us a fair few million and with some/most on some pretty good wages, we have spent a hell of a lot of money that the club didn't have.

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Re: Reid: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by URZZZZ » 11 Aug 2022 12:29

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YorkshireRoyal99
Hound
Also tbf Bournemouth, Wolves, Leicester, Villa, Fulham and prob a few others have all managed to get promoted with gross financial mismanagement

We just bought shite players rather than good ones


Ultimately that as well that didn't help us.

What baffles me more is, how we were "gunning" for promotion and only had 1 season where we finished in the top half, the last one before our points deduction. I don't know why someone didn't realise after our back-to-back 20th placed finish, that it wasn't going to materialise. (We may have been too deep in the mire by then to feasibly get out of the mess).

The Dais didn’t throw silly money at us for very long.

When they took over we had just finished third. We then lost the playoff final on penalties. Promotion was a realistic aim. They spent a lot to shore us up. Signed replacements for Al Habsi, Kermorgant, and Williams, an upgrade on Gunter, and for some reason two new wingers.

The next year we only had one major signing, Baldock. McNulty for £1m was hardly breaking the bank.

The year after that we were under our first embargo but still signed Puscas and Joao. And since then the only fee we’ve paid was to make Ejaria’s loan permanent.

In their first year, all that spending “made sense” because we’d just come so close to getting promoted. After that, with hindsight Puscas and Baldock were bad signings, and we should have sold Moore when we had the chance, but we didn’t sign five players every summer for big fees. That first summer was a huge weight around us when nobody seemed to know what they were doing.

Blimey, when you put it like that… in the last five years we have only signed five players for fees. Admittedly for something like £16m…


Surely the 2016 summer should have been the blueprint on how to operate successfully in the transfer market? Players to fulfil an obvious role in the squad, on low-ish wages without mega long contracts. Few duds in there but not so much an issue when they're not a financial drain (and considering the success of others)

These "replacements" involved a midfielder who couldn't really pass the ball in Edwards (in a style heavily geared towards passing) - an attacking midfielder who was asked to play on the wing - and as such heavily disrupted the balance of the team given the success of the wingers the season before - and a midfielder who was more interested in getting sent off each game (a bad attitude pre-warned by Villa fans). For Williams' faults - his attitude was spot on and I think we missed him more than most people envisaged

It may have just been one disastrously bad summer but the impact was widespread given how long we were stuck with them. Not sure if he was signed during the Dai era but how long we were stuck with Popa for example? No justification for it whatsoever

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Re: Reid: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 11 Aug 2022 12:43

URZZZZ
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YorkshireRoyal99
Ultimately that as well that didn't help us.

What baffles me more is, how we were "gunning" for promotion and only had 1 season where we finished in the top half, the last one before our points deduction. I don't know why someone didn't realise after our back-to-back 20th placed finish, that it wasn't going to materialise. (We may have been too deep in the mire by then to feasibly get out of the mess).

The Dais didn’t throw silly money at us for very long.

When they took over we had just finished third. We then lost the playoff final on penalties. Promotion was a realistic aim. They spent a lot to shore us up. Signed replacements for Al Habsi, Kermorgant, and Williams, an upgrade on Gunter, and for some reason two new wingers.

The next year we only had one major signing, Baldock. McNulty for £1m was hardly breaking the bank.

The year after that we were under our first embargo but still signed Puscas and Joao. And since then the only fee we’ve paid was to make Ejaria’s loan permanent.

In their first year, all that spending “made sense” because we’d just come so close to getting promoted. After that, with hindsight Puscas and Baldock were bad signings, and we should have sold Moore when we had the chance, but we didn’t sign five players every summer for big fees. That first summer was a huge weight around us when nobody seemed to know what they were doing.

Blimey, when you put it like that… in the last five years we have only signed five players for fees. Admittedly for something like £16m…


Surely the 2016 summer should have been the blueprint on how to operate successfully in the transfer market? Players to fulfil an obvious role in the squad, on low-ish wages without mega long contracts. Few duds in there but not so much an issue when they're not a financial drain (and considering the success of others)

These "replacements" involved a midfielder who couldn't really pass the ball in Edwards (in a style heavily geared towards passing) - an attacking midfielder who was asked to play on the wing - and as such heavily disrupted the balance of the team given the success of the wingers the season before - and a midfielder who was more interested in getting sent off each game (a bad attitude pre-warned by Villa fans). For Williams' faults - his attitude was spot on and I think we missed him more than most people envisaged

It may have just been one disastrously bad summer but the impact was widespread given how long we were stuck with them. Not sure if he was signed during the Dai era but how long we were stuck with Popa for example? No justification for it whatsoever


It's how we have been successful as a club, pragmatic spending, within our means. We have never really done well with high-valued signings of high profile signings, it's never been the clubs' forte. I can understand trying to shift strategies, but somebody must have been aware/warned about the consequences.

Popa was signed before the Dai's arrived, but took years to get off the books, with various loans in between, so I get the point. It was a very bad summer but it's obviously the knock on effect because we ended up with a lot of those players still on the books for a while, such as McNulty who we've only just released some 4 years later as the extreme, but Baldock and Aluko only left the season before last who we've been paying for basically all this time as well.

That summer was worse than the summer when we went completely rogue and spent £15m+ on Puscas, Joao and Ejaria, along with the wages of Rafael as well. At least there was a degree of success with all those signings, just the money being spent on them and the wages being the obvious stumbling block as they didn't get us (anywhere near) the level we were aspiring to be at.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Aug 2022 13:07

Hound For the last 3 seasons we’ve mainly been made up of loans and freebies tbh

Even when we came 8th we generally only had Joao, Moore and Ejaria who had cost us a fee

Don’t think it was so much the signings as the stupid wages on long contracts - we had the likes of McCleary, Yann, Gunter, Baldock, Obita on big contracts and bit part players whilst also offering big money to Swift, Moore, Kelly, Joao, Puscas etc. was just silly

Mainly that. But the best part of £20m committed to fees for Aluko, Joao and Puscas is alarmingly bad use of resources. Especially when two were signed immediately after a transfer embargo was lifted.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by paultheroyal » 11 Aug 2022 13:11

Past is now the past - clear mistakes have been made - this is the now. Club have made excellent progress over the summer.


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Snowflake Royal
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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Aug 2022 13:12

If only finance limits weren't built around the past 3 years and those issues weren't still having a clear affect.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Einstein agogo » 11 Aug 2022 13:21

As Coppell said , we have no chance or practically zero chance of winning so concentrate on the league
2022 Liverpool FC
2021 Manchester City
2020 Manchester City
2019 Manchester City
2018 Manchester City
2017 Manchester United
2016 Manchester City
2015 Chelsea FC
2014 Manchester City
2013 Swansea City *
2012 Liverpool FC
2011 Birmingham City *
2010 Manchester United
2009 Manchester United
2008 Tottenham Hotspur
2007 Chelsea FC
2006 Manchester United
2005 Chelsea FC
2004 Middlesbrough FC *
2003 Liverpool FC
2002 Blackburn Rovers *
2001 Liverpool FC
2000 Leicester City *
1999 Tottenham Hotspur
1998 Chelsea FC
1997 Leicester City *
1996 Aston Villa
1995 Liverpool FC
1994 Aston Villa
1993 Arsenal FC
1992 Manchester United
1991 Sheffield Wednesday *
1990 Nottingham Forest
1989 Nottingham Forest
1988 Luton Town *
1987 Arsenal FC
1986 Oxford United*
1985 Norwich City *
1984 Liverpool FC
1983 Liverpool FC
1982 Liverpool FC
1981 Liverpool FC
1980 Wolverhampton Wanderers
1979 Nottingham Forest
1978 Nottingham Forest
1977 Aston Villa
1976 Manchester City
1975 Aston Villa
1974 Wolverhampton Wanderers
1973 Tottenham Hotspur
1972 Stoke City
1971 Tottenham Hotspur
all the winners since I've BEEN ALIVE

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Nameless » 11 Aug 2022 13:37

Snowflake Royal If only finance limits weren't built around the past 3 years and those issues weren't still having a clear affect.


They are having an effect on every club.
They are arbitrary, but need to be adhered to.
We’re way past our ‘crisis’ point, and we survived bigger threats.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by South Coast Royal » 11 Aug 2022 13:47

Einstein agogo As Coppell said , we have no chance or practically zero chance of winning so concentrate on the league
2022 Liverpool FC
2021 Manchester City
2020 Manchester City
2019 Manchester City
2018 Manchester City
2017 Manchester United
2016 Manchester City
2015 Chelsea FC
2014 Manchester City
2013 Swansea City *
2012 Liverpool FC
2011 Birmingham City *
2010 Manchester United
2009 Manchester United
2008 Tottenham Hotspur
2007 Chelsea FC
2006 Manchester United
2005 Chelsea FC
2004 Middlesbrough FC *
2003 Liverpool FC
2002 Blackburn Rovers *
2001 Liverpool FC
2000 Leicester City *
1999 Tottenham Hotspur
1998 Chelsea FC
1997 Leicester City *
1996 Aston Villa
1995 Liverpool FC
1994 Aston Villa
1993 Arsenal FC
1992 Manchester United
1991 Sheffield Wednesday *
1990 Nottingham Forest
1989 Nottingham Forest
1988 Luton Town *
1987 Arsenal FC
1986 Oxford United*
1985 Norwich City *
1984 Liverpool FC
1983 Liverpool FC
1982 Liverpool FC
1981 Liverpool FC
1980 Wolverhampton Wanderers
1979 Nottingham Forest
1978 Nottingham Forest
1977 Aston Villa
1976 Manchester City
1975 Aston Villa
1974 Wolverhampton Wanderers
1973 Tottenham Hotspur
1972 Stoke City
1971 Tottenham Hotspur
all the winners since I've BEEN ALIVE


A bit higher than zero-just under 20% wins for clubs outside the Premier League which is higher than I thought.


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Snowflake Royal
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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Aug 2022 17:27

South Coast Royal
Einstein agogo As Coppell said , we have no chance or practically zero chance of winning so concentrate on the league
2022 Liverpool FC
2021 Manchester City
2020 Manchester City
2019 Manchester City
2018 Manchester City
2017 Manchester United
2016 Manchester City
2015 Chelsea FC
2014 Manchester City
2013 Swansea City *
2012 Liverpool FC
2011 Birmingham City *
2010 Manchester United
2009 Manchester United
2008 Tottenham Hotspur
2007 Chelsea FC
2006 Manchester United
2005 Chelsea FC
2004 Middlesbrough FC *
2003 Liverpool FC
2002 Blackburn Rovers *
2001 Liverpool FC
2000 Leicester City *
1999 Tottenham Hotspur
1998 Chelsea FC
1997 Leicester City *
1996 Aston Villa
1995 Liverpool FC
1994 Aston Villa
1993 Arsenal FC
1992 Manchester United
1991 Sheffield Wednesday *
1990 Nottingham Forest
1989 Nottingham Forest
1988 Luton Town *
1987 Arsenal FC
1986 Oxford United*
1985 Norwich City *
1984 Liverpool FC
1983 Liverpool FC
1982 Liverpool FC
1981 Liverpool FC
1980 Wolverhampton Wanderers
1979 Nottingham Forest
1978 Nottingham Forest
1977 Aston Villa
1976 Manchester City
1975 Aston Villa
1974 Wolverhampton Wanderers
1973 Tottenham Hotspur
1972 Stoke City
1971 Tottenham Hotspur
all the winners since I've BEEN ALIVE


A bit higher than zero-just under 20% wins for clubs outside the Premier League which is higher than I thought.

We've got no chance of winning the league either, perhaps we shouldn’t bother trying in that.

Why don't we just restrict the League and FA Cups to the PL top 10, afterall, no one else has a chance of winning them.

We can cut down on games too.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by Mr Angry » 12 Aug 2022 10:48

South Coast Royal
Einstein agogo As Coppell said , we have no chance or practically zero chance of winning so concentrate on the league
2022 Liverpool FC
2021 Manchester City
2020 Manchester City
2019 Manchester City
2018 Manchester City
2017 Manchester United
2016 Manchester City
2015 Chelsea FC
2014 Manchester City
2013 Swansea City *
2012 Liverpool FC
2011 Birmingham City *
2010 Manchester United
2009 Manchester United
2008 Tottenham Hotspur
2007 Chelsea FC
2006 Manchester United
2005 Chelsea FC
2004 Middlesbrough FC *
2003 Liverpool FC
2002 Blackburn Rovers *
2001 Liverpool FC
2000 Leicester City *
1999 Tottenham Hotspur
1998 Chelsea FC
1997 Leicester City *
1996 Aston Villa
1995 Liverpool FC
1994 Aston Villa
1993 Arsenal FC
1992 Manchester United
1991 Sheffield Wednesday *
1990 Nottingham Forest
1989 Nottingham Forest
1988 Luton Town *
1987 Arsenal FC
1986 Oxford United*
1985 Norwich City *
1984 Liverpool FC
1983 Liverpool FC
1982 Liverpool FC
1981 Liverpool FC
1980 Wolverhampton Wanderers
1979 Nottingham Forest
1978 Nottingham Forest
1977 Aston Villa
1976 Manchester City
1975 Aston Villa
1974 Wolverhampton Wanderers
1973 Tottenham Hotspur
1972 Stoke City
1971 Tottenham Hotspur
all the winners since I've BEEN ALIVE


A bit higher than zero-just under 20% wins for clubs outside the Premier League which is higher than I thought.


A lot of those teams who are now outside the Premier League were in the top flight at the time of their victories; Oxford in 1986 and Luton in 1988 (a few weeks after we beat them in the Simod Cup Final) being cases in point.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by South Coast Royal » 12 Aug 2022 13:26

Mr Angry
South Coast Royal
Einstein agogo As Coppell said , we have no chance or practically zero chance of winning so concentrate on the league
2022 Liverpool FC
2021 Manchester City
2020 Manchester City
2019 Manchester City
2018 Manchester City
2017 Manchester United
2016 Manchester City
2015 Chelsea FC
2014 Manchester City
2013 Swansea City *
2012 Liverpool FC
2011 Birmingham City *
2010 Manchester United
2009 Manchester United
2008 Tottenham Hotspur
2007 Chelsea FC
2006 Manchester United
2005 Chelsea FC
2004 Middlesbrough FC *
2003 Liverpool FC
2002 Blackburn Rovers *
2001 Liverpool FC
2000 Leicester City *
1999 Tottenham Hotspur
1998 Chelsea FC
1997 Leicester City *
1996 Aston Villa
1995 Liverpool FC
1994 Aston Villa
1993 Arsenal FC
1992 Manchester United
1991 Sheffield Wednesday *
1990 Nottingham Forest
1989 Nottingham Forest
1988 Luton Town *
1987 Arsenal FC
1986 Oxford United*
1985 Norwich City *
1984 Liverpool FC
1983 Liverpool FC
1982 Liverpool FC
1981 Liverpool FC
1980 Wolverhampton Wanderers
1979 Nottingham Forest
1978 Nottingham Forest
1977 Aston Villa
1976 Manchester City
1975 Aston Villa
1974 Wolverhampton Wanderers
1973 Tottenham Hotspur
1972 Stoke City
1971 Tottenham Hotspur
all the winners since I've BEEN ALIVE


A bit higher than zero-just under 20% wins for clubs outside the Premier League which is higher than I thought.


A lot of those teams who are now outside the Premier League were in the top flight at the time of their victories; Oxford in 1986 and Luton in 1988 (a few weeks after we beat them in the Simod Cup Final) being cases in point.


I took it all on face value but the point remains that chances of winning it are significantly higher than the zero suggested earlier.
Swindon were in Div 3 when they won it weren't they?

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Re: Reid: MATCHWATCH : Stevenage (h)

by SCIAG » 13 Aug 2022 14:41

YorkshireRoyal99
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Ultimately that as well that didn't help us.

What baffles me more is, how we were "gunning" for promotion and only had 1 season where we finished in the top half, the last one before our points deduction. I don't know why someone didn't realise after our back-to-back 20th placed finish, that it wasn't going to materialise. (We may have been too deep in the mire by then to feasibly get out of the mess).

The Dais didn’t throw silly money at us for very long.

When they took over we had just finished third. We then lost the playoff final on penalties. Promotion was a realistic aim. They spent a lot to shore us up. Signed replacements for Al Habsi, Kermorgant, and Williams, an upgrade on Gunter, and for some reason two new wingers.

The next year we only had one major signing, Baldock. McNulty for £1m was hardly breaking the bank.

The year after that we were under our first embargo but still signed Puscas and Joao. And since then the only fee we’ve paid was to make Ejaria’s loan permanent.

In their first year, all that spending “made sense” because we’d just come so close to getting promoted. After that, with hindsight Puscas and Baldock were bad signings, and we should have sold Moore when we had the chance, but we didn’t sign five players every summer for big fees. That first summer was a huge weight around us when nobody seemed to know what they were doing.

Blimey, when you put it like that… in the last five years we have only signed five players for fees. Admittedly for something like £16m…


It's not just the fees we were signing players for though, it was the wages as well. I believe in 2018 around 12 of our players were earning over £1m a year on wages, which is roughly around £20k per week, unsustainable.

We also paid a small fee for Araruna, but peanuts in comparison to the £16m spent on other players in fairness, but it was the massive wage bill that also needs to be taken into account season after season, when that was likely to be around £20m before the Dai's took over to nearly £40m post-takeover, that's another £15-20m a season extra spent on wages as well, which is really what wracked our losses up so much.

On the surface, it looked like promotion could be achievable, but anyone who understood the players we had would have known we were unlikely to replicate that the following season without major investment. You have also missed a lot of other signings, Aluko who was a record fee (before Puscas), Meyler, Edwards, Bodvarsson, Bacuna etc who will have cost us a fair few million and with some/most on some pretty good wages, we have spent a hell of a lot of money that the club didn't have.

I included Aluko, Edwards, Bacuna and Bodvarsson, and I think Meyler was a free transfer.

Yes wages were also an issue, but my point (that they haven’t “kept trying to buy promotion”) stands there as well - those silly contracts were handed out in their first year and a bit in charge.


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