Let’s give Dai some credit

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Millsy » 22 Aug 2022 10:16

Nameless
Millsy Isn't our academy no longer cat1?

The one thing we spent years of sacrifice not investing in the squad but investing there instead and now it's no longer a top academy?


Don’t think we’ve invested in the Academy at the expense of the first team. Work out what we have made from sales of Academy players and savings as a result of Academy players playing in the first team….
Spending on the Academy is excluded from FFP. Calculations as well.
And we’ll be Cat 1 again next season anyway.


Oh will we? That's cool then. Why has it been taken away from us if we're guaranteed to get it back next season anyway?

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Nameless » 22 Aug 2022 10:38

Millsy
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Millsy Isn't our academy no longer cat1?

The one thing we spent years of sacrifice not investing in the squad but investing there instead and now it's no longer a top academy?


Don’t think we’ve invested in the Academy at the expense of the first team. Work out what we have made from sales of Academy players and savings as a result of Academy players playing in the first team….
Spending on the Academy is excluded from FFP. Calculations as well.
And we’ll be Cat 1 again next season anyway.


Oh will we? That's cool then. Why has it been taken away from us if we're guaranteed to get it back next season anyway?


It’s like an MOT. You get an audit, you fail the audit but you get a list of things you were not up to scratch on. You put them right and then get reaudited. Bowen has said that they have sorted (or are sorting) the problem areas.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Millsy » 22 Aug 2022 10:42

Nameless
Millsy
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Don’t think we’ve invested in the Academy at the expense of the first team. Work out what we have made from sales of Academy players and savings as a result of Academy players playing in the first team….
Spending on the Academy is excluded from FFP. Calculations as well.
And we’ll be Cat 1 again next season anyway.


Oh will we? That's cool then. Why has it been taken away from us if we're guaranteed to get it back next season anyway?


It’s like an MOT. You get an audit, you fail the audit but you get a list of things you were not up to scratch on. You put them right and then get reaudited. Bowen has said that they have sorted (or are sorting) the problem areas.


Ok.

But not keeping on top of basic requirements is still a cockup in the context of sudden love for Dai.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Nameless » 22 Aug 2022 11:38

Millsy
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Oh will we? That's cool then. Why has it been taken away from us if we're guaranteed to get it back next season anyway?


It’s like an MOT. You get an audit, you fail the audit but you get a list of things you were not up to scratch on. You put them right and then get reaudited. Bowen has said that they have sorted (or are sorting) the problem areas.


Ok.

But not keeping on top of basic requirements is still a cockup in the context of sudden love for Dai.


I don’t know how ‘basic’ the requirement should were that we failed on. Bowen did say that there are loads of things you have to do and a lot of the stuff we failed on was about timing, he used an example that as of the audit we had no sports psychologist for the U15’s. We knew that, we were trying to recruit but we didn’t have one. I have no idea how accurate that example is but certainly the impression he gave was it was a short term eye off the ball situation.
Someone like PTR might have a better idea of the issue so thiugh, I ‘m just piecing bits together I’ve heard and don’t have any Academy contacts.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Millsy » 22 Aug 2022 11:46

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It’s like an MOT. You get an audit, you fail the audit but you get a list of things you were not up to scratch on. You put them right and then get reaudited. Bowen has said that they have sorted (or are sorting) the problem areas.


Ok.

But not keeping on top of basic requirements is still a cockup in the context of sudden love for Dai.


I don’t know how ‘basic’ the requirement should were that we failed on. Bowen did say that there are loads of things you have to do and a lot of the stuff we failed on was about timing, he used an example that as of the audit we had no sports psychologist for the U15’s. We knew that, we were trying to recruit but we didn’t have one. I have no idea how accurate that example is but certainly the impression he gave was it was a short term eye off the ball situation.
Someone like PTR might have a better idea of the issue so thiugh, I ‘m just piecing bits together I’ve heard and don’t have any Academy contacts.


Thanks, good info.

What I mean is these requirements are generally the absolute bread and butter of such organisations, beyond basic. The whole thrust of any business affected by such 'MOTs' (be it Offsted for schools, CQC for care homes, HMOs for landlords etc etc) is rigorous systems in place, weekly checks, solid governance, risk registers etc. Like, it's the absolute core of what these businesses do. First and foremost make sure requirements are constantly in order and everything else is gravy almost.

So after all the work JM et al put into setting up the academy, to somehow let it slip even if 'only for a year' to me shows a huge f**kup. I'd be sacking business managers if it happened to me. But then we know that the club was a total shambles so it's no surprise. What is a surprise is anyone giving credit to Dai in my opinion after the metaf*ckups on all levels almost destroying the club and undoing everything good about it in the last few years, even if we have brought Bowen back and are trying to be less sh*t.


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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by From Despair To Where? » 22 Aug 2022 12:05

I thought that part of the problem was shoving staff on furlough during lockdown, some of whom got jobs elsewhere in the meantime which meant we were still in the process of recruiting when the audit occurred.

I've heard talk of issues at younger age groups but I'm not sure that's relevant to Cat 1 status.

Take it on the chin and do what we can to make it right.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by paultheroyal » 22 Aug 2022 12:25

Nameless
Millsy
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It’s like an MOT. You get an audit, you fail the audit but you get a list of things you were not up to scratch on. You put them right and then get reaudited. Bowen has said that they have sorted (or are sorting) the problem areas.


Ok.

But not keeping on top of basic requirements is still a cockup in the context of sudden love for Dai.


I don’t know how ‘basic’ the requirement should were that we failed on. Bowen did say that there are loads of things you have to do and a lot of the stuff we failed on was about timing, he used an example that as of the audit we had no sports psychologist for the U15’s. We knew that, we were trying to recruit but we didn’t have one. I have no idea how accurate that example is but certainly the impression he gave was it was a short term eye off the ball situation.
Someone like PTR might have a better idea of the issue so though, I ‘m just piecing bits together I’ve heard and don’t have any Academy contacts.




Basically that in a nutshell. They just let it slide, caught out with audit and way to many cracks to defend. There were so many vacant posts and key people in higher positions not around to make decisions or fill vacant posts. Coupled with a tangled mess of an u9s to U15s academy setup was the killer blow. A survey for the parents did not make good reading.

The real insult is that this academy is now on a par with QPR. An academy who train and play out of a secondary school, yep, thats how bad it got. Kids having to be escorted out of changing room, to cross a busy road to play matches against the likes of Luton, Sutton etc etc. Our facilities are world class and have been pretty much leaning up against that view whilst alot was crumbling around them. It is an easy fix and this will only be a blip but the younger age group has been shambolic for awhile..... unless of course that is the plan and we are ultimately following another model ie Brentford.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by 3points » 22 Aug 2022 13:04

Hasn't the club also said that some of it was timing issues relating to the move / transition from Hogwood to Bearwood as well?

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Brogue » 20 Sep 2022 09:18

Dai went to the wigan game and met up with fans in the pub after :shock:


https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news ... ppearance/


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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Forbury Lion » 20 Sep 2022 10:38

I actually feel a connection with the club again, not because we're doing well but because the communication side of things has improved.

Back in "the old days" under Sir John we had a local newspaper with Reading FC dominating the sports pages, we also had Meridian TV segregated into two area with Reading FC dominating the sports section of the Thames Valley show, You couldn't help but pick up on the latest news and views, plus dare I say it the official website and Hobnob Anyone were award winning sites.

Now, the Reading FC mobile app seems to be where it's at - I got an alert that Andy Carrol had signed before I saw it on any website, I feel I know who some of the players are and this season I can almost read the shirt numbers again (red on blue doesn't work too well for me).

I don't know what has changed - maybe it is me, maybe I've got more interest and more awareness of Reading in the news now I can see the players giving 100% and playing better?

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by TheRoyalAscot » 20 Sep 2022 11:21

Agreed credit is due. The results help, but everything about the club is better this season. I really hope we can get back to a club that is sustainable, well run on and off the pitch, whilst developing good home grown players or giving others the opportunity when they've been overlooked elsewhere.

Inevitably we'll need to sell players for big bucks when the time is right, but that is part of being a club our size. The money we should have got for the likes of Loader, Richards, Swift, Moore (at the time) is criminal and not cashing in on these players has been a big part of our problem.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Stranded » 20 Sep 2022 11:39

He deserves credit for seemingly making the right choices over the past few months and just letting those he has employed get on with it. Signs are positive but given we got into our current mess under his watch then I'm a little wary to praise too much.

Key for me will be what happens come 1st July 2023, assuming we are, as looks likely, still a Championship club. Hopefully, we'll see the club continue on a more balanced recruitment approach, finding value for the most part in both loans and finding gems in lower divisions/other leagues. I'd have no issues with us paying the odd larger fee, if it makes sense to the plan but again only if it is a fee that is likely to become a profit later.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Zip » 20 Sep 2022 12:00

One thing I hope for is bigger attendances. We may or may not be in a false third position but gates are still desperately low.


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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Stranded » 20 Sep 2022 12:51

Zip One thing I hope for is bigger attendances. We may or may not be in a false third position but gates are still desperately low.


That just won't happen for a little while - people need a reason to come back especially at the moment when people need to make a lot of choices over what they spend their money on.

If we get through to the WC and are still in or around the play-offs whilst getting results at home then after the WC, you may well see an uptick in numbers esp. if England do well.

Home games before the break are Huddersfield, Norwich, WBA, Bristol C & Preston - if we can go W3 D1 L1 or something similar then people will start to notice more esp if we score a few goals along the way but if we only win 1 or 2, people will get the feeling that it's going to be a slog at home again.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Brogue » 20 Sep 2022 12:57

attendances are down across the country not just at Reading. I wouldn't read too much into it.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by TheRoyalAscot » 20 Sep 2022 13:31

Brogue attendances are down across the country not just at Reading. I wouldn't read too much into it.


Ours have been dwindling for a good few years though. Unsurprising given our performance, so something we need to reverse and definitely worth reading into.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by From Despair To Where? » 20 Sep 2022 13:47

Stranded He deserves credit for seemingly making the right choices over the past few months and just letting those he has employed get on with it. Signs are positive but given we got into our current mess under his watch then I'm a little wary to praise too much.


Key for me will be what happens come 1st July 2023, assuming we are, as looks likely, still a Championship club. Hopefully, we'll see the club continue on a more balanced recruitment approach, finding value for the most part in both loans and finding gems in lower divisions/other leagues. I'd have no issues with us paying the odd larger fee, if it makes sense to the plan but again only if it is a fee that is likely to become a profit later.


That's is it in a nutshell for me. He got us into the situation and it took intervention by the governing body to change things.

For me, the issue isn't even the amount of money spent, it's the decimation of the scouting network which has led to shite recruitment. The DoF/CE position comes into this when you have a non football person at the top directing transfer policy. So you have Gourlay signing "name" players on big contracts rather than someone like Bowen who has more of an insight into the inherent value of a signing.

I think Ince is quite important as well as he seems to have generated a good spirit within the squad. He doesn't come across as a hairdryer type manager but at the same time, he doesn't seem to pull any punches and I think the players respond to that.

The fact that we are able to attract players like Rahman and Carroll back to the club and they talk about the club in a positive way suggests that we are getting some of the fundamentals right.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Brogue » 20 Sep 2022 14:11

Was gourlay dai’s fault? I mean the man had a excellent cv on paper he seems like an excellent appointment we had no idea he was fcuking mental. I think it’s harsh to criticise him for that.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by From Despair To Where? » 20 Sep 2022 16:45

He sanctioned some absolutely insane deals that anyone with a modecum of football experience would have said "Hang on a minute....". We had fcuk all scouting in place. He was the one who sold the idea of paying £4.5m or whatever for Aluko and paying him £25k a week. It was Dai who put Gourlay in the position to make those decisions so he does shoulder some of the responsibility.

He had purely business roles at United and Chelsea and he came from Nike before that. He may have had a sound business background but he knew fcuk all about players. I reckon agents danced rings round him. Hammond or Bowen would have told them to fcuk off and come back with a sensible deal.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 20 Sep 2022 20:53

Kia Joorabchian fits into that there though, not just Gourlay, Dai was responsible for giving these people the power he did and he trusted them and, most of the time, it failed. The ridiculous amounts of spending, the reluctance to sell players for good deals and offering players massively inflated contracts for players that either weren't suited to the league especially (Puscas) or players that just weren't that good and didn't justify what they earned (Aluko, Baldock, Moore etc).

As mentioned, July-September 2023 is an important period for me, assuming we are still a Championship club. Hopefully a successful campaign this time with our current recruitment strategy will show the people in power that throwing money at flashy objects isn't the solution, it's a careful scheme of buying players that fit a particular style and looking to build a proper culture that Ince talks about.

Agree with Stranded, if we do go and spend a fair sum of money on players, such as Loum at the end of this season for example, then I'd be happy considering it's a good deal and/or we get resale value for the player. We certainly need to go back to what made the club successful, prudent spending, good deals and selling players for good money and replacing accordingly. With the training ground, potential stadium renovation still in the works etc, we are better placed as a club to attract better players and build a stronger squad.

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