PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Nov 2022 18:56

YorkshireRoyal99 It was poor defending, even after hindsight. Ched Evans isn't the most prolific goalscorer ever, but he's a Championship footballer with previous International experience, he can score a goal (of quality) from those areas and I'd imagine, in a lot of circumstances, if you allow a Championship CF to enter your box unchallenged, you're asking for trouble.

I do agree with P.Ince, it's tough to be asking the same players to be playing every few days with minimal changes at this level and at this intensity, but the goals we conceded on Friday were so weak and easy that it does become less of an excuse. Robbie Brady has quality with his delivery, now maybe if legs are tiring some you aren't going to be sprinting out but we were 50 minutes into the game and he had a good couple of seconds in the second phase and we didn't get anywhere near close enough. The header was good, fair play, still soft but a good header and the 2nd goal was a similar principle, not engaging the man on the ball enough. That wasn't just applicable to Friday, Swansea away we failed to engage the players with the ball enough.

Sometimes I think we are "too concerned" on keeping shape rather than doing the basics of locking on the man with the ball and have players recovering in behind restricting space.

Has he considered not doing that? Given it's him doing the asking...

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 07 Nov 2022 19:02

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YorkshireRoyal99 It was poor defending, even after hindsight. Ched Evans isn't the most prolific goalscorer ever, but he's a Championship footballer with previous International experience, he can score a goal (of quality) from those areas and I'd imagine, in a lot of circumstances, if you allow a Championship CF to enter your box unchallenged, you're asking for trouble.

I do agree with P.Ince, it's tough to be asking the same players to be playing every few days with minimal changes at this level and at this intensity, but the goals we conceded on Friday were so weak and easy that it does become less of an excuse. Robbie Brady has quality with his delivery, now maybe if legs are tiring some you aren't going to be sprinting out but we were 50 minutes into the game and he had a good couple of seconds in the second phase and we didn't get anywhere near close enough. The header was good, fair play, still soft but a good header and the 2nd goal was a similar principle, not engaging the man on the ball enough. That wasn't just applicable to Friday, Swansea away we failed to engage the players with the ball enough.

Sometimes I think we are "too concerned" on keeping shape rather than doing the basics of locking on the man with the ball and have players recovering in behind restricting space.

Has he considered not doing that? Given it's him doing the asking...


I don't doubt he has, but what do you do? Holmes and McIntyre (particular the latter) didn't seem 100%, so what does he do in that scenario? Sarr, Hutchinson, Moore and Dann are all injured, so what do we do next? Put Mbengue in? Maybe but he's also played a lot of football recently, change shape? Yeah possibly.

I'm not disagreeing, but there is clearly a reason why we are doing what we are doing, even though sometimes it looks daft from the fans looking in. Yeah, why play with 3 CB's when we don't have 3 first team CB's available and two of those maybe weren't 100%? But there is a reason we did that, for better or for worse. That might be what the manager, and indeed the players, have bought in to.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Nov 2022 19:05

YorkshireRoyal99
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YorkshireRoyal99 It was poor defending, even after hindsight. Ched Evans isn't the most prolific goalscorer ever, but he's a Championship footballer with previous International experience, he can score a goal (of quality) from those areas and I'd imagine, in a lot of circumstances, if you allow a Championship CF to enter your box unchallenged, you're asking for trouble.

I do agree with P.Ince, it's tough to be asking the same players to be playing every few days with minimal changes at this level and at this intensity, but the goals we conceded on Friday were so weak and easy that it does become less of an excuse. Robbie Brady has quality with his delivery, now maybe if legs are tiring some you aren't going to be sprinting out but we were 50 minutes into the game and he had a good couple of seconds in the second phase and we didn't get anywhere near close enough. The header was good, fair play, still soft but a good header and the 2nd goal was a similar principle, not engaging the man on the ball enough. That wasn't just applicable to Friday, Swansea away we failed to engage the players with the ball enough.

Sometimes I think we are "too concerned" on keeping shape rather than doing the basics of locking on the man with the ball and have players recovering in behind restricting space.

Has he considered not doing that? Given it's him doing the asking...


I don't doubt he has, but what do you do? Holmes and McIntyre (particular the latter) didn't seem 100%, so what does he do in that scenario? Sarr, Hutchinson, Moore and Dann are all injured, so what do we do next? Put Mbengue in? Maybe but he's also played a lot of football recently, change shape? Yeah possibly.

I'm not disagreeing, but there is clearly a reason why we are doing what we are doing, even though sometimes it looks daft from the fans looking in. Yeah, why play with 3 CB's when we don't have 3 first team CB's available and two of those maybe weren't 100%? But there is a reason we did that, for better or for worse. That might be what the manager, and indeed the players, have bought in to.

Stop playing 3 centrebacks. Use his Academy players like Abbey. Use Abrefa. It's not rocket science

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 07 Nov 2022 19:35

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Snowflake Royal Has he considered not doing that? Given it's him doing the asking...


I don't doubt he has, but what do you do? Holmes and McIntyre (particular the latter) didn't seem 100%, so what does he do in that scenario? Sarr, Hutchinson, Moore and Dann are all injured, so what do we do next? Put Mbengue in? Maybe but he's also played a lot of football recently, change shape? Yeah possibly.

I'm not disagreeing, but there is clearly a reason why we are doing what we are doing, even though sometimes it looks daft from the fans looking in. Yeah, why play with 3 CB's when we don't have 3 first team CB's available and two of those maybe weren't 100%? But there is a reason we did that, for better or for worse. That might be what the manager, and indeed the players, have bought in to.

Stop playing 3 centrebacks. Use his Academy players like Abbey. Use Abrefa. It's not rocket science


But it's obviously not that easy otherwise we would be doing it. You can't just throw kids in to teams because they might be ready in a couple more years time. I'm all for giving the academy a chance, but it's when they are ready to. We've seen with Southwood last year that throwing an academy product not good enough at this level can do.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Hound » 07 Nov 2022 19:43

You’d prob still take McIntyre over an untried like Abbey. Prob over Mbengue as well, but that could be debated I think

He’s a good player but just wish he’d move to the next level as Holmes seems to have done. He’s clearly behind him now


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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Royal_jimmy » 07 Nov 2022 22:39

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Snowflake Royal Has he considered not doing that? Given it's him doing the asking...


I don't doubt he has, but what do you do? Holmes and McIntyre (particular the latter) didn't seem 100%, so what does he do in that scenario? Sarr, Hutchinson, Moore and Dann are all injured, so what do we do next? Put Mbengue in? Maybe but he's also played a lot of football recently, change shape? Yeah possibly.

I'm not disagreeing, but there is clearly a reason why we are doing what we are doing, even though sometimes it looks daft from the fans looking in. Yeah, why play with 3 CB's when we don't have 3 first team CB's available and two of those maybe weren't 100%? But there is a reason we did that, for better or for worse. That might be what the manager, and indeed the players, have bought in to.

Stop playing 3 centrebacks. Use his Academy players like Abbey. Use Abrefa. It's not rocket science


I'm cautious about throwing academy boys in but I thought Abrefa looked up to it at this level whenever he's played. Whys he not featured? He deserves to be an understudy to Yiadom in defence and part of the squad. Can also play at centre back too

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Nov 2022 08:08

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I don't doubt he has, but what do you do? Holmes and McIntyre (particular the latter) didn't seem 100%, so what does he do in that scenario? Sarr, Hutchinson, Moore and Dann are all injured, so what do we do next? Put Mbengue in? Maybe but he's also played a lot of football recently, change shape? Yeah possibly.

I'm not disagreeing, but there is clearly a reason why we are doing what we are doing, even though sometimes it looks daft from the fans looking in. Yeah, why play with 3 CB's when we don't have 3 first team CB's available and two of those maybe weren't 100%? But there is a reason we did that, for better or for worse. That might be what the manager, and indeed the players, have bought in to.

Stop playing 3 centrebacks. Use his Academy players like Abbey. Use Abrefa. It's not rocket science


But it's obviously not that easy otherwise we would be doing it. You can't just throw kids in to teams because they might be ready in a couple more years time. I'm all for giving the academy a chance, but it's when they are ready to. We've seen with Southwood last year that throwing an academy product not good enough at this level can do.

How's the current approach going?

Oh yes, 1 win in 8 and 5 defeats.

It IS that easy. The fact none of our managers ever do it doesn’t mean it isn’t.

We used Ehib, Camara, Clarke, Abrefa, Clarke, Stickland etc etc when we had no choice and it wasn't anywhere near a disaster. Southwood started excellently. These players are all getting time on the bench and most have started games. It's not like they aren’t already involved in the first team squad.

And if Ince used his bench properly they'd also have had more sub appearances to actually assess their ability in match rather than write them off assuming they aren’t ready.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 08 Nov 2022 09:00

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Snowflake Royal Stop playing 3 centrebacks. Use his Academy players like Abbey. Use Abrefa. It's not rocket science


But it's obviously not that easy otherwise we would be doing it. You can't just throw kids in to teams because they might be ready in a couple more years time. I'm all for giving the academy a chance, but it's when they are ready to. We've seen with Southwood last year that throwing an academy product not good enough at this level can do.

How's the current approach going?

Oh yes, 1 win in 8 and 5 defeats.

It IS that easy. The fact none of our managers ever do it doesn’t mean it isn’t.

We used Ehib, Camara, Clarke, Abrefa, Clarke, Stickland etc etc when we had no choice and it wasn't anywhere near a disaster. Southwood started excellently. These players are all getting time on the bench and most have started games. It's not like they aren’t already involved in the first team squad.

And if Ince used his bench properly they'd also have had more sub appearances to actually assess their ability in match rather than write them off assuming they aren’t ready.


Whilst also being top half in the league? I think the fact none of our managers ever do it would be a pretty good suggestion it's very much not that easy, otherwise they would be doing it wouldn't they obviously.

It wasn't anywhere near a disaster, no, I'm not suggesting it would be. I don't disagree that they should get used more than they probably do, especially if they are on the bench and our only options, but ultimately there is a reason that we don't. Management see these young lads in training every day and in U23 games and they still aren't ready to make the step up yet, when they are ready is when we should. He's assessing their ability everyday in training, U23 matches etc and they still aren't deemed good enough, yet.

We've given plenty of players over the last season and a bit a chance, how many have honestly been ready for more first team action? Abrefa maybe, Clarke did ok in his short cameo appearances, a small sample to work off, Abbey has done ok in even less time etc. Maybe we should use them more than we do, but we don't get to see these players everyday, whereas staff do.

Southwood had 6 very good games and was swiftly replaced in January, Jahmari Clarke hit 2 goals at Birmingham, did very little before and since that moment. These youngsters are delivering in moments, not consistently. Southwood is now on loan at a mid-table L1 side, probably his level to help develop and Clarke at National League Woking. You can't be expecting to be throwing players that are only playing at those types of levels to be doing well here, it's not going to work.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by URZZZZZZZZ » 08 Nov 2022 09:20

I think we also need to let the people who see the players day in day out make the decisions too, not rely on Snowflake Royal off of the internet.


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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Nov 2022 09:37

Yep we should definitely rely on the judgement of the managers who have completely failed and not question them on this discussion board.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 08 Nov 2022 09:42

But rely on your biased judgement where we don't watch these players play on a daily basis? Also, harsh to say that P.Ince has failed, would say in the main he's actually been pretty successful, we are just having a tough time of it at the moment, understandably so to some extent.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by paultheroyal » 08 Nov 2022 09:48

Reality check needed by a few on here.

We have far more points than we ever thought possible at start of season. I think the decent start has given a number of people false hope. This year its all about getting to 52 points. Thats harder than the objective at the start of the season when benchmark was around 44 points but its going to need a record tally to stay up this year. 9 wins from remaining games has to be the sole target. I expect us to push on after the world cup particularly with Sarr and Hutchinson back in the fold which will make a massive difference to the team.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Hound » 08 Nov 2022 10:04

URZZZZZZZZ I think we also need to let the people who see the players day in day out make the decisions too, not rely on Snowflake Royal off of the internet.


Where’s the fun in that?

Of course we all know better than the highly qualified trained coaches who have been involved in the game for 45 years and see the players every day :)


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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by tidus_mi2 » 08 Nov 2022 10:10

I think we were always going to have tough spells so having what should be half the required point tally ahead of schedule was welcome, I'll be worried if we lose the next two though as we'll be in a right slump at that point, Hull should be there for the taking, especially with their top scorer out.

Don't think Ince helps himself by sticking with a 5-3-2 when we barely have the defenders for it now.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 08 Nov 2022 10:43

tidus_mi2 I think we were always going to have tough spells so having what should be half the required point tally ahead of schedule was welcome, I'll be worried if we lose the next two though as we'll be in a right slump at that point, Hull should be there for the taking, especially with their top scorer out.

Don't think Ince helps himself by sticking with a 5-3-2 when we barely have the defenders for it now.


Yeah, we definitely need to be targeting 3 points away at Hull for sure, just to keep us ticking over and to end this period of poor form and go into the WC break in better shape.

I can see why Ince is sticking with what we have played all season, just read up on Hassenhuttl about how one of his detriment's was a shift in system at Southampton and that lack of consistency translated into results on the pitch. So, for consistencies sake and believing in what we do, I can see why we persist with it. Having said that, if you're struggling for available defenders, you have to adapt.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Coppells Lost Coat » 08 Nov 2022 11:48

Last couple of games had a feel of Pauno towards the end, tactically wrong confused patterns of play, disjointed. But it stops there, its just a couple of games in a snapshot of the season so far. Take a few steps back and look at Ince since August and we are streets ahead.

Only concern is i feel his communication is not the best when it comes to attacking. looks like he is unsure on how to get the best out of 4 strikers and who is the best pairing - Its Meite and Joao
Defending I think he is quite astute. He has learned the siege mentality is not sitting on your 18 yard line and punting it long. Lets face it we seconds away from an away point at Burnley - and we were denied a last min stone wall pen. If that was given this whole thread would not be relevant.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by blythspartan » 08 Nov 2022 11:56

paultheroyal Reality check needed by a few on here.

We have far more points than we ever thought possible at start of season. I think the decent start has given a number of people false hope. This year its all about getting to 52 points. Thats harder than the objective at the start of the season when benchmark was around 44 points but its going to need a record tally to stay up this year. 9 wins from remaining games has to be the sole target. I expect us to push on after the world cup particularly with Sarr and Hutchinson back in the fold which will make a massive difference to the team.


I agree with most of this. We’re doing much better than I had hoped and for me the football and commitment of the players has been better than the dross of recent years.

I am still expecting a relegation battle and can see a side getting relegated with 54 points again like Peterborough did a few years back. If back in July someone had offered me being above the relegation places prior to the World Cup break I’d have bitten their hand off.

We should have players back from injury in December and we can review the squad again in January and hopefully add 1 or 2 players, if required.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Nov 2022 12:07

YorkshireRoyal99 But rely on your biased judgement where we don't watch these players play on a daily basis? Also, harsh to say that P.Ince has failed, would say in the main he's actually been pretty successful, we are just having a tough time of it at the moment, understandably so to some extent.

No discuss on merits rather than appeal to authority. Many of these players have already featured in the first team and performed well. I'm not suggesting throwing an unknown 15 year old in at the deep end.

I didn't say Ince has failed, I said his predecessors had.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 08 Nov 2022 12:10

Coppells Lost Coat Last couple of games had a feel of Pauno towards the end, tactically wrong confused patterns of play, disjointed. But it stops there, its just a couple of games in a snapshot of the season so far. Take a few steps back and look at Ince since August and we are streets ahead.

Only concern is i feel his communication is not the best when it comes to attacking. looks like he is unsure on how to get the best out of 4 strikers and who is the best pairing - Its Meite and Joao
Defending I think he is quite astute. He has learned the siege mentality is not sitting on your 18 yard line and punting it long. Lets face it we seconds away from an away point at Burnley - and we were denied a last min stone wall pen. If that was given this whole thread would not be relevant.


Agree here and I think the difficulty in getting a fine tune out of these players is because we haven't specifically targeted them, they were just available for our budget. Most other clubs in the division have a much larger pool of players they can go for, whereas we were relying on free agents and loans only, obviously very restricting.

There are certain aspects which I feel it's difficult to judge how good/not good P.Ince actually is.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Loafer » 08 Nov 2022 12:15

have 19 people so far for my wc sweepstakers, please put your name down otherwise some people will have 2 teams! Luminaries such as TBM, WInston, Green and the great overlord himself HOBNOB have joined in so far.

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