Is Coppell's loyalty to players now a major concern?

[clauski]

Much as I like the guy and what he has done for us I am now truly concerned that, by his own admission, Coppell can be too loyal to players. It shows in his transfer dealings (buying trusted players who have played for him before or delaying in buying anyone at all) and team selections (rarely dropping players even if not in form). We saw the consequences last year - without a doubt everyone else bought and improved whilst we were too loyal to our existing squad and we then didn't make changes when players weren't performing. This year looks to be the same and that we haven't learned from our mistakes. The question is can Steve?

2/8/00 (after leaving Palace) ""I would have been too loyal to the players who worked so hard for me last year. It needs a cold, clinical eye."

5/1/08 "I am loyal to the players who have done well to me - possibly too loyal on occasion"

29/2/08 "Maybe the accusation I may make against myself is that I have been too loyal to some players"

Fans Forum 8/5/08 "I have perhaps been too loyal at times… I have an affection for my players and there is a bond.I made the same mistake at Palace. We got to 3rd in the top flight and a Cup Final and then got relegated. Alan Smith made 2 or 3 changes that I would not have done and they went up as Champions"

11/5/08 "On reflection I've maybe been too loyal to some of these players. And maybe a fresh pair of eyes would be able to make more objective decisions than I can"

Loyalty is a great personality trait and I admire him for it, but in my view Coppell needs to listen to his own advice to be objective and act now to change it before it's too late.

[floyd__streete]

Of course it is a concern. And the sad irony is that his beloved players don't show the same loyalty to him - cya Little, cheers Kitson.

I genuinely think that Coppell is scared of big name players, hence why he prefers the unkown quantity or the honest battler from Brentford. It is to his credit as a coach that he can mould these people into a good side, but once an all-conquering squad falls apart can he arrest the slump? The slide back into obscurity at Reading is similar in some ways to the Palace side he took down in 92/93; the likes of Wright and Bright - Coppell's own inspired signings - had left and were (presumably) never replaced properly.

[joe999]

Yes, its a big concern

I dont know whos not spending the money on fresh, quality players, him or Mr. Mad, but whoever it is is majorly at fault.

[retro royal]

Must agree, the squad just hasn't moved on since Coppells original appointment, Still most the team are Pardew's players, if im correct after a load of beer, Hahnemann, Shorey, Murty(ok burns bought him), Harper, Convey (scouted by pardew).

Maybe Coppell has improved the side with the likes of Matejosky, Bikey, Doyle, Hunt, Sonko, Long compared with this side that played against Millwall 2003/2004 season :

Hahnemann, Murty, Ingimarsson, Newman, Shorey, Hughes, Sidwell, Harper (Watson 81), Salako (Henderson 79), Goater (Savage 74), Forster. Subs not used: Mackie, Young.

At the time of the game we were 6th in the championship, so basically what i started is bull carp and i shouldnt access this web site whilst beer-ed up, sorry guys

Another edit whilst not in control of fingers, im pi ss ed off with our chairman, it's pocket money for you, just show some ambition our fans on average spend 4% of their average income, just for on ticket.

4% of your money is just about £2m, So come on John sort it out

[joe999]

and Fozzy was miles better then Doyle or Kitson or Lita or Long

What a player

[From Despair To Where?]

and Fozzy was miles better then Doyle or Kitson or Lita or Long

What a player

Kitson is a much, much better all round player than Forster ever was. Much better team player and a better strike rate, achieved at a consistantly higher level as well. Arguably the same can be said about Doyle too.

[Archie's penalty]

and Fozzy was miles better then Doyle or Kitson or Lita or Long

What a player

Kitson is a much, much better all round player than Forster ever was. Much better team player and a better strike rate, achieved at a consistantly higher level as well. Arguably the same can be said about Doyle too.

If he stays it will be fun watching Doyle tear up the championship...

[joe999]

and Fozzy was miles better then Doyle or Kitson or Lita or Long

What a player

Kitson is a much, much better all round player than Forster ever was. Much better team player and a better strike rate, achieved at a consistantly higher level as well. Arguably the same can be said about Doyle too.

cant say I agree

Think Fozzy could have cut it in the prem at one time, and Doyle was shite last season

but everyones entitled to an opinion

[Colchester Royal]

Fozzy didn't have the chance that Kits and Doyle had. WE don't know what he was capable of, because of so many injuries. I loved Forster as a player when i was a kid. he was my idol, (though i'm a pile of pants compared to the guy), he tore up defences with his runs and was an amazing player at seeing a goal as well. Who knows what he'd have in the Prem? Kits and Doyle are different players. You can't compare them to Forster

[loyalroyal4life]

Fozzy and Butler was a cracking strike partnership for us but its all about...... CURETON

[joe999]

all those 3 mentioned were brilliant

that Butler Free kick against Bournemouth that time..

it was Bournemouth it hink...

jeeez

[Streets]

and Fozzy was miles better then Doyle or Kitson or Lita or Long

What a player

Hos goalscoring record for us suggests otherwise. (Long excluded because he's shit)

[Jack Celliers]

and Fozzy was miles better then Doyle or Kitson or Lita or Long

What a player

Kitson is a much, much better all round player than Forster ever was. Much better team player and a better strike rate, achieved at a consistantly higher level as well. Arguably the same can be said about Doyle too.

If he stays it will be fun watching Doyle tear up the championship...

He seemed so slow last year - can't really imagining tearing up anything

[Top Flight]

Of course it is a concern. And the sad irony is that his beloved players don't show the same loyalty to him - cya Little, cheers Kitson.

I genuinely think that Coppell is scared of big name players, hence why he prefers the unkown quantity or the honest battler from Brentford. It is to his credit as a coach that he can mould these people into a good side, but once an all-conquering squad falls apart can he arrest the slump? The slide back into obscurity at Reading is similar in some ways to the Palace side he took down in 92/93; the likes of Wright and Bright - Coppell's own inspired signings - had left and were (presumably) never replaced properly.

How can a club like Palace or Reading replace players like Wright & Bright?

Those types of players are irreplaceable for clubs like ours! We get hold of those sorts of players by good fortune, when they are unknown quantities, by being in the right place at the right time to spot such talent.

That sort of fortune blesses a club like ours or Palace infrequently and inconsistently.

The reality is once a player like Wright proves his calibre at a club like Palace it becomes impossible to retain him and highly unlikely to replace him with equal quality immediately. You would need that rare and inconsistent fortune to bless you once again before you identify another player of that class for a pittance.

Its not a fault of Coppell, this is just who we are.... We are little old Reading. We have little power in the transfer market. For a couple of years we punched above our weight, but most of the time we will punch at our own weight level. Only a backer of Alexander Gaydamak or Abramovich proportions can make us heavier!

[Top Flight]

Much as I like the guy and what he has done for us I am now truly concerned that, by his own admission, Coppell can be too loyal to players. It shows in his transfer dealings (buying trusted players who have played for him before or delaying in buying anyone at all) and team selections (rarely dropping players even if not in form). We saw the consequences last year - without a doubt everyone else bought and improved whilst we were too loyal to our existing squad and we then didn't make changes when players weren't performing. This year looks to be the same and that we haven't learned from our mistakes. The question is can Steve?

2/8/00 (after leaving Palace) ""I would have been too loyal to the players who worked so hard for me last year. It needs a cold, clinical eye."

5/1/08 "I am loyal to the players who have done well to me - possibly too loyal on occasion"

29/2/08 "Maybe the accusation I may make against myself is that I have been too loyal to some players"

Fans Forum 8/5/08 "I have perhaps been too loyal at times… I have an affection for my players and there is a bond.I made the same mistake at Palace. We got to 3rd in the top flight and a Cup Final and then got relegated. Alan Smith made 2 or 3 changes that I would not have done and they went up as Champions"

11/5/08 "On reflection I've maybe been too loyal to some of these players. And maybe a fresh pair of eyes would be able to make more objective decisions than I can"

Loyalty is a great personality trait and I admire him for it, but in my view Coppell needs to listen to his own advice to be objective and act now to change it before it's too late.

The players that Coppell is loyal too are very good players!

Who is out there that we can realistically buy who is better than Doyle, Lita or Long?

Coppell's loyalty to his players is an admirable trait and is what makes him a good manager.

Coppell is loyal to very good players. If a player is not good for his squad, don't worry about Coppell's ability to be ruthless, he has shown with plenty of players, some of them his own signings that he is ready to wield the axe with ruthless might if he needs to. Think Owusu, Brooker, Forster, Williams, Morgan etc..... (Many more examples. Some are Coppells own signings, some were fans favourites)

Coppell is loyal to the people that he needs to be loyal to. That for me is what marks him out as a great boss.

His loyalty is a very good thing for Reading FC.

[Vision]

Of course it is a concern. And the sad irony is that his beloved players don't show the same loyalty to him - cya Little, cheers Kitson.

I genuinely think that Coppell is scared of big name players, hence why he prefers the unkown quantity or the honest battler from Brentford. It is to his credit as a coach that he can mould these people into a good side, but once an all-conquering squad falls apart can he arrest the slump? The slide back into obscurity at Reading is similar in some ways to the Palace side he took down in 92/93; the likes of Wright and Bright - Coppell's own inspired signings - had left and were (presumably) never replaced properly.

How can a club like Palace or Reading replace players like Wright & Bright?

Those types of players are irreplaceable for clubs like ours! We get hold of those sorts of players by good fortune, when they are unknown quantities, by being in the right place at the right time to spot such talent.

That sort of fortune blesses a club like ours or Palace infrequently and inconsistently.

The reality is once a player like Wright proves his calibre at a club like Palace it becomes impossible to retain him and highly unlikely to replace him with equal quality immediately. You would need that rare and inconsistent fortune to bless you once again before you identify another player of that class for a pittance.

Its not a fault of Coppell, this is just who we are.... We are little old Reading. We have little power in the transfer market. For a couple of years we punched above our weight, but most of the time we will punch at our own weight level. Only a backer of Alexander Gaydamak or Abramovich proportions can make us heavier!

As much as we'd like to think otherwise i agree with both of you.

The best thing that could happen now is that Coppell takes another 3 seasons and tries to build another side , his way with his type of players and on a budget which which the chairman is happy with and the club can afford.

The problem at the moment though is two-fold in that it doesn't appear that Coppell is looking at the long term himself and unless we acheive promotion this season he will be off. If that is the case then i've a serious concern as to whether it was wise for him to stay on. Also as supporters we've had a taste of the so-called Promised Land and there just won't be the patience given to anyone to build up a side over a period of time. Hell the natives are getting restless already and we've not kicked a ball yet.

As for replacing players well it would help if we had some players coming through the ranks so we don't bulk up the squad with punts from other teams. That might allow us to be a bit more indulgent in 1 or 2 major signings a year but it requires a leap of faith in using our youngsters. As things stand you only have to look at the prices fetched for Kitson and Sidwell in the market place to confirm that we are not in that market to instantly replace those players within our means.

If i think back to the 3 most successful managers under JM then all took 3 seasons to get things right. Under McGhee there were 2 pretty mediocre seasons resultwise before we roasted the League in his 3rd season but he was allowed the time to develop and build. Ditto Pardew endured a pretty torrid first few months and had his share of downs before getting to a stage where we were competing at the high end of the Championship. Then Coppell had 2 seasons of consolidation and a slow build before delivering the 2 greatest seasons in the clubs history.

To answer the original question , yes he has been too loyal to certain players but he's not a manager in the mould of a Rednapp that can instantly mould a team from a load of disparate signings, likewise we're not a club that operates that way anyway. Yes loyalty can be Coppell's achhilles heel but its also his strength as well. That applies to us a club as well though, not just him as a manager.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

Much as I like the guy and what he has done for us I am now truly concerned that, by his own admission, Coppell can be too loyal to players. It shows in his transfer dealings (buying trusted players who have played for him before or delaying in buying anyone at all) and team selections (rarely dropping players even if not in form). We saw the consequences last year - without a doubt everyone else bought and improved whilst we were too loyal to our existing squad and we then didn't make changes when players weren't performing. This year looks to be the same and that we haven't learned from our mistakes. The question is can Steve?

2/8/00 (after leaving Palace) ""I would have been too loyal to the players who worked so hard for me last year. It needs a cold, clinical eye."

5/1/08 "I am loyal to the players who have done well to me - possibly too loyal on occasion"

29/2/08 "Maybe the accusation I may make against myself is that I have been too loyal to some players"

Fans Forum 8/5/08 "I have perhaps been too loyal at times… I have an affection for my players and there is a bond.I made the same mistake at Palace. We got to 3rd in the top flight and a Cup Final and then got relegated. Alan Smith made 2 or 3 changes that I would not have done and they went up as Champions"

11/5/08 "On reflection I've maybe been too loyal to some of these players. And maybe a fresh pair of eyes would be able to make more objective decisions than I can"

Loyalty is a great personality trait and I admire him for it, but in my view Coppell needs to listen to his own advice to be objective and act now to change it before it's too late.

The players that Coppell is loyal too are very good players!

Who is out there that we can realistically buy who is better than Doyle, Lita or Long?

Coppell's loyalty to his players is an admirable trait and is what makes him a good manager.

Coppell is loyal to very good players. If a player is not good for his squad, don't worry about Coppell's ability to be ruthless, he has shown with plenty of players, some of them his own signings that he is ready to wield the axe with ruthless might if he needs to. Think Owusu, Brooker, Forster, Williams, Morgan etc..... (Many more examples. Some are Coppells own signings, some were fans favourites)

Coppell is loyal to the people that he needs to be loyal to. That for me is what marks him out as a great boss.

His loyalty is a very good thing for Reading FC.

His loyalty to under performing players and refusal to replace them with new signings is why we got relegated.

There's a big difference between loyalty and burying your head in the sand.

[Top Flight]

Much as I like the guy and what he has done for us I am now truly concerned that, by his own admission, Coppell can be too loyal to players. It shows in his transfer dealings (buying trusted players who have played for him before or delaying in buying anyone at all) and team selections (rarely dropping players even if not in form). We saw the consequences last year - without a doubt everyone else bought and improved whilst we were too loyal to our existing squad and we then didn't make changes when players weren't performing. This year looks to be the same and that we haven't learned from our mistakes. The question is can Steve?

2/8/00 (after leaving Palace) ""I would have been too loyal to the players who worked so hard for me last year. It needs a cold, clinical eye."

5/1/08 "I am loyal to the players who have done well to me - possibly too loyal on occasion"

29/2/08 "Maybe the accusation I may make against myself is that I have been too loyal to some players"

Fans Forum 8/5/08 "I have perhaps been too loyal at times… I have an affection for my players and there is a bond.I made the same mistake at Palace. We got to 3rd in the top flight and a Cup Final and then got relegated. Alan Smith made 2 or 3 changes that I would not have done and they went up as Champions"

11/5/08 "On reflection I've maybe been too loyal to some of these players. And maybe a fresh pair of eyes would be able to make more objective decisions than I can"

Loyalty is a great personality trait and I admire him for it, but in my view Coppell needs to listen to his own advice to be objective and act now to change it before it's too late.

The players that Coppell is loyal too are very good players!

Who is out there that we can realistically buy who is better than Doyle, Lita or Long?

Coppell's loyalty to his players is an admirable trait and is what makes him a good manager.

Coppell is loyal to very good players. If a player is not good for his squad, don't worry about Coppell's ability to be ruthless, he has shown with plenty of players, some of them his own signings that he is ready to wield the axe with ruthless might if he needs to. Think Owusu, Brooker, Forster, Williams, Morgan etc..... (Many more examples. Some are Coppells own signings, some were fans favourites)

Coppell is loyal to the people that he needs to be loyal to. That for me is what marks him out as a great boss.

His loyalty is a very good thing for Reading FC.

His loyalty to under performing players and refusal to replace them with new signings is why we got relegated.

There's a big difference between loyalty and burying your head in the sand.

Yeah, cause we could have just gone out into the transfer market and spent loads of money and brought in a whole load of players who were way better than what we already had. Players who would have made an impact in the Premier league.

With Madejski's backing we easily could have done that. Sure!

[brendywendy]

kitson, doyle, lita>>>>>>>>>>fozzy, butler, cureton


love them as i did.

[Skyline]

I would say that Coppell's loyalty to his players isn't only now becoming a concern, I'd say it was a concern for large parts of last season. I mentioned it on the Vote of Confidence thread, but it bears repeating - when Coppell came out and said that he finally felt able to change the team after 8 consecutive losses, it showed all-to-clearly that his loyalty to certain players had gone too far. Any manager who doesn't feel he can change a losing team because it might upset some of the regular starters, really has to consider if he's gone as far as he can with the job.

He'll always be an RFC legend for what he did in 2005/6 and 2006/7, but maybe, just maybe, he should have left at the end of last season and let us bring in someone else. People were saying that a new manager would disrupt the team and want to bring in their own people and new players, but it looks like that's what is going to be needed anyway, and a new manager wouldn't have had the (apparently misguided) loyalty to the current squad.