Shane Long

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cmonurz
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Re: Shane Long

by cmonurz » 05 Feb 2009 11:01

Of course he should go on loan. I've made my mind up about Long, but I can see the point of view of someone who would suggest we don't really know what he can do. He has never played regular first-team football (he didn't at Cork iirc), and has never scored goals consistently.

Get in to a League One or Two club and see how he goes.

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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 05 Feb 2009 11:15

Skyline
Snowball Oh for Pete's sake, will you learn to use the oxf*rd quote facility? It's quite easy - see the bloody great button with 'QUOTE' written on it at the top right of each message? Hit that and the board will do all the work for you.


When you learn to ask nicely, sweetheart.


The funny thing is, you don't even realise how stupid it makes you look, do you? I mean, you must actually spend the time to either c&p the bits you want and surround them with italic tags, or possibly even worse you hit the quote button and then replace the quote tags with italic ones. Why spend all that extra time when the board does it for you - time you could spend dragging up even more stats to 'prove' that Long is a good footballer.

If your posts weren't so funny (unintentionally so I suspect) you'd be straight in the Ignore bucket...



and look how much time you've just wasted talking about something that's totally irrelevant.

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Re: Shane Long

by Woodcote Royal » 05 Feb 2009 11:36

cmonurz Of course he should go on loan. I've made my mind up about Long, but I can see the point of view of someone who would suggest we don't really know what he can do. He has never played regular first-team football (he didn't at Cork iirc), and has never scored goals consistently.

Get in to a League One or Two club and see how he goes.


:mrgreen:


Is it really so hard for Lita's dim witted fan club to understand that WHEN/IF their idol starts to produce the goods sending Long on loan might be an option?

I would have liked to have seen us sign another striker but Long's less than impressive record in front of goal STILL remains better than Lita's pathetic 2 league goals in 2 years for this club.

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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 05 Feb 2009 11:52

in .5/1/1/.5 seasons (3 in total) Shane has scored 11 league goals playing almost exclusively as a sub

in 1/1/1.5 seasons (but he was away a bit) Lita, with may, many starts (he had more in his first season than Long has had altogether in his RFC career) Lita has scored 20

Why can't people see past their rose-coloured glasses and look at facts? Plus Lita is 2 years older than Long


Long in goals per minute played for RFC is twice as prolific as Lita

How many extended runs has Lita had? Has Long ever had a REAL chance?

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Re: Shane Long

by SteveRoyal » 05 Feb 2009 11:59

Snowball, is Shane Long your boyfriend or something? :?


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Re: Shane Long

by Hoop Blah » 05 Feb 2009 12:01

Snowball in .5/1/1/.5 seasons (3 in total) Shane has scored 11 league goals playing almost exclusively as a sub

in 1/1/1.5 seasons (but he was away a bit) Lita, with may, many starts (he had more in his first season than Long has had altogether in his RFC career) Lita has scored 20

Why can't people see past their rose-coloured glasses and look at facts? Plus Lita is 2 years older than Long


Long in goals per minute played for RFC is twice as prolific as Lita

How many extended runs has Lita had? Has Long ever had a REAL chance?


Still doesn't change the fact that Lita, who I don't personally like or rate very highly at all, is the better fooballer and better forward of the two!

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Re: Shane Long

by Man Friday » 05 Feb 2009 12:29

Hoop Blah
Snowball in .5/1/1/.5 seasons (3 in total) Shane has scored 11 league goals playing almost exclusively as a sub

in 1/1/1.5 seasons (but he was away a bit) Lita, with may, many starts (he had more in his first season than Long has had altogether in his RFC career) Lita has scored 20

Why can't people see past their rose-coloured glasses and look at facts? Plus Lita is 2 years older than Long


Long in goals per minute played for RFC is twice as prolific as Lita

How many extended runs has Lita had? Has Long ever had a REAL chance?


Still doesn't change the fact that Lita, who I don't personally like or rate very highly at all, is the better fooballer and better forward of the two!

Deal in facts - like minutes per goal, etc - please to arrive at who's the best forward/footballer.

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Re: Shane Long

by Huntley & Palmer » 05 Feb 2009 12:30

Snowball playing almost exclusively as a sub

Therein endeth the thread. Cheers

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Re: Shane Long

by The Positive One! » 05 Feb 2009 12:34

Well said Snowball!


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Re: Shane Long

by Woodcote Royal » 05 Feb 2009 12:36

Hoop Blah
Snowball in .5/1/1/.5 seasons (3 in total) Shane has scored 11 league goals playing almost exclusively as a sub

in 1/1/1.5 seasons (but he was away a bit) Lita, with may, many starts (he had more in his first season than Long has had altogether in his RFC career) Lita has scored 20

Why can't people see past their rose-coloured glasses and look at facts? Plus Lita is 2 years older than Long


Long in goals per minute played for RFC is twice as prolific as Lita

How many extended runs has Lita had? Has Long ever had a REAL chance?


Still doesn't change the fact that Lita, who I don't personally like or rate very highly at all, is the better fooballer and better forward of the two!


And nothing you say here changes the fact that Long has been the better striker for us over the last 2 years with Lita's contribution not being worthy of the term.

When Lita can surpass Long's poor record his fan club will have a point. Meanwhile, the above is yet more unjustified hot air.

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Re: Shane Long

by Ian Royal » 05 Feb 2009 12:57

Except Long hasn't really showed many idicators he can do any better, whereas Lita HAS done considerably better, and could quite easily return to that form, without the need for a run of 20 games to learn how to make decisions and control the ball.

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Re: Shane Long

by Hoop Blah » 05 Feb 2009 13:02

Woodcote Royal
Hoop Blah
Snowball in .5/1/1/.5 seasons (3 in total) Shane has scored 11 league goals playing almost exclusively as a sub

in 1/1/1.5 seasons (but he was away a bit) Lita, with may, many starts (he had more in his first season than Long has had altogether in his RFC career) Lita has scored 20

Why can't people see past their rose-coloured glasses and look at facts? Plus Lita is 2 years older than Long


Long in goals per minute played for RFC is twice as prolific as Lita

How many extended runs has Lita had? Has Long ever had a REAL chance?


Still doesn't change the fact that Lita, who I don't personally like or rate very highly at all, is the better fooballer and better forward of the two!


And nothing you say here changes the fact that Long has been the better striker for us over the last 2 years with Lita's contribution not being worthy of the term.

When Lita can surpass Long's poor record his fan club will have a point. Meanwhile, the above is yet more unjustified hot air.


I didn't say that Long hadn't been the better striker for us over the last 2 years. All I've said is that Lita is the better player.

The fact we've not got the best out of him, for various reasons such as he's not been good enough to get in the side, is a shame as he's got more ability than the player who's kept him out of the team/squad and caused him to go off the boil and end up on loan.

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Re: Shane Long

by Muskrat » 05 Feb 2009 13:23

Neither are world beaters but both can be good on their day. Same as most strikers in this division I'd say.

Long is a good impact player but has a poor first touch and Lita is a better instictive finisher but falls over too much and sometimes makes the wrong decisions when it come to releasing the ball.

Meanwhile we've got Doyle (quite often touted as the best forward in the division and I agree) and Noel Hunt who has made a big impact and I think is Doyles best strike partner.

Put the four together and Coppell has a good blend of skills and ability.

Can't see what all the fuss is about.


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Re: Shane Long

by Terminal Boardom » 05 Feb 2009 13:31

ll it takes is one injury and another suspension and we are down to bare bones. SSC prefers 4 strikers and that is good enough for me. Unfortunately, very few of us ever get the chance to see what happens in training. Someone will be suggesting that Bikey plays up front next!

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Re: Shane Long

by Stranded » 05 Feb 2009 13:59

The only indicator I would use at the moment, is that following an injury to one of our first choice strikers, the manager of Reading FC felt tha Lita offered a better option starting the game than Long.

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Re: Shane Long

by Skyline » 05 Feb 2009 14:14

Snowball
Skyline
Snowball ...

...

...

Professor 'Enry 'Iggins By George I think she's got it !
Last edited by Skyline on 05 Feb 2009 14:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shane Long

by Skyline » 05 Feb 2009 14:20

BTW, someone asked earlier on in the thread about the number of goals that are scored in the last 10 minutes of a match.

I did a q&d analysis of the last three full seasons of the Championship and the current season up until last weekend. Although I don't have the numbers to hand (I can soon redo them) I do recall that the number of goals scored in each 5 minute block were fairly constant, until you got to 86-90 when it shot up (something like ~280 in blocks 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, etc, but ~500 in 86-90).

Now of course you have to take account of 'minute 90' actually being somewhat longer than 1 minute because of added time, which probably averages around the 3min mark at the end of a game. However, you'd expect 'minute 45' to be similarly affected, but I don't recall there being a similar jump in the number of goals scored in block 41-45.

I'll try and redo the figures and post them up if people are interested.

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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 05 Feb 2009 14:25

Hoop Blah
Snowball in .5/1/1/.5 seasons (3 in total) Shane has scored 11 league goals playing almost exclusively as a sub

in 1/1/1.5 seasons (but he was away a bit) Lita, with may, many starts (he had more in his first season than Long has had altogether in his RFC career) Lita has scored 20

Why can't people see past their rose-coloured glasses and look at facts? Plus Lita is 2 years older than Long


Long in goals per minute played for RFC is twice as prolific as Lita

How many extended runs has Lita had? Has Long ever had a REAL chance?


Still doesn't change the fact that Lita, who I don't personally like or rate very highly at all, is the better fooballer and better forward of the two!




Better Footballer?

There are two judgments to make of a striker. Goals and assists

and maybe space-making for others.

On goals per minute Long beats Lita two to one

On total assists and per minute Long beats Lita.

Long is also FAR less selfish, eg the goal he gave Cisse
versus the stupid selfishness of Lita at Swansea when it
was 1-0 and he could have given Doyle an easy chance


What does "best footballer" actually MEAN?

John Aldridge wasn't a great footballer. He just scored more goals than any other UK player in histroy

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Re: Shane Long

by Huntley & Palmer » 05 Feb 2009 15:23

Snowball John Aldridge wasn't a great footballer. He just scored more goals than any other UK player in histroy

Err, no he hasn't. Anyway, how do your pretty irrlevant stats explain Leroy starting in front of Long at QPR?

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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 05 Feb 2009 15:23

Ian Royal Except Long hasn't really showed many indicators he can do any better, whereas Lita HAS done considerably better, and could quite easily return to that form, without the need for a run of 20 games to learn how to make decisions and control the ball.


Lita

Season 1 11 goals,
Season 2 7 goals,
Season 3 1 90th minute goal (against a crap side when it was already 3-0
Season 4 1 90th minute goal (against a crap side when it was already 3-0

Yes Lita had a little run at Norwich, 7 goals in 16
but three of those were in a hat-trick. The other games were 4 goals in 15

and that STILL doesn't match Long's 3 in the few appearances he's managed

LONG "shows" because he's only just 22 years old, strikers improve rapidly
when they get a little more mature. That 2-year advantage of Lita's (plus
almost one extra season at this level and two in League One are HUGE

This is Lita's SIXTH full-season. You can pretty much guess what he is and how much further he will go

Long has started 20 times and been sub 65 times for 11 goals
Lita has started 126 times and been sub 65 times for 61 goals (31 in lower leagues)

However over half of his goals are at a lower level

32 (15) 08 goals Premiership LITA
16 (34) 05 goals Premiership LONG 62.5% of Lita's goals in 50% of the starts

50 (07) 21 goals Championship LITA Long has started 12.5 times as often as Long for only 3.5 times the goals
04 (31) 06 goals Championship LONG

If we call a sub appearance an average of 10% of a game.

33.5 games 8 goals = 1 in 4.2 Premiership Games LITA
19.4 games 5 goals = 1 in 3.8 Premiership games LONG Long has a better Premiership record than Lita

50.7 games 21 goals = 1 in 2.41 Championship games LITA
07.1 games 06 goals = 1 in 1.18 Championship games LONG Long is TWICE as prolific in the Championship


So

LITA

016 (00) 07 goals 2008-9 Norwich Championship
004 (03) 01 goals 2008-9 Reading Championship
010 (04) 01 goals 2007-8 Reading Premiership
008 (00) 03 goals 2007-8 Charlton Championship
022 (11) 07 goals 2006-7 Reading Premiership
022 (04) 11 goals 2005-6 Reading Championship (Long's first season, 18 years old, Debut December)
042 (02) 24 goals 2004-5 Bristol LEAGUE ONE
002 (25) 05 goals 2003-4 Bristol LEAGUE ONE
000 (16) 02 goals 2002-3 Bristol LEAGUE ONE

126 (65) 60 goals.

32 (15) 08 goals Premiership
50 (07) 21 goals Championship
44 (43) 31 goals League One


08 goals in Premiership
21 goals in Championship
31 goals League One

LONG

03 (21) 03 goals Championship
07 (22) 03 goals Premiership
09 (12) 02 goals Premiership
01 (10) 03 goals Championship

16 (34) 05 goals Premiership
04 (31) 06 goals Championship

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