Shane Long

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Re: Shane Long

by Huntley & Palmer » 05 Feb 2009 15:26

So all that proves is that Long is a better sub than he is starter. As everyone has been saying for pages and pages :lol:

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Re: Shane Long

by Woodcote Royal » 05 Feb 2009 15:36

Ian Royal Except Long hasn't really showed many idicators he can do any better, whereas Lita HAS done considerably better, and could quite easily return to that form, without the need for a run of 20 games to learn how to make decisions and control the ball.


It's 2 years since Lita has done any better than Long and whatever the latter still needs to know, he's clearly learnt to make a better impact in a shorter space of time than Lita.

All Leroy has to do to be genuinley ahead of Long is score about 5 goals a season.....................if he can't manage that he's no better and, more importantly, not good enough to be our 3rd striker.

He had a full 90 minutes against QPR (and how Long would have loved to have had the same chance) yet despite this perceived superiority he couldn't add to his meagre total.

What should that tell you? That Noel Hunt should get his place sooner rather than later.
Last edited by Woodcote Royal on 05 Feb 2009 15:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shane Long

by Huntley & Palmer » 05 Feb 2009 15:38

I don't see anyone stating that Lita should be our second choice striker though. So the point is pretty irrelevant. All Leroy has to do to be in front of Long is be fit and willing to play, which is how it should be

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Re: Shane Long

by heathrow royal » 05 Feb 2009 15:43

Huntley & Palmer I don't see anyone stating that Lita should be our second choice striker though. So the point is pretty irrelevant. All Leroy has to do to be in front of Long is be fit and willing to play, which is how it should be


I agree

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Re: Shane Long

by Woodcote Royal » 05 Feb 2009 15:45

Huntley & Palmer I don't see anyone stating that Lita should be our second choice striker though. So the point is pretty irrelevant. All Leroy has to do to be in front of Long is be fit and willing to play, which is how it should be


Back in the real world, he has to score more goals than Long whilst making a similar impact from the bench, because that's where those outside the top 2 are going to spend most of their time.

One goal is a start but not much else.


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Re: Shane Long

by Royal Lady » 05 Feb 2009 15:48

You can hardly complain that Leroy didn't score against QPR when our most prolific striker didn't either. :roll:

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Re: Shane Long

by Hoop Blah » 05 Feb 2009 15:52

Snowball Better Footballer?

There are two judgments to make of a striker. Goals and assists

and maybe space-making for others.


And in those three lines you've summed up why all your stats end up being pretty meaningless, it seems you just don't understand the modern game beyond a pretty basic level.

As for John Aldridge, I'd say your right he wasn't the best footballer in the world but he was an excellent goalscorer. I remember he or one of his teammates joking that he was the worst player at 5 a-side but just the most lethal finisher when it mattered.

Of cource Aldridge played at his peak 20 years ago and there isn't much room in the modern game for a successful side to play with such forwards as Aldridge, Lineker, Cureton or the young lad at Blackburn Derbyshire.

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Re: Shane Long

by Arf_Royal » 05 Feb 2009 16:38

Huntley & Palmer I don't see anyone stating that Lita should be our second choice striker though. So the point is pretty irrelevant. All Leroy has to do to be in front of Long is be fit and willing to play, which is how it should be

'greed.

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Re: Shane Long

by Woodcote Royal » 05 Feb 2009 17:07

Royal Lady You can hardly complain that Leroy didn't score against QPR when our most prolific striker didn't either. :roll:


I'm not even suggesting he had that bad a game just that this was yet another match in which he was given the chance to show his fans that he is so much better than "no talent" Long yet he drew another blank whereas as Shane keeps chipping in with the odd goal from the bench.

Both players should count themselves lucky not to be fighting it out for 4th or 5th spot and Lita's fan club need to wake up and smell the coffee.


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Re: Shane Long

by Ian Royal » 05 Feb 2009 17:08

Snowball
Ian Royal Except Long hasn't really showed many indicators he can do any better, whereas Lita HAS done considerably better, and could quite easily return to that form, without the need for a run of 20 games to learn how to make decisions and control the ball.


Blah blah blah [lots of meaningless numbers, statistics and example games]
Blah blah blah [lots of extremely flawed analysis of meanigless numbers stats and example games specifically quoted to "prove" my point when they are taken out of context and don't do anything of the sort.


Edited to show what I see in your post.

There is more to being a striker than goals and assists.

Kitson was not an especially noteworthy scorer of goals in our history, nor gainer of assists, Good record yes, but not so great it stood out heads and shoulders above everyone else.

But the unquantifiable parts of his game (without prozone and some professionals who know a damnsite more about what they're doing than you) makes him easily one of the best 5 strikers we've had. Arguably the best in the last 25 years. Although Doyle is putting in a good effort to overtake him in that way.
Last edited by Ian Royal on 05 Feb 2009 17:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shane Long

by Woodcote Royal » 05 Feb 2009 17:15

Kitson and Doyle both contribute more than just scoring goals but you are having a laugh if you think this applies to Lita.

When on form, Leroy scores goals, that's it.

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Re: Shane Long

by Huntley & Palmer » 05 Feb 2009 17:19

Woodcote Royal
Royal Lady You can hardly complain that Leroy didn't score against QPR when our most prolific striker didn't either. :roll:


I'm not even suggesting he had that bad a game just that this was yet another match in which he was given the chance to show his fans that he is so much better than "no talent" Long yet he drew another blank whereas as Shane keeps chipping in with the odd goal from the bench.

Both players should count themselves lucky not to be fighting it out for 4th or 5th spot and Lita's fan club need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Lita has far bigger respect amongst the fans, as witnessed by the reaction of the crowd at home when he has come on since his return from Norwich. Long appearing raises nothing more than a polite clap, he doesn't offer the excitement nor the anticipation of Leroy whether starting or as a sub. Leory wants to start games, whereas Long is happy to see out a career on the bench of RFC. What brilliant aspirations :roll:

So you and the handful of other idiots that think Long somehow deserves more of a chance, over and above the hundreds of sub appearances he has managed to muster in his career here, know more than Coppell and the vast majority of RFC fans. :lol:

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Re: Shane Long

by Ian Royal » 05 Feb 2009 17:21

Woodcote Royal Kitson and Doyle both contribute more than just scoring goals but you are having a laugh if you think this applies to Lita.

When on form, Leroy scores goals, that's it.


I think there is more to it than that, but not so much as what Lita does, as how the other team react to him. When he's in form and firing, he can hold the ball up well (as opposed to fall over), even with the falling over he wins some decent freekicks, which if Hunt's delivery returns could be almost as useful as goals or assists.

Lita, even at some of his shittest, like against Newcastle at home last year, caused a defence a problems and worked openings. He may start falling over a lot and ambling a round. But for me, importantly he doesn't get petulant ON THE PITCH.

Whereas you see it in Long all the time. When refs decisions aren't going his way, his head goes down, he sulks. He mimes throwing the ball in an opposition player's face (at least once). He goes into challenges rashly.

A useful sub at this level, but he doesn't have what it takes to make it as a regular or even a Prem reserve IMO. He should leave in the summer, he had his chance to show what he had at the start of the season and he was so poor he got only a couple of games. Since he's not done a great deal better.


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Re: Shane Long

by Hoop Blah » 05 Feb 2009 17:24

Woodcote Royal Kitson and Doyle both contribute more than just scoring goals but you are having a laugh if you think this applies to Lita.

When on form, Leroy scores goals, that's it.


I agree to a certain extent, and I'm not really part of this Lita fan club your so fond of, but I think the point some of us are trying to make here is that Lita is more capable of, and generally does more, good work in general play than Long.

Lita lets himself down a lot when he tries to win free kicks or unnecessarily over complicates things during games.

Long is the more adept at coming off the bench and making some form of impact though. He's basic skills are not as good as Lita's though and for that reason he struggles when he starts games or plays for longer periods against half decent defenders.

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Re: Shane Long

by Hoop Blah » 05 Feb 2009 17:31

Ian Royal But for me, importantly he doesn't get petulant ON THE PITCH.


I know it's probably difficult to see from the wrong end of the radio but Lita shows more petulance than the rest of the team put together.

You can often see him strutting and posturing and giving it 'the big'un' whilst trying to muscle defenders or win free kicks or talk to the ref or just his general demenour. His silly little head butt against Charlton was a petulant act that luckily didn't see him sent off there and then.

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Re: Shane Long

by Royal1983 » 05 Feb 2009 17:45

Arf_Royal
Huntley & Palmer I don't see anyone stating that Lita should be our second choice striker though. So the point is pretty irrelevant. All Leroy has to do to be in front of Long is be fit and willing to play, which is how it should be

'greed.


If Doyle or N.Hunt are not performing then they should be put after Lita!

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Re: Shane Long

by Ian Royal » 05 Feb 2009 17:47

Hoop Blah
Ian Royal But for me, importantly he doesn't get petulant ON THE PITCH.


I know it's probably difficult to see from the wrong end of the radio but Lita shows more petulance than the rest of the team put together.

You can often see him strutting and posturing and giving it 'the big'un' whilst trying to muscle defenders or win free kicks or talk to the ref or just his general demenour. His silly little head butt against Charlton was a petulant act that luckily didn't see him sent off there and then.


Get over yourself, I do see games thank you.

Virtually every game I've seen Long has thrown a stro at some point. Lita may ge frustrated, but whenever I've seen him he usually at leasts keeps going, rather than sulking.

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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 05 Feb 2009 21:58

So you and the handful of other idiots that think Long somehow deserves more of a chance, over and above the hundreds of sub appearances he has managed to muster in his career here, know more than Coppell and the vast majority of RFC fans.

The above is a perfect example of the moronic input from too many on this list

Can you COUNT? When did SIXTY-FIVE become HUNDREDS?

The lad has started in the league a total of 20 times and appeared as sub in the league 65 times, many of those appearances being for less than ten minutes

Here's a lesson. 20+65 =85

Even if you add every cup game he has only started 34 games and been sub 65 times

Another lesson. 34+65 = 99. 99 is LESS THAN ONE hundred

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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 05 Feb 2009 22:11

Ian Royal
Whereas you see it in Long all the time. When refs decisions aren't going his way, his head goes down, he sulks. He mimes throwing the ball in an opposition player's face (at least once). He goes into challenges rashly.



Agreed, look at all those RED CARDS and YELLOW CARDS he gets.

For example, this season

4 Rosenior (plus one red)
4 Bikey (plus one red)

2 Kebe (plus one RED)

Yellows
4 Armstrong
4 Lita
4 Doyle
4 S Hunt
3 Gunnarson
3 N Hunt
3 Karacan <<<<
2 Cisse
2 Matejovsky <<<
2 SHANE LONG (disgusting discipline, rash tackles

1 Harper, Ingi, Pearce, Henry, Doobs

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Re: Shane Long

by SCIAG » 05 Feb 2009 22:25

Huntley & Palmer Lita has far bigger respect amongst the fans, as witnessed by the reaction of the crowd at home when he has come on since his return from Norwich. Long appearing raises nothing more than a polite clap, he doesn't offer the excitement nor the anticipation of Leroy whether starting or as a sub.

That means nowt. I raise Trevor Senior again- I bet he'd get a rousing reception off the bench, but he'd do rubbish because his legs have gone. It's the same with Lita- he gets that reception because he contributed something to the team a few years ago. Okay, I exaggerate slightly, Lita is probably a better option than Senior atm, but it's a similar scenario- Lita contributes nothing any more, but remains a fans favourite for his goals tally in 05-06 and 07-08, even though he was dreadful for large portions of both seasons.

If Leroy ever hits form for us he should be in the first team, but until then Long is the lesser of two evils.

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